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  Montauk 170 vs Classic 17' Boats

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Author Topic:   Montauk 170 vs Classic 17' Boats
Dick Gregory posted 05-18-2004 07:55 PM ET (US)   Profile for Dick Gregory   Send Email to Dick Gregory  
I've never owned a Whaler. I plan to purchase a 17' boat as recommended by a surf buddy who swore by his pre-2002 17' Whaler for running into the otherwise inaccessible Ranch from Gaviota. I'd also use the boat for abalone diving and spearfishing. Might even start fishing with a rod as well.
My question for anyone with the experience or an opinion is which 17' boat to buy and why. Thanks for your consideration.
Moe posted 05-19-2004 08:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Welcome to the Continuous Whaler Forum! Since no one else has, I'll jump in here. The 170 Montauk is the smirked (2nd generation) Montauk 17 taken to a new level. The "smirked" classic 17 was the first step away from the original cathedral hull design with a little more deep-V and sponsons pulled in more at the bottom, and it rode much smoother than the original, which was widely reknowned for its harsh ride. The 170 is yet a second step away, with even more deep-V and smaller sponsons, and it also rides much smoother than its predecessor, which was unable to shake the original's reputation for a harsh ride. The differences can be seen here with the new 170 on top and the smirked classic 17 on the bottom:

http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/bowlines.jpg

The 170 is also a much roomier boat, 5" longer and 8" beamier than the classic 17, yet it still fits under a 7 foot high residential garage door, and with the 2004 folding tongue trailer, in a small 20' deep garage. Observe the more vertical gunwales, giving the cockpit sole even more width and a flatter surface in front of the console. The railings moved from inboard to on top of the gunwales, giving even more usable beam.

In growing larger, it has increased from roughly 950 to 1400 pounds. However, loaded on the trailer, the rig is still below the 3,000 pounds over which many states require trailer brakes. The extra weight also helps the deeper-V cut through the waves.

As new as they are, introduced in 2002, there are likely to be fewer 170son the used market, so the answer to your question may boil down to whether to buy a new boat or a used one. When you consider a new rig isn't that much more than a classic smirked hull repowered with a new motor, the difference in price buys you more boat.

There is good information on this website, starting with the 170 article in the Reference section, http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/170Montauk/ and reports of two of the first delivered 170s in the Cetecea section, [url]http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage58.html[/url.

There are MANY 170 topics in the Post-Classic forum you posted this in. While viewing the list of topics, select "Show topics from the last two years" and then use your browser's "Find on this page" function to look for them. When it finds one, right-click on it and select "Open in New Window." This will let you read that topic, leaving the window with the topics and the search dialog open.

Many of these topics have links to owner's picture pages, and you can get many ideas for customizing the 170.

Hope this helps!

--
Moe (2003 150 Sport)

Moe posted 05-19-2004 08:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Oops... the Cetecea link should be http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage58.html .

Camuyano posted 05-20-2004 10:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for Camuyano  Send Email to Camuyano     
Since you will be using your boat for diving you should check out "Black Bog" a classic Montauk 17 outfitted for diving.

http://www.garlic.com/~triblet/whaler/

I just got my 170 Montauk so I don't have a lot of personal experience with it yet but the general consensus seems to be that the ride is smoother than the classic although it is heavier. Additionally, newer engines may cause the classic to ride lower at the stern since they are heavier.

My first impression is that this is a great boat, roomy yet compact, smooth riding, superior quality and more standard features than many other boats. This is a boat that I think I can keep for a long time.

I will also echo the problems with finding used 17s. I almost didn't get this boat because the classic 17s on the used market were so expensive that I figured a new one would cost twice what it actually did so I wasn't even going to call the Whaler dealership. (I'm so glad I did!)

I didn't even see any 170 Montauks on the used market. This means that if you want the update model vs. the classic you almost certainly have to go new and if you want the classic you will may get less "bang for your buck".

Imanuel

Chuck Tribolet posted 05-20-2004 11:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I've got classic Montauk 17 (Black DOG, not Black BOG) and my
buddy Kawika has a 2003.

I've got a lot of time on my boat (about 400 days) and
some time on Kawika's. His rides a bit better. Gas mileage is
about the same. Roomyness is about the same because though
the 2003 is bigger on the outside, it has wider gunwales and
enclosures on either side of the motor well.

The gunwales on the 2003 are enough higher that I have to work
to get in over them, were I have no trouble with mine. Kawika,
who goes to the climbing gym twice a week, has no trouble.

Either one will be much better than an inflatable except:
I don't know how useful it will be for abalone. You can't
take abs south of the golden gate, and there are few places
to launch a Montauk north of the GG. There are a number of
places to launch an inflatable with beaching wheels.


Chuck

Camuyano posted 05-20-2004 11:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Camuyano  Send Email to Camuyano     
Sorry Chuck. I meant to write "Black Dog"... Stupid keys keep changing places on me!
Perry posted 05-20-2004 04:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Dick, I've had some excellent days surfing the Ranch while going to college in Santa Barbara. My friend's trailer also encountered some unexplained damage to its tires after the locals figured out the boat that usually sits on it didn't belong to one of "them".

I think either old or new Montauk will serve your purposes well. One of the main differences is the extra $10,000 a new 170 will set you back compared to a used Montauk.

Moe posted 05-20-2004 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Here are some line drawings to scale that include the classic 17 and 170. The drawings of labeled 17 MT (Montauk) and 18 OR (Outrage) are actually commercial Guardian boats, but the hulls are the same.

http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/150vs17vs170vs18.gif

--
Moe

Dick Gregory posted 05-22-2004 02:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick Gregory  Send Email to Dick Gregory     
Thanks to all for the great information and enthusiasm! I'll post again when I own one.
Dick

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