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Author Topic:   MARINER ENGINES ON 170'S
bigjohn1 posted 06-08-2004 08:48 AM ET (US)   Profile for bigjohn1   Send Email to bigjohn1  
Check this out, I had a last minute change of heart regarding what motor to have rigged on my 170 when it arrives later this month. I phoned my dealer to see if it was too late, he called the factory, and then told me it was not too late. I told my dealer I wanted the 115EFI and they somehow got the factory to ship him my boat with no motor. The dealer will rig it with one of his in-stock Mariner 115's. Of course this dealer is in Guam...and although it is a U.S. Territory, I guess "technically" you could say its out of the U.S.

Of course he'll have me sign the required paperwork saying I acknowledge no hull warranty but after thinking for months on this, I know this is the right choice for me. Same weight as the 90 4-stroke but with the extra pep and smoothness of EFI. I will not run a stainless prop on it due to the type of bottom we have here.....fringe coral reef. While I don't plan on motoring over shallow reef, I like the idea of the prop getting ruined instead of the gear case "just in case" I ever hit something. With two teenagers who will want to slalom ski -- and no, they WILL NOT drive dad's boat -- that 115 will last a bit longer with all that heavy work. I know some will chime in that the 90 pulls skiers just fine and I know that.....I am talking about longevity and I just think the 115 has the extra muscle to last longer if used in this way.

Based on prevailing winds and seas in Guam, the days when I could even think about getting WOT on this boat would be few and far between - I don't want speed, I want low-end muscle, smooth running throughout the RPM range, and longevity. Of course, I will be much pleased not to have to deal with carbs as well.

o.k., if anyone wants to flame me for being a hypocrit, fire away as I got on that guy (Buddy?) who rigged his 170 with a 175 AND a kicker (together, these engines were over the weight rated for the 170). I am still overpowering but I'll argue it is safer as it does not exceed max engine weight for the hull and I do have more than a few years at the helm. Still warming up to this engine's "Mercury with a Gray cowl graphics" though but I'm sure she'll grow on me.

Aquanut, call me mentally challenged but I can't figure out how to access a post of yours some weeks back. You listed speeds for various aluminum props with your 115 EFI. Can you chime in here with those again?

Big John

WT posted 06-08-2004 09:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
I would go with the 115 EFI if it was an easy process.

I have a 2004 Montauk loaded with a 24 gallon Pate tank, 23 gallon live well and extra batteries. I notice all the extra weight when I have a few fishermen riding with me.

Good luck and you will love your new toy.

WT

jimh posted 06-08-2004 09:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Nota Bene: The default view of the forum articles index is set to "Last Ten Days". You can change this in the forum index page to many other time frames. If you are seeking an article older than ten days, you must, of course, inform the index page of your wishes. It will show you many different ranges of articles. The time frame choice is made on the same page that shows you the index.
Perry posted 06-08-2004 01:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
bigjohn, a side note on props: We have lots of shallow fringe reef here and I have hit it many times with my stainless steel prop. Nothing but a few scratches on it. The coral is soft enough that it does little to no damage to stainless props but hard enough to ruin an aluminium one. If I would have been using an aluminium prop these last few years, I would have had to replace or repair at least ten of them.
AQUANUT posted 06-08-2004 09:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for AQUANUT  Send Email to AQUANUT     
alright john,
NOW YOUR IN THE CLUB...heheheheheh


I am with perry on the prop logic!....grew up in the carribean, stainless for longevity...they are rebuildable and more forgiving than alluminum.

http://groups.msn.com/montauk170/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4


as far as damage to the sahft and destruction of lower gearcase shaftseal...and then destruction of bearing due to water intrusion goes....it really not that more common in stainless props versus alluminum.it only takes 6-7 thousandths for the shaft to be bent and in need of repair...a real good whack alluminum or stainless...your there.

Marsh posted 06-08-2004 09:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marsh  Send Email to Marsh     
Wish I had a 115, or better yet a 175. I still can't understand why the Montauk is limited to a 90, but various bass boats of comparable lenght are legal with up to double the Montauk's 90HP.

On the bright side, this past week end, I was able to out run one boat: an aluminum flat bottom with a 35 HP motor. All the other bass-type boats left me in their wake.

Em-Bare-ASSing

Later,
Marsh

bigjohn1 posted 06-09-2004 08:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Jimh...thanks for the instructions on referencing older threads...I'll use that indeed now when I look.

Perry/Aquanut, thanks for the info on reefs and props. I did not know that and just assumed that coral heads and the Limestone base would do a number on the shaft if I was rigged with an ss prop....I may well now go ahead with a
stainless unit and just watch really close for the reef. I freedive and spearfish a great deal up near the reef and the boat will find itself anchored up in the shallows (10ft or so) a good deal of the time.

Marsh, I could be off on this but if I'm not mistaken, bass boat hulls are DESIGNED and built to handle the much greater weight of huge outboards and the much higher speeds.
Their bow design and extremely low freeboard have something to do with it as well. I just think from an engineering and construction standpoint, Whaler never intended for the 170 to do 80MPH. Growing up bass fishing in Western Kentucky, I have had my share of hair-raising 60-70mph rides down the Ohio and Tennessee Rivers. I was never driving but it
always scared the crap out of me even in calm waters.

Speed is how the game is played though in a tournament bass fishing scenerio. When they say go and there are 50-60 boats at the marina all trying for that "secret" fishing hole, the guy with the most muscle gets there first and can lay claim (but not always). I think the bass boat industry in general though has convinced even the casual weekend fisherman he needs big HP even for his modest bass boat. Its funny though how 25-30 years ago, a bass boat with a
115 or 120 hp was thought of as a muscle boat....these days, you hardly see any bass boats (down south anyway) with less than 150hp...and that is the budget end of the scale. There are "budget" bass boat packages such as Bass Tracker and others that package their hull with a sub-100hp outboard but when you get into the premium big name hulls like Skeeter, Stratos, Ranger, and many others, those hulls seem to start out with about 150hp and then go way up from there.
Big John

Moe posted 06-09-2004 09:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Just to set the record straight, not only are bass boats designed for larger motors, their hulls are designed for the higher speeds.

The bass boats you see with really big motors are much larger and heavier than the 170, even though they don't appear to be so due to their lower profile. A bass boat of the same size as the 170 isn't rated significantly higher.

Comparing a 170 to a Ranger 175 bass boat, the latter is 5" longer and wider, and with dual-console, is under, but within 100 lbs of the 170's weight. But that does include fishfinder and trolling motor. Recommended horsepower range is only 90-130 horsepower.

--
Moe

Whalerdan posted 06-09-2004 09:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     

Bigjohn,

I was in Guam for two months (less two weeks in Diego Garcia) back when Clinton took his daughter to India and Pakistan for vacation just before he left office :-). It was a neat place but I think I would go nuts if I lived there. I guess you being retired you can jump on a hop if it got too bad.

We tried fishing from the shore but didn't have much luck. Where would you water ski there? I don't recall any protected areas that would be smooth enough, except over the reef which you probably wouldn't want to run a new boat and God forbid when the skier fell off.

I don't recall seeing any Whalers over there. Do they command a premium price due to the location?

Take Care,
Danny Shaw
Charleston AFB

Camuyano posted 06-09-2004 01:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Camuyano  Send Email to Camuyano     
Aquanut:

Where in the Caribbean did you grow up? I grew up in Puerto Rico and my cousins, who troll for bonito in 20-foot walkarounds, swear that my stainless wheel will ruin my lower unit with one good whack on hard bottom. I don’t have to worry about this in the Potomac as the bottom is mostly soft (although I would gladly take the risk if I could have the blue water and white sand) but I always thought that if I ended up moving back and shipping the boat I would change to an aluminum prop.

Imanuel

AQUANUT posted 06-10-2004 09:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for AQUANUT  Send Email to AQUANUT     
camuyano,
lived in southern florida, the florida keys,the bvi's [british virgins, Tortola] and st lucia.
been to st kitts, st thomas,aruba,turks,bahamas,puerto rico
(nice pineapple}, jamaica, cuba,st thomas, all of the bvis,
[salt island,petter islans, virgin gorda,tortola] st vincents and the grenedines and many other little out of the way places in search of the best rum!

darnit...now I miss it and need a melon colada...or even a banana kahlua colada...maybe I'll settle for a drunken monkey


I mizz da ilons mon!

bigjohn1 posted 06-10-2004 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Whalerdan,

Yes, small island living can either grow on you or get the best of you...but you already know that having done time on a much smaller island than Guam (D.G.) For us and what we like to do, its just fine though. The local dealer here sells Mariners vice Merc as Guam is technically outside the USA. I owned a few Mariners previously and saw absolutely no difference at all (in terms of power, performance, and ability to withstand the harsh environment) between my motors and my buddy's Merc's. Its funny though how you will run into boaters here who religiously buy Mariners but would have nothing to do with a Merc. I guess that proves that Brunswick's marketing decison to keep both product lines actually does work to sell more motors:-)

The only place to ski most of the time is inside the inner Apra Harbor. There are many days however (from Nov-June)when you can ski in open seas as long as its really early in the morning before winds pick up. Fishing is slow there, off-shore is the only place to fish.

As for Whaler pricing, shipping to way over here does add substantially to the total bottom-line cost. My 170 with just about every option you can have (and the 115EFI swap) will be around $31K! Yes, its way high but that's the price of living on an island....I just live with it - after all, what else can I do?
Big John

Camuyano posted 06-10-2004 11:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for Camuyano  Send Email to Camuyano     
Aquanut:

You’ve almost got me beat! Let’s see… St. Thomas, St. John, Norman Island, St. Kitts, Grand Cayman, Bahamas, BVIs, Martinique, Guadalupe, St. Lucia, Granada, Dominican Republic, Curacao, Aruba, Jamaica… It sure was fun to be able to jump on a Cessna or boat and go exploring and diving on nearby islands. Like you I’m starting to get nostalgic for the Pina Coladas and everything else. I hadn’t been back home in a while but just recently have been back two times, which reminded me of everything I was missing. I want to get some land down there but that would mean a second Whaler. ;)

Imanuel

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