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Author Topic:   170 MONTAUK Anchor

bigjohn1 posted 06-11-2004 09:46 AM ET (US)
Gang,
I want to see what anchor package everything thinks is the best for my 170 considering the fact that I anchor on South Pacific reefs. Before I decide on a specific type, I want to make sure it fits properly in the anchor locker OR can fit on some type of device up forward. My main concern is to have a setup which will not scratch or ding up my gel coat when anchoring or retreiving.
Traditional Danforth designs are very popular over here in Guam as are the folding "Grapnel" style. I will be using the proper size line and chain and that has been debated many times in other topics and threads so my main concern is on the ANCHOR itself. I have used many folding Grapnels over the years on RIBS and they hold very well on coral reefs and the underlying limestone base rock. Trouble is though, they actually hold too well and can be a real pain to break free when its time to go. On my RIBS, I used to always anchor in about 10-15ft and just dive on the anchor to retreive it when it was time to move. The Danforth design seems to be much easier to retreive from the boat when its time to move and they also seem to hold relatively well on reefs. It would seem like a 6-8lb folding grapnel would be adequate for a 170 Montauk and it would colapse to easily fit inside the anchor locker.
Will a Danforth easily fir inside that locker with all your line and chain? If not, is it best to buy a type of mount to simply stow/hang the Danforth up forward from the bow rail?
Big John
Chuck Tribolet posted 06-11-2004 10:53 AM ET (US)
Kawika has a danforth mounted in Perko (I think) chocks on
the flat area under the bow rail. The chocks are on a
piece of about 1/4" starboard and through bolted into the
flat area.
He has a short bungee to keep the chain from rattling about.
It works quite well.

Chuck
Divedog posted 06-11-2004 01:43 PM ET (US)
I just set up my anchoring system and I had trouble fitting a Danforth into the locker. For me, it was important to be able to store it in the locker. I was looking at an 8 lb anchor, even though it's sized for a larger boat. The 'correct' size looked like a toy to me and I wasn't willing to let my boat hang on a hook that small when I'm 50 feet below in 5 foot visibility.
Since the bow locker is fairly deep I purchased an eleven pound Bruce style anchor. This may not work where you are anchoring. I'm not sure how the Pacific compares with the Caribbean where I lived for bit, but we never anchored on the reef. We'd find a bit of sand to hook into.
fno posted 06-11-2004 03:54 PM ET (US)
Get a small Fortress anchor. They are smaller, lighter, and hold better than an equivalent Danforth. And don't let us catch you snagging coral heads with that thing.
samwhaler posted 06-11-2004 04:49 PM ET (US)
I like this "Chene" type from Bassproshops,
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=850&hvarDept=200&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=3&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse
Sam.
HawaiianWhaler posted 06-11-2004 06:18 PM ET (US)
Around here when guys anchor in a rocky or coral area they often find the danforth and spade type anchors get stuck to the bottom. To avoid losing expensive anchors and chain, they use anchors home made out of rebar. One style uses wood as the stock and they just break that if it gets stuck. Another style is the grappling hook type where they'll just pull on it (with the boat engine) until the hook(s) straighten out if stuck. The main drawback to this is that rebar rusts, but - hey - it's cheap too. You can buy a commercially made version of the grappling hook which isn't steel so no rust; see link below. Good luck.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=56235&catalogId=10001&classNum=704&subdeptNum=11206&storeNum=5
dgp posted 06-11-2004 07:38 PM ET (US)
I use a 9# Delta anchor on my classic Montauk, http://www.lewmar.com/webcat/index.asp
It works best in mud and sand bottoms and easily fits in the bow anchor locker.
Knot at Work posted 06-11-2004 07:54 PM ET (US)
A Liberal Democrat.
Rich M posted 06-11-2004 11:13 PM ET (US)
I use a 6lb danforth in sand. With correct chain, rode and scope it holds the 170 well and fits in the locker. For rocks and coral a grapnel is the correct choice. A collapsable would probably fit in the locker.
Chuck Tribolet posted 06-11-2004 11:15 PM ET (US)
Divedog, Kawika and I both hang our Montauks (17' 0" and
16' 7" respectively) on five pound Danforths. In sand
it digs in, in rock, it catches something. The only
hassle is if it gets tangled in the chain on the way down,
so I drop the anchor, hold the line, drop the line when the
anchor hits the end of the chain, and keep a little
resistance on the line.
And the Captain's first job on getting to the bottom is to
check the anchor.

Chuck
Chuck Tribolet posted 06-11-2004 11:16 PM ET (US)
Oh, and I'll try to get a picture of how Kawika mounts the
Danforth on his 170 tomorrow.

Chuck
lakeman posted 06-12-2004 06:56 AM ET (US)
Get a graple anchor with a hooke or eye between the graples and one on the shank. Hook the anohor with some chain first into the eye in the graple and then use plastic ties to attache it to the shank eye. If it will not pull out easily(in most anything) tht plastic tie will break ant it will then pull from the opposite direction of the grapples. The grapple anchor does not have to be big to do the job.
Hope I have describe it correctly.
Beaner posted 06-12-2004 07:43 AM ET (US)

Big John,
I have two Danforth type anchor setups that I use in my 170 Montauk. They are as follows:
1. Danforth Hi-Tensile 5H, 6 feet 5/16 chain, 150 3/8 line - I keep this in an anchor bag (West Marine $30 bucks) in the bow locker. Fits very well with room for a fender or my rail mounted bait baord. Anchor held very well on sand/mud, never tried it in the rocks.
2. Fortress FX-7, 6 feet 1/4 chain, 100 feet 3/8 line - this is stowed in the Fortress stow-away bag in my console. It fits well behind the battery. This also fits in the locker, but it is a very tight fit. The shank is the problem and it has to be positioned just right for the top to close. This used to be my primary setup, but I just don't like the tight fit.
The Fortress is probably better in the rocks since it is made from Aluminum and can bend if snagged. Also there is a lifetime replacement on any parts you may break. I can tell you that in sand or mud it is an awsome anchor. For my needs the Danforth setup is what works best right now. Also, with the Danforth in the bag I have not had any scrathes or chips in the gel coat. The bag seems to work really well. Hope this helps.
Chuck Tribolet posted 06-12-2004 08:34 AM ET (US)
Danforths bend too. Been there a couple a times, straightened
it out in a big bench vise.

Chuck
bigjohn1 posted 06-13-2004 08:52 AM ET (US)
Lots of great ideas here for sure.
HawaiianWhaler, the setup you describe is great and we have successfully used that type on many boats all over the Western Pacific. I love it becuase as you say, if it gets stuck, you just motor it out and it easily bends, then bend it back once its aboard the boat. The trouble I have with that one is it takes up too much space on a smaller boat so I'll probably stay away from it with the 170. My dive buddy in Okinawa has that setup in his Japanese Panga and it does work good though.
fno.....thanks for the tip and, although I'm no tree hugger, I am not brain-dead enough to drop anchor on live coral..thanks for the advice though and I'll watch out to make sure you don't catch me if I do.
Many good ideas here so thanks to all.
Big John
fno posted 06-13-2004 09:12 AM ET (US)
Goodm luck... Didnt' think you were braindead, not if you had the smarts to buy a Whasler. Enjoy the reefs.
Chuck Tribolet posted 06-13-2004 10:29 PM ET (US)
I posted a picture of how Kawika has the anchor mounted on
his M170 at http://www.garlic.com/~triblet/whaler/06130001s.jpg
He's got 400' of line (3/8 or 7/16) in the bow locker.
Note that that the chocks are sitting on a piece of 1/4" or
3/8" starboard, and the screws go through that and into the
wood (or whale board) under the diamond pattern.
Also note that there's a bungee that secures the chain to
the lifting eye so that it doesn't bounce off the gel coat
when under way, and as a back up, just in case the anchor
should come out of the chocks, it won't sail back into the
prop. If this doesn't concern you: it happened to one of
the Monterey commercial dive boats a few weeks ago. They got
lucky -- only a bent prop and some scratches. An LA private
dive boat was less lucky -- it did enough damage that the
boat was written off. There should be redundant attachment of
any anchor that could go overboard if the primary attachment
lets go.

Chuck
bigjohn1 posted 06-14-2004 09:39 AM ET (US)
Chuck,
Very professional looking setup - thanks for posting it. That looks more in line with something I'd be inclined to do since I'd hate to scratch her up in any way or worse, have my rode get twisted up in the prop. I'm lucky though as the water is generally very smooth in Guam so bouncing won't be as big an issue. Thanks again....
Big John

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Author	Topic: 170 MONTAUK Anchor
bigjohn1	posted 06-11-2004 09:46 AM ET (US) Gang, I want to see what anchor package everything thinks is the best for my 170 considering the fact that I anchor on South Pacific reefs. Before I decide on a specific type, I want to make sure it fits properly in the anchor locker OR can fit on some type of device up forward. My main concern is to have a setup which will not scratch or ding up my gel coat when anchoring or retreiving. Traditional Danforth designs are very popular over here in Guam as are the folding "Grapnel" style. I will be using the proper size line and chain and that has been debated many times in other topics and threads so my main concern is on the ANCHOR itself. I have used many folding Grapnels over the years on RIBS and they hold very well on coral reefs and the underlying limestone base rock. Trouble is though, they actually hold too well and can be a real pain to break free when its time to go. On my RIBS, I used to always anchor in about 10-15ft and just dive on the anchor to retreive it when it was time to move. The Danforth design seems to be much easier to retreive from the boat when its time to move and they also seem to hold relatively well on reefs. It would seem like a 6-8lb folding grapnel would be adequate for a 170 Montauk and it would colapse to easily fit inside the anchor locker. Will a Danforth easily fir inside that locker with all your line and chain? If not, is it best to buy a type of mount to simply stow/hang the Danforth up forward from the bow rail? Big John
Chuck Tribolet	posted 06-11-2004 10:53 AM ET (US) Kawika has a danforth mounted in Perko (I think) chocks on the flat area under the bow rail. The chocks are on a piece of about 1/4" starboard and through bolted into the flat area. He has a short bungee to keep the chain from rattling about. It works quite well. Chuck
Divedog	posted 06-11-2004 01:43 PM ET (US) I just set up my anchoring system and I had trouble fitting a Danforth into the locker. For me, it was important to be able to store it in the locker. I was looking at an 8 lb anchor, even though it's sized for a larger boat. The 'correct' size looked like a toy to me and I wasn't willing to let my boat hang on a hook that small when I'm 50 feet below in 5 foot visibility. Since the bow locker is fairly deep I purchased an eleven pound Bruce style anchor. This may not work where you are anchoring. I'm not sure how the Pacific compares with the Caribbean where I lived for bit, but we never anchored on the reef. We'd find a bit of sand to hook into.
fno	posted 06-11-2004 03:54 PM ET (US) Get a small Fortress anchor. They are smaller, lighter, and hold better than an equivalent Danforth. And don't let us catch you snagging coral heads with that thing.
samwhaler	posted 06-11-2004 04:49 PM ET (US) I like this "Chene" type from Bassproshops, http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=850&hvarDept=200&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=3&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse Sam.
HawaiianWhaler	posted 06-11-2004 06:18 PM ET (US) Around here when guys anchor in a rocky or coral area they often find the danforth and spade type anchors get stuck to the bottom. To avoid losing expensive anchors and chain, they use anchors home made out of rebar. One style uses wood as the stock and they just break that if it gets stuck. Another style is the grappling hook type where they'll just pull on it (with the boat engine) until the hook(s) straighten out if stuck. The main drawback to this is that rebar rusts, but - hey - it's cheap too. You can buy a commercially made version of the grappling hook which isn't steel so no rust; see link below. Good luck. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=56235&catalogId=10001&classNum=704&subdeptNum=11206&storeNum=5
dgp	posted 06-11-2004 07:38 PM ET (US) I use a 9# Delta anchor on my classic Montauk, http://www.lewmar.com/webcat/index.asp It works best in mud and sand bottoms and easily fits in the bow anchor locker.
Knot at Work	posted 06-11-2004 07:54 PM ET (US) A Liberal Democrat.
Rich M	posted 06-11-2004 11:13 PM ET (US) I use a 6lb danforth in sand. With correct chain, rode and scope it holds the 170 well and fits in the locker. For rocks and coral a grapnel is the correct choice. A collapsable would probably fit in the locker.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 06-11-2004 11:15 PM ET (US) Divedog, Kawika and I both hang our Montauks (17' 0" and 16' 7" respectively) on five pound Danforths. In sand it digs in, in rock, it catches something. The only hassle is if it gets tangled in the chain on the way down, so I drop the anchor, hold the line, drop the line when the anchor hits the end of the chain, and keep a little resistance on the line. And the Captain's first job on getting to the bottom is to check the anchor. Chuck
Chuck Tribolet	posted 06-11-2004 11:16 PM ET (US) Oh, and I'll try to get a picture of how Kawika mounts the Danforth on his 170 tomorrow. Chuck
lakeman	posted 06-12-2004 06:56 AM ET (US) Get a graple anchor with a hooke or eye between the graples and one on the shank. Hook the anohor with some chain first into the eye in the graple and then use plastic ties to attache it to the shank eye. If it will not pull out easily(in most anything) tht plastic tie will break ant it will then pull from the opposite direction of the grapples. The grapple anchor does not have to be big to do the job. Hope I have describe it correctly.
Beaner	posted 06-12-2004 07:43 AM ET (US) Big John, I have two Danforth type anchor setups that I use in my 170 Montauk. They are as follows: 1. Danforth Hi-Tensile 5H, 6 feet 5/16 chain, 150 3/8 line - I keep this in an anchor bag (West Marine $30 bucks) in the bow locker. Fits very well with room for a fender or my rail mounted bait baord. Anchor held very well on sand/mud, never tried it in the rocks. 2. Fortress FX-7, 6 feet 1/4 chain, 100 feet 3/8 line - this is stowed in the Fortress stow-away bag in my console. It fits well behind the battery. This also fits in the locker, but it is a very tight fit. The shank is the problem and it has to be positioned just right for the top to close. This used to be my primary setup, but I just don't like the tight fit. The Fortress is probably better in the rocks since it is made from Aluminum and can bend if snagged. Also there is a lifetime replacement on any parts you may break. I can tell you that in sand or mud it is an awsome anchor. For my needs the Danforth setup is what works best right now. Also, with the Danforth in the bag I have not had any scrathes or chips in the gel coat. The bag seems to work really well. Hope this helps.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 06-12-2004 08:34 AM ET (US) Danforths bend too. Been there a couple a times, straightened it out in a big bench vise. Chuck
bigjohn1	posted 06-13-2004 08:52 AM ET (US) Lots of great ideas here for sure. HawaiianWhaler, the setup you describe is great and we have successfully used that type on many boats all over the Western Pacific. I love it becuase as you say, if it gets stuck, you just motor it out and it easily bends, then bend it back once its aboard the boat. The trouble I have with that one is it takes up too much space on a smaller boat so I'll probably stay away from it with the 170. My dive buddy in Okinawa has that setup in his Japanese Panga and it does work good though. fno.....thanks for the tip and, although I'm no tree hugger, I am not brain-dead enough to drop anchor on live coral..thanks for the advice though and I'll watch out to make sure you don't catch me if I do. Many good ideas here so thanks to all. Big John
fno	posted 06-13-2004 09:12 AM ET (US) Goodm luck... Didnt' think you were braindead, not if you had the smarts to buy a Whasler. Enjoy the reefs.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 06-13-2004 10:29 PM ET (US) I posted a picture of how Kawika has the anchor mounted on his M170 at http://www.garlic.com/~triblet/whaler/06130001s.jpg He's got 400' of line (3/8 or 7/16) in the bow locker. Note that that the chocks are sitting on a piece of 1/4" or 3/8" starboard, and the screws go through that and into the wood (or whale board) under the diamond pattern. Also note that there's a bungee that secures the chain to the lifting eye so that it doesn't bounce off the gel coat when under way, and as a back up, just in case the anchor should come out of the chocks, it won't sail back into the prop. If this doesn't concern you: it happened to one of the Monterey commercial dive boats a few weeks ago. They got lucky -- only a bent prop and some scratches. An LA private dive boat was less lucky -- it did enough damage that the boat was written off. There should be redundant attachment of any anchor that could go overboard if the primary attachment lets go. Chuck
bigjohn1	posted 06-14-2004 09:39 AM ET (US) Chuck, Very professional looking setup - thanks for posting it. That looks more in line with something I'd be inclined to do since I'd hate to scratch her up in any way or worse, have my rode get twisted up in the prop. I'm lucky though as the water is generally very smooth in Guam so bouncing won't be as big an issue. Thanks again.... Big John