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Author Topic:   Portable Battery Packs

RonB posted 04-21-2004 11:45 PM ET (US)
With the popularity of portable battery packs and their use as a redundant or emergency battery backup to the batterie(s) used on the boat, I have a question about their use.
While I keep one on my boat, I've never had to use it to start my Mercury. However, if I did, how would I go about it and accomplish that?
My two batteries are stored under the floor of my center console, snugly stored in their battery boxes.
If seas were heavy and conditions nasty, the thought of pulling everything out of my console to get to them makes me a little uneasy.
SInce my emergency battery system comes with a male 12 volt outlet to male 12 volt outlet cable, could I jump start my Mercury through the cigarette lighter on my console? That seems more agreeable to the afore mentioned task of getting to my batteries. Anyone have any real life experiences they could share.
Any thoughts?
Ron
jimh posted 04-22-2004 12:12 AM ET (US)
Ronb--I am not at all familiar with the battery packs you describe. Generally it seems ill-advised (as you note) to attempt to accomplish re-wiring of batteries while at sea and in emergency conditions. This is why most all boats that have dual battery installations also have a battery selector switch.
The current drain of an electrical motor with enough power to turn over an outboard motor is generally far greater than the capacity of a "cigarette-lighter" style outlet.
It would be helpful if you mentioned the horsepower and model of your outboard motor.
AQUANUT posted 04-22-2004 01:21 AM ET (US)
I have a battery pack as described I obtained from snap-on.
I use it to jump boats often...by using the cigarette lighter to cigarette lighter corf you are esentially placing the battery pack in parrallel with you cranking battery for your engine...ohmns law says current in parallel is additive...and voltage in parrallel is common.

meaning that the voltage for vranking the engine remains 12 volts...however the current measured in ampheres increases..{if the voltage is low on your engines battery, then the current is too...they are realtive in a battery}
so the increase in current[amps] is brought back to near normal from the LOW battery to the engine.
high voltage can cause damage to electrical componets...24 volts thru a circuit designed for 12 is bad....however if the voltage stays @ 12 volts...the loads.{engine starter}... will only draw what it is designed to draw in ampheres[current]...
example....there are batteries with 550 cca and batteries with 1000 cold cranking amps [cca].. they do not damage the starter because of the difference in amps...its the voltage that must remain the same...

remember...current in series is common
voltage in series is additive 12 +12= 24v

current in parrallel is additive
voltage in parrallel is common
cigarette lighters are wired in parrallel
AQUANUT posted 04-22-2004 01:24 AM ET (US)
I have a battery pack as described I obtained from snap-on.
I use it to jump boats often...by using the cigarette lighter to cigarette lighter corf you are esentially placing the battery pack in parrallel with you cranking battery for your engine...ohmns law says current in parallel is additive...and voltage in parrallel is common.

meaning that the voltage for vranking the engine remains 12 volts...however the current measured in ampheres increases..{if the voltage is low on your engines battery, then the current is too...they are realtive in a battery}
so the increase in current[amps] is brought back to near normal from the LOW battery to the engine.
high voltage can cause damage to electrical componets...24 volts thru a circuit designed for 12 is bad....however if the voltage stays @ 12 volts...the loads.{engine starter}... will only draw what it is designed to draw in ampheres[current]...
example....there are batteries with 550 cca and batteries with 1000 cold cranking amps [cca].. they do not damage the starter because of the difference in amps...its the voltage that must remain the same...

remember...current in series is common
voltage in series is additive 12 +12= 24v

current in parrallel is additive
voltage in parrallel is common
cigarette lighters are wired in parrallel
davej14 posted 04-22-2004 02:40 AM ET (US)
i wouldn't rely on the cig. adapter as a plug for starting up with a spare battery pack. it probably has a ckt breaker good fo about 20A max.. cranking the motor will likely exceed this rating and simply trip the breaker (and save you from frying the wiring harness).
if this is a real concern then you should hard wire a connector from either battery that would mate directly with the plug on your spare pack. that way you wouldn't have to open the battery case to access it in rough seas. be sure to use marine quality oil resistant wire of adequate size if you go this route.
Ventura16 posted 04-22-2004 10:36 AM ET (US)
I have one of these portable power packs. It is indispensable for starting boats and other devices whose batteries have gone dead when there is no AC power readily available. My next-door neighbors must have borrowed it a couple of dozen times last summer since their boat battery would go dead every few days...obviously, their charging system and alternator weren't working properly.
I just hook it up to the starting battery terminals as if I were jumping a car...give the ignition a crank...and then remove the cables once the engine is running. I think the current draw through a 12V receptacle would be excessive.
Tom
RonB posted 04-22-2004 11:43 AM ET (US)
Thanks folks,
Jim...2000 Merc 135 Opti (in my profile).
Never had to jump start it, just wondering how I would if I needed to.
Looks like the only way to do it (unless I rigged something up) would be to remove items from center console, lift floor board, open battery box for Battery "A" (make sure Perko switch is on "A"), connect cables from battery pack to battery terminals and attempt to start.
This is my assumption, am I wrong? The thing that gets me is why does my battery pack provide a male to male 12 volt cigarette adapter cable? I guess I should read the manual. The pack is dexcribed as a marine battery pack purchased from Boaters World.
Ron
Ventura16 posted 04-22-2004 01:19 PM ET (US)
The 12V male to male connector would be a great way to CHARGE the portable pack from a vehicle accessory plug.
Tom
CHRISWEIGHT posted 04-22-2004 03:27 PM ET (US)
Ron
I am assuming that you already have twin batteries in the consol which in all honesty will start the boat even in emergency, even if number two is a deep cycle battery.
These power packs have very limited capability and will only provide limited current for very short periods which are also subject to voltage drop over the connecting leads.
Also bear in mind that for a power pack to help significantly it will need to have been very recently charged and connected in parallel with very substatial cables.
regards chris
RonB posted 04-22-2004 03:43 PM ET (US)
Tom,
Your right, I guess that's what the cable is for. Presently, if I do charge it I use an A/C adapter that I plug in the wall at home which has a male 12 volt connector that plugs into the battery pack.
Chris,
Yes I do have two batteries. Sometimes I run on Perko switch "A", sometimes "B" or sometimes "All" which I imagine is both. The 135 Opti does a great job keeping both batteries well charged. And your right Chris...I've never had a problem, but "chance favors a prepared mind" (forgot who said that, maybe Jimh or one of the Classic guys remembers).
Ron
andygere posted 04-23-2004 11:31 AM ET (US)
For those not familiar with them, the battery packs described in this thread are a self contained unit with a 12 volt battery, charger and jumper cables, housed in a heavy duty plastic enclosure with a handle to make carrying easier. They are popular for jump starting cars and boats, and carrying one allows you to jump start a vehicle or boat without another vehicle or boat to jump from. Many of them also have a 12 volt cigarette lighter style outlet, which can be used to power or charge small electrical appliances such as cell phones or notebook computers. When the internal battery gets depleted, you simply plug it into an ac outlet and recharge it with the built in charger. These are a convenient bit of insurance for any car or boat, although I agree that jump starting a boat in rolling seas would be less than ideal. The battery pack I own also contains a small air compressor suitable for adding air to tires and inflating air mattresses. It cost about $59 at Costco, and is a handy little device. I use it frequently to put air in my truck and trailer tires, which is much more convenient than taking the entire rig to a service station.
One way to make jump starting at sea a little easier would be to use a battery box that is pre wired with external terminals. Cabela's sells one for $39, with the following description.
"Power Station Battery Box
This unique battery box features a built in battery meter that allows you to determine battery condition at the touch of a button. External connectors provide easy accessory hook-up and eliminate the hassle of opening the box to charge the battery or access the terminals. A plug-in Power Port socket allows use of common 12-volt accessories. The circuit breaker removes the annoyance of fuses."
I would have provided a specific hot link, but it was about 500 characters long and would have screwed up the format of this page. Just go to http://www.cabelas.com and look under Boating > Boating Accessories > Battery Accessories

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Author	Topic: Portable Battery Packs
RonB	posted 04-21-2004 11:45 PM ET (US) With the popularity of portable battery packs and their use as a redundant or emergency battery backup to the batterie(s) used on the boat, I have a question about their use. While I keep one on my boat, I've never had to use it to start my Mercury. However, if I did, how would I go about it and accomplish that? My two batteries are stored under the floor of my center console, snugly stored in their battery boxes. If seas were heavy and conditions nasty, the thought of pulling everything out of my console to get to them makes me a little uneasy. SInce my emergency battery system comes with a male 12 volt outlet to male 12 volt outlet cable, could I jump start my Mercury through the cigarette lighter on my console? That seems more agreeable to the afore mentioned task of getting to my batteries. Anyone have any real life experiences they could share. Any thoughts? Ron
jimh	posted 04-22-2004 12:12 AM ET (US) Ronb--I am not at all familiar with the battery packs you describe. Generally it seems ill-advised (as you note) to attempt to accomplish re-wiring of batteries while at sea and in emergency conditions. This is why most all boats that have dual battery installations also have a battery selector switch. The current drain of an electrical motor with enough power to turn over an outboard motor is generally far greater than the capacity of a "cigarette-lighter" style outlet. It would be helpful if you mentioned the horsepower and model of your outboard motor.
AQUANUT	posted 04-22-2004 01:21 AM ET (US) I have a battery pack as described I obtained from snap-on. I use it to jump boats often...by using the cigarette lighter to cigarette lighter corf you are esentially placing the battery pack in parrallel with you cranking battery for your engine...ohmns law says current in parallel is additive...and voltage in parrallel is common. meaning that the voltage for vranking the engine remains 12 volts...however the current measured in ampheres increases..{if the voltage is low on your engines battery, then the current is too...they are realtive in a battery} so the increase in current[amps] is brought back to near normal from the LOW battery to the engine. high voltage can cause damage to electrical componets...24 volts thru a circuit designed for 12 is bad....however if the voltage stays @ 12 volts...the loads.{engine starter}... will only draw what it is designed to draw in ampheres[current]... example....there are batteries with 550 cca and batteries with 1000 cold cranking amps [cca].. they do not damage the starter because of the difference in amps...its the voltage that must remain the same... remember...current in series is common voltage in series is additive 12 +12= 24v current in parrallel is additive voltage in parrallel is common cigarette lighters are wired in parrallel
AQUANUT	posted 04-22-2004 01:24 AM ET (US) I have a battery pack as described I obtained from snap-on. I use it to jump boats often...by using the cigarette lighter to cigarette lighter corf you are esentially placing the battery pack in parrallel with you cranking battery for your engine...ohmns law says current in parallel is additive...and voltage in parrallel is common. meaning that the voltage for vranking the engine remains 12 volts...however the current measured in ampheres increases..{if the voltage is low on your engines battery, then the current is too...they are realtive in a battery} so the increase in current[amps] is brought back to near normal from the LOW battery to the engine. high voltage can cause damage to electrical componets...24 volts thru a circuit designed for 12 is bad....however if the voltage stays @ 12 volts...the loads.{engine starter}... will only draw what it is designed to draw in ampheres[current]... example....there are batteries with 550 cca and batteries with 1000 cold cranking amps [cca].. they do not damage the starter because of the difference in amps...its the voltage that must remain the same... remember...current in series is common voltage in series is additive 12 +12= 24v current in parrallel is additive voltage in parrallel is common cigarette lighters are wired in parrallel
davej14	posted 04-22-2004 02:40 AM ET (US) i wouldn't rely on the cig. adapter as a plug for starting up with a spare battery pack. it probably has a ckt breaker good fo about 20A max.. cranking the motor will likely exceed this rating and simply trip the breaker (and save you from frying the wiring harness). if this is a real concern then you should hard wire a connector from either battery that would mate directly with the plug on your spare pack. that way you wouldn't have to open the battery case to access it in rough seas. be sure to use marine quality oil resistant wire of adequate size if you go this route.
Ventura16	posted 04-22-2004 10:36 AM ET (US) I have one of these portable power packs. It is indispensable for starting boats and other devices whose batteries have gone dead when there is no AC power readily available. My next-door neighbors must have borrowed it a couple of dozen times last summer since their boat battery would go dead every few days...obviously, their charging system and alternator weren't working properly. I just hook it up to the starting battery terminals as if I were jumping a car...give the ignition a crank...and then remove the cables once the engine is running. I think the current draw through a 12V receptacle would be excessive. Tom
RonB	posted 04-22-2004 11:43 AM ET (US) Thanks folks, Jim...2000 Merc 135 Opti (in my profile). Never had to jump start it, just wondering how I would if I needed to. Looks like the only way to do it (unless I rigged something up) would be to remove items from center console, lift floor board, open battery box for Battery "A" (make sure Perko switch is on "A"), connect cables from battery pack to battery terminals and attempt to start. This is my assumption, am I wrong? The thing that gets me is why does my battery pack provide a male to male 12 volt cigarette adapter cable? I guess I should read the manual. The pack is dexcribed as a marine battery pack purchased from Boaters World. Ron
Ventura16	posted 04-22-2004 01:19 PM ET (US) The 12V male to male connector would be a great way to CHARGE the portable pack from a vehicle accessory plug. Tom
CHRISWEIGHT	posted 04-22-2004 03:27 PM ET (US) Ron I am assuming that you already have twin batteries in the consol which in all honesty will start the boat even in emergency, even if number two is a deep cycle battery. These power packs have very limited capability and will only provide limited current for very short periods which are also subject to voltage drop over the connecting leads. Also bear in mind that for a power pack to help significantly it will need to have been very recently charged and connected in parallel with very substatial cables. regards chris
RonB	posted 04-22-2004 03:43 PM ET (US) Tom, Your right, I guess that's what the cable is for. Presently, if I do charge it I use an A/C adapter that I plug in the wall at home which has a male 12 volt connector that plugs into the battery pack. Chris, Yes I do have two batteries. Sometimes I run on Perko switch "A", sometimes "B" or sometimes "All" which I imagine is both. The 135 Opti does a great job keeping both batteries well charged. And your right Chris...I've never had a problem, but "chance favors a prepared mind" (forgot who said that, maybe Jimh or one of the Classic guys remembers). Ron
andygere	posted 04-23-2004 11:31 AM ET (US) For those not familiar with them, the battery packs described in this thread are a self contained unit with a 12 volt battery, charger and jumper cables, housed in a heavy duty plastic enclosure with a handle to make carrying easier. They are popular for jump starting cars and boats, and carrying one allows you to jump start a vehicle or boat without another vehicle or boat to jump from. Many of them also have a 12 volt cigarette lighter style outlet, which can be used to power or charge small electrical appliances such as cell phones or notebook computers. When the internal battery gets depleted, you simply plug it into an ac outlet and recharge it with the built in charger. These are a convenient bit of insurance for any car or boat, although I agree that jump starting a boat in rolling seas would be less than ideal. The battery pack I own also contains a small air compressor suitable for adding air to tires and inflating air mattresses. It cost about $59 at Costco, and is a handy little device. I use it frequently to put air in my truck and trailer tires, which is much more convenient than taking the entire rig to a service station. One way to make jump starting at sea a little easier would be to use a battery box that is pre wired with external terminals. Cabela's sells one for $39, with the following description. "Power Station Battery Box This unique battery box features a built in battery meter that allows you to determine battery condition at the touch of a button. External connectors provide easy accessory hook-up and eliminate the hassle of opening the box to charge the battery or access the terminals. A plug-in Power Port socket allows use of common 12-volt accessories. The circuit breaker removes the annoyance of fuses." I would have provided a specific hot link, but it was about 500 characters long and would have screwed up the format of this page. Just go to http://www.cabelas.com and look under Boating > Boating Accessories > Battery Accessories