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Author Topic:   Height of Center Console and Helm Seat

jimh posted 05-04-2004 09:03 AM ET (US)
I am 5-foot 10-inches tall. After sitting at the helm seats of a couple of the newer center console boats I though the seating was quite low. In particular, the Dauntless 18 felt like a great boat, until I sat on the helm seat. It was way too low!
Are you comfortable when seated at the helm of your newer center console Boston Whaler boat?
erik selis posted 05-04-2004 09:12 AM ET (US)
I am just under 6-feet and I also find the seating in my 170 Montauk a bit low.
I find the console height in particular way too low when standing.
Erik
Sal A posted 05-04-2004 09:28 AM ET (US)
I have the leaning post on my Nantucket. I am 6 feet tall. The positioning is outstanding for visibility behind the relatively tall Nantucket center console.
Jarhead posted 05-04-2004 11:19 AM ET (US)
Guess I should preface by saying that because of usual sea conditions coupled with an ageing back I stand at the helm of my 160 Dauntless 95+% of the time.
So to answer your question. At 6'2" I fine the few times I'm seated I'm very comfortable. :)
BTW Jim. Just in case you were thinking of asking. I like my Mercury O/B too. ;)
TomG posted 05-04-2004 11:42 AM ET (US)
Since I haven't had my new 1999 Outrage 18 on the water yet, maybe I shouldn't reply...but just like a kid playing race-car driver, I've sat behind the helm and pretended. ;-)
My Outrage has the dual pedestal seats...and I know that some were sold with a leaning post. The pedestals are 24" tall...plenty tall enough for me to sit or lean comfortably (I'm also 5'10"). It seems like a good compromise...sit when you can...stand when you want. I'll know more next week after I get it in the water.
Tom (formerly Ventura16)
Chesapeake posted 05-04-2004 12:06 PM ET (US)
Since I am back in the market, I have been studying and sitting in many, many whalers over the past month.
I love the Montauk 170. Unfortunately, like the Dauntless 160, the console is too low for my particular comfort and taste. I felt like the Dauntless 180 and Nantucket, as well as the classic Montauk / Outrage console were all of a more comfortable height.
With respect to seating, I hadn't really considered it, but can tell you that I found the Nantucket leaning post a very comfortable set-up. Do not like the molded in base, however. Would prefer the older style of leaning post screwed directly into the deck.
LHG posted 05-04-2004 02:58 PM ET (US)
If I may be constructive here. Almost since invention of the first true center console in 1961, I think Boston Whaler's center consoles and Reversible pilot seats have been designed for people 5-6 to 5-8 in height, maximum. Even though Amercians, as a people, are getting taller across the board, Boston Whaler has not adapted to this trend over the last 43 years. A large percentage of Whaler purchasers are taller than 5-8.
In many ways, the height of an operator and companion, using the console and pilot seat, does not matter anyway, and it is more of an issue of ergonomics and marine safety. Higher seats are better in many ways, as is the ability to stand and manage the overall control of the boat at the wheel and with the controls, gauges, sonar/gps etc. Adverse wind and wave conditions increase this need, particularly in a smaller boat.
As someone in the design field, long ago I recognized that the Montauk/Outrage standard console and RPS were too low for good ergonomics and ease of operation. I have raised my Whaler consoles 4" and RPS 6" and it makes a HUGE difference in comfort and control ability. People from 5-6 and up have operated my Whalers, and NONE have complained that either the console or seat is too high. Conversely, everyone seems to love the higher "feel" of the boats. I think the same low console/seat problems have continued in the new Montauk 170, and I think the 150 should have a stand up center console alternate model.
On Whaler's larger boats, the scale of the consoles and seating are better (higher), and in some ways, I almost think the consoles are overly large in dimension, using up valuable floor space for seldom used items, such as a bathroom. Recreational, lounging, and fishing floor space suffers. But that is another issue. My point is that the size of the hull should not control the height of the wheel, controls and seating. This is a constant factor, but this has been missed in the interior outfitting of the smaller boats. The smaller hulls all of smaller scale (lower) consoles and seats, including tiny cooler seats, too small for most adults.
So, at 6-2, if I was in the market for a 170 Montauk, a HULL I really like, I would try to buy it with (or later swap out) the Dauntless 18 console, a larger scaled and better looking console in my estimation. I think this is one of Whaler's best designs as a matter of fact. Perhaps this could be a "super console" option, like they used to do in the "old" days with the 22/25 Outrages. In my estimation, the standard console is simply the wrong scale for both the boat, and any operator over 5-8 tall. The RPS seat, without commenting on it's design in comparison to it's also too low predecessor, needs a height increase of 4" or so. This would also allow for a taller, more compact and higher gallonage single tank to be fitted underneath.
Front cooler seat should be an Igloo 94 qt.
Recently Nick (Bigshot) mentioned what I thought was a great idea for the 150 Sport - Offer it with the small 170 console and seat. After all, the boat is really not much smaller than the old 17 hull. I think he's right, the hull is large enough to offer center console convenience, and the small scale of the console would at least allow the operator comfortable stand-up operation.
Moe posted 05-04-2004 04:20 PM ET (US)
Here ya go, Larry. The 170 and 150 to scale, with the 170 console, RPS, and 72qt cooler (all to scale) in the 4" narrower 150.
http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/150MT.gif
--
Moe
Joe Kriz posted 05-04-2004 04:29 PM ET (US)
Moe,
How about the 170 with the Dauntless 18/180 console?
Good Job......
erik selis posted 05-04-2004 04:35 PM ET (US)
Looks great in the 150!
I would like to repeat Joe's request Moe :)
Erik
Moe posted 05-04-2004 04:50 PM ET (US)
I did that for Larry back in February, and sized the cooler up to 94 qt.
http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/Larrys170-2.gif
--
Moe
Moe posted 05-04-2004 04:56 PM ET (US)
When Larry mentioned the 180 Dauntless console was his favorite, I began looking into it. It's pretty complex and I'd imagine would be expensive to put together part by part. Nevertheless, it has also become my favorite console, and I think it and its RPS would look really nice in a 19' Guardian (don't have that drawing though). Larry may have already suggested that combo.
--
Moe
erik selis posted 05-04-2004 04:57 PM ET (US)
Thanks Moe!
What would it approx. cost to upgrade to a 180 Dauntless console with a raised helm seat? Anyone have an idea?
Erik
Joe Kriz posted 05-04-2004 05:18 PM ET (US)
Does anyone know who the manufacturer is of the RPS for the Dauntless?
LHG,
The RPS in the 1996 to 1999 Outrage 17's were made by GG Schmidt.
These RPS's were 4" to 6" taller then the Classic Teak version. They are much more comfortable in height and you can also rest your arm on top of the cushion. You can also rest your rear on the top of the cushion when standing in the leaning post position.
If the Dauntless has this same style RPS, it would already be tall enough..
I sure do like the Dauntless 180 console also.. It would be interesting to see one installed in a Montauk 170 along with the Dauntless RPS... The Montauk 170 definitely has tall enough railings around the boat to keep the higher seating and console in a safe proportion for boating.
That Nantucket console looks pretty good too but maybe too tall for the Montauk 170....
LHG posted 05-04-2004 06:43 PM ET (US)
I think we have the making of a BW owner advisory group!
Good work on the drawings, Moe. I like that 150 center console model.
And I agree, the Dauntless 18 console would be nice in a 19-27 Guardian. I also like it's more "traditional Whaler console" lines better than the Nantucket/Outrage 21 console.
Yiddil posted 05-04-2004 08:44 PM ET (US)
The reason I recently decided on the Nantucket was that using the leaning post, Ive never felt more comfortable behind a center console! Its abosolutly perfect hight, with a stepping at its bottom and the seat made we want to sit in it side saddle!...Im just a bout 6 foot, and its wonderful...very large but not in anyway obstruct my view, or ability to move around or sit comfortably! So I second SAL on this one:) Two Weeks to GO!!!!
Joe Kriz posted 05-04-2004 08:47 PM ET (US)
Moe,
Some of the diagrams you show look different from the ones on Whalers site.
Here are all the floor diagrams from the recreational boats in the sizes from the 150 to 320.
www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/2004_Floor_Diagrams.jpg
www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/2004_Floor_Diagrams#2.jpg
Are you showing older diagrams?
The floor diagrams from Whaler are not really to scale compared to each other.
We are all trusting you as an engineer that the scales you are rendering are to actual scale...
I have no desire to scale these drawings myself nor to question your ability. You appear to know what you are doing in the scaling department...
Even fish scaling for that matter.... :-)
Thanks for the comparisons......
Joe Kriz posted 05-04-2004 09:01 PM ET (US)
Here is the correct address for the second floor diagram..
www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/2004_Floor_Diagrams2.jpg
Sorry about that....
Moe posted 05-04-2004 11:16 PM ET (US)
Yes, some of the floor layouts I use are older.
Not only are the drawings on the site not to the same scale (check out the size of a 110 compared to a 190 for a laugh, but some of the Whaler floor drawings are not even proportionally correct on length vs width. I correct that as well.
--
Moe
JohnJ80 posted 05-05-2004 12:36 PM ET (US)
Great analysis everyone!
Funny this should come up. I was just thinking of ways to raise the seating in my Dauntless 15. I'm thinking of putting in some seats instead of the bench and with fore and aft adjustment plus swivel.
J
jstachowiak posted 05-12-2004 04:17 PM ET (US)
I know this does not apply to anything bigger than the 18 Dauntless, but doesn't console height have something to do to whether it will fit into a garage.
My brother has a 14 Dauntless and it just clears his garage door and he has a low trailer.
My Newport console could be taller, but it would not fit into my garage then.
What boats do fit into a garage height wise?
jimh posted 05-12-2004 05:21 PM ET (US)
That is quite a good point, actually. The designers may have sacrificed some height in certain models in order to acommodate other requirements, including fitting into a garage with a standard 8-foot tall door.
But the height of the seating should be below any threshold that would interfere with a garage door clearance.
davej14 posted 05-12-2004 08:15 PM ET (US)
I believe a standard garage door is 7 feet.
Moe posted 05-12-2004 08:33 PM ET (US)
The standard residential garage door is 7'0" high, but it sits up against and on the inside of a door frame, which will have a lower height. Typically, that's about 1", but if the floor was poured after the framing, or the floor was later replaced, it could be higher, reducing the frame to floor clearance below 6'11". Another thing to consider is that the door may not pull all the way up above the top of the frame.
--
Moe

fno posted 05-13-2004 01:51 AM ET (US)
Jim, having owned a Dauntless 16 and been on an 18 I have to agree that the sit down height of both boats is not ideal unless you are on plane. Any other time it is difficult to see over the console. I am 5'-11" However, in the standing position the backrest does well as a leaning post.
skred posted 05-13-2004 08:15 AM ET (US)
Jim, I agree with fno. My 16 Dauntless' console is a very comfortable height, as is the leaning-post position for the seatback. I am 6 feet tall, and I don't have too much trouble seeing over the bow from a seated position, but it could be a bit better. I'm sure the Dauntless' console overall height was based on the standard 7 foot garage door. Having built a new garage with same 7-foot door, my first entry with the Dauntless left me 2 inches clearance through the doorway. I'm really pleased with my console and seat setup.

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Author	Topic: Height of Center Console and Helm Seat
jimh	posted 05-04-2004 09:03 AM ET (US) I am 5-foot 10-inches tall. After sitting at the helm seats of a couple of the newer center console boats I though the seating was quite low. In particular, the Dauntless 18 felt like a great boat, until I sat on the helm seat. It was way too low! Are you comfortable when seated at the helm of your newer center console Boston Whaler boat?
erik selis	posted 05-04-2004 09:12 AM ET (US) I am just under 6-feet and I also find the seating in my 170 Montauk a bit low. I find the console height in particular way too low when standing. Erik
Sal A	posted 05-04-2004 09:28 AM ET (US) I have the leaning post on my Nantucket. I am 6 feet tall. The positioning is outstanding for visibility behind the relatively tall Nantucket center console.
Jarhead	posted 05-04-2004 11:19 AM ET (US) Guess I should preface by saying that because of usual sea conditions coupled with an ageing back I stand at the helm of my 160 Dauntless 95+% of the time. So to answer your question. At 6'2" I fine the few times I'm seated I'm very comfortable. :) BTW Jim. Just in case you were thinking of asking. I like my Mercury O/B too. ;)
TomG	posted 05-04-2004 11:42 AM ET (US) Since I haven't had my new 1999 Outrage 18 on the water yet, maybe I shouldn't reply...but just like a kid playing race-car driver, I've sat behind the helm and pretended. ;-) My Outrage has the dual pedestal seats...and I know that some were sold with a leaning post. The pedestals are 24" tall...plenty tall enough for me to sit or lean comfortably (I'm also 5'10"). It seems like a good compromise...sit when you can...stand when you want. I'll know more next week after I get it in the water. Tom (formerly Ventura16)
Chesapeake	posted 05-04-2004 12:06 PM ET (US) Since I am back in the market, I have been studying and sitting in many, many whalers over the past month. I love the Montauk 170. Unfortunately, like the Dauntless 160, the console is too low for my particular comfort and taste. I felt like the Dauntless 180 and Nantucket, as well as the classic Montauk / Outrage console were all of a more comfortable height. With respect to seating, I hadn't really considered it, but can tell you that I found the Nantucket leaning post a very comfortable set-up. Do not like the molded in base, however. Would prefer the older style of leaning post screwed directly into the deck.
LHG	posted 05-04-2004 02:58 PM ET (US) If I may be constructive here. Almost since invention of the first true center console in 1961, I think Boston Whaler's center consoles and Reversible pilot seats have been designed for people 5-6 to 5-8 in height, maximum. Even though Amercians, as a people, are getting taller across the board, Boston Whaler has not adapted to this trend over the last 43 years. A large percentage of Whaler purchasers are taller than 5-8. In many ways, the height of an operator and companion, using the console and pilot seat, does not matter anyway, and it is more of an issue of ergonomics and marine safety. Higher seats are better in many ways, as is the ability to stand and manage the overall control of the boat at the wheel and with the controls, gauges, sonar/gps etc. Adverse wind and wave conditions increase this need, particularly in a smaller boat. As someone in the design field, long ago I recognized that the Montauk/Outrage standard console and RPS were too low for good ergonomics and ease of operation. I have raised my Whaler consoles 4" and RPS 6" and it makes a HUGE difference in comfort and control ability. People from 5-6 and up have operated my Whalers, and NONE have complained that either the console or seat is too high. Conversely, everyone seems to love the higher "feel" of the boats. I think the same low console/seat problems have continued in the new Montauk 170, and I think the 150 should have a stand up center console alternate model. On Whaler's larger boats, the scale of the consoles and seating are better (higher), and in some ways, I almost think the consoles are overly large in dimension, using up valuable floor space for seldom used items, such as a bathroom. Recreational, lounging, and fishing floor space suffers. But that is another issue. My point is that the size of the hull should not control the height of the wheel, controls and seating. This is a constant factor, but this has been missed in the interior outfitting of the smaller boats. The smaller hulls all of smaller scale (lower) consoles and seats, including tiny cooler seats, too small for most adults. So, at 6-2, if I was in the market for a 170 Montauk, a HULL I really like, I would try to buy it with (or later swap out) the Dauntless 18 console, a larger scaled and better looking console in my estimation. I think this is one of Whaler's best designs as a matter of fact. Perhaps this could be a "super console" option, like they used to do in the "old" days with the 22/25 Outrages. In my estimation, the standard console is simply the wrong scale for both the boat, and any operator over 5-8 tall. The RPS seat, without commenting on it's design in comparison to it's also too low predecessor, needs a height increase of 4" or so. This would also allow for a taller, more compact and higher gallonage single tank to be fitted underneath. Front cooler seat should be an Igloo 94 qt. Recently Nick (Bigshot) mentioned what I thought was a great idea for the 150 Sport - Offer it with the small 170 console and seat. After all, the boat is really not much smaller than the old 17 hull. I think he's right, the hull is large enough to offer center console convenience, and the small scale of the console would at least allow the operator comfortable stand-up operation.
Moe	posted 05-04-2004 04:20 PM ET (US) Here ya go, Larry. The 170 and 150 to scale, with the 170 console, RPS, and 72qt cooler (all to scale) in the 4" narrower 150. http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/150MT.gif -- Moe
Joe Kriz	posted 05-04-2004 04:29 PM ET (US) Moe, How about the 170 with the Dauntless 18/180 console? Good Job......
erik selis	posted 05-04-2004 04:35 PM ET (US) Looks great in the 150! I would like to repeat Joe's request Moe :) Erik
Moe	posted 05-04-2004 04:50 PM ET (US) I did that for Larry back in February, and sized the cooler up to 94 qt. http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/Larrys170-2.gif -- Moe
Moe	posted 05-04-2004 04:56 PM ET (US) When Larry mentioned the 180 Dauntless console was his favorite, I began looking into it. It's pretty complex and I'd imagine would be expensive to put together part by part. Nevertheless, it has also become my favorite console, and I think it and its RPS would look really nice in a 19' Guardian (don't have that drawing though). Larry may have already suggested that combo. -- Moe
erik selis	posted 05-04-2004 04:57 PM ET (US) Thanks Moe! What would it approx. cost to upgrade to a 180 Dauntless console with a raised helm seat? Anyone have an idea? Erik
Joe Kriz	posted 05-04-2004 05:18 PM ET (US) Does anyone know who the manufacturer is of the RPS for the Dauntless? LHG, The RPS in the 1996 to 1999 Outrage 17's were made by GG Schmidt. These RPS's were 4" to 6" taller then the Classic Teak version. They are much more comfortable in height and you can also rest your arm on top of the cushion. You can also rest your rear on the top of the cushion when standing in the leaning post position. If the Dauntless has this same style RPS, it would already be tall enough.. I sure do like the Dauntless 180 console also.. It would be interesting to see one installed in a Montauk 170 along with the Dauntless RPS... The Montauk 170 definitely has tall enough railings around the boat to keep the higher seating and console in a safe proportion for boating. That Nantucket console looks pretty good too but maybe too tall for the Montauk 170....
LHG	posted 05-04-2004 06:43 PM ET (US) I think we have the making of a BW owner advisory group! Good work on the drawings, Moe. I like that 150 center console model. And I agree, the Dauntless 18 console would be nice in a 19-27 Guardian. I also like it's more "traditional Whaler console" lines better than the Nantucket/Outrage 21 console.
Yiddil	posted 05-04-2004 08:44 PM ET (US) The reason I recently decided on the Nantucket was that using the leaning post, Ive never felt more comfortable behind a center console! Its abosolutly perfect hight, with a stepping at its bottom and the seat made we want to sit in it side saddle!...Im just a bout 6 foot, and its wonderful...very large but not in anyway obstruct my view, or ability to move around or sit comfortably! So I second SAL on this one:) Two Weeks to GO!!!!
Joe Kriz	posted 05-04-2004 08:47 PM ET (US) Moe, Some of the diagrams you show look different from the ones on Whalers site. Here are all the floor diagrams from the recreational boats in the sizes from the 150 to 320. www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/2004_Floor_Diagrams.jpg www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/2004_Floor_Diagrams#2.jpg Are you showing older diagrams? The floor diagrams from Whaler are not really to scale compared to each other. We are all trusting you as an engineer that the scales you are rendering are to actual scale... I have no desire to scale these drawings myself nor to question your ability. You appear to know what you are doing in the scaling department... Even fish scaling for that matter.... :-) Thanks for the comparisons......
Joe Kriz	posted 05-04-2004 09:01 PM ET (US) Here is the correct address for the second floor diagram.. www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/2004_Floor_Diagrams2.jpg Sorry about that....
Moe	posted 05-04-2004 11:16 PM ET (US) Yes, some of the floor layouts I use are older. Not only are the drawings on the site not to the same scale (check out the size of a 110 compared to a 190 for a laugh, but some of the Whaler floor drawings are not even proportionally correct on length vs width. I correct that as well. -- Moe
JohnJ80	posted 05-05-2004 12:36 PM ET (US) Great analysis everyone! Funny this should come up. I was just thinking of ways to raise the seating in my Dauntless 15. I'm thinking of putting in some seats instead of the bench and with fore and aft adjustment plus swivel. J
jstachowiak	posted 05-12-2004 04:17 PM ET (US) I know this does not apply to anything bigger than the 18 Dauntless, but doesn't console height have something to do to whether it will fit into a garage. My brother has a 14 Dauntless and it just clears his garage door and he has a low trailer. My Newport console could be taller, but it would not fit into my garage then. What boats do fit into a garage height wise?
jimh	posted 05-12-2004 05:21 PM ET (US) That is quite a good point, actually. The designers may have sacrificed some height in certain models in order to acommodate other requirements, including fitting into a garage with a standard 8-foot tall door. But the height of the seating should be below any threshold that would interfere with a garage door clearance.
davej14	posted 05-12-2004 08:15 PM ET (US) I believe a standard garage door is 7 feet.
Moe	posted 05-12-2004 08:33 PM ET (US) The standard residential garage door is 7'0" high, but it sits up against and on the inside of a door frame, which will have a lower height. Typically, that's about 1", but if the floor was poured after the framing, or the floor was later replaced, it could be higher, reducing the frame to floor clearance below 6'11". Another thing to consider is that the door may not pull all the way up above the top of the frame. -- Moe
fno	posted 05-13-2004 01:51 AM ET (US) Jim, having owned a Dauntless 16 and been on an 18 I have to agree that the sit down height of both boats is not ideal unless you are on plane. Any other time it is difficult to see over the console. I am 5'-11" However, in the standing position the backrest does well as a leaning post.
skred	posted 05-13-2004 08:15 AM ET (US) Jim, I agree with fno. My 16 Dauntless' console is a very comfortable height, as is the leaning-post position for the seatback. I am 6 feet tall, and I don't have too much trouble seeing over the bow from a seated position, but it could be a bit better. I'm sure the Dauntless' console overall height was based on the standard 7 foot garage door. Having built a new garage with same 7-foot door, my first entry with the Dauntless left me 2 inches clearance through the doorway. I'm really pleased with my console and seat setup.