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Author Topic:   130 sport with 60hp efi 4 stroke

AQUANUT posted 08-13-2004 11:49 PM ET (US)
anyone got any data to share, just rigged one today, haven't propped it yet.
Florida15 posted 08-14-2004 05:21 PM ET (US)
That's a lot of engine for a 13'. How does it sit in the water ?
AQUANUT posted 08-16-2004 09:25 PM ET (US)
well i ran it in the test tank today, it didn't even allow water to come in the deck drain aft..however when i reversed the engine and gave it alot of throttle, some water came in...it would be neccessary to keep the plug in then.
the weight difference is minimal...hp is up 50% tho...
its a 60hp efi..man o man..should be a runner
HuronBob posted 08-16-2004 09:28 PM ET (US)
this setup would worry me a bit, feels overpowered!
AQUANUT posted 08-17-2004 10:14 AM ET (US)
actually it feels more correct of a match than the 115hp efi 4 stroke i put on my 2004 montauk 170
http://groups.msn.com/montauk170/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
HuronBob posted 08-17-2004 01:16 PM ET (US)
I want to elaborate a bit on my response that it feels over powered..
My experience is with a 13 footer with a 40 hp EFI Merc. Going WOT with this setup, even on very calm water, feels like control is about maxed out. Mind you, this is a seat of the pants evaluation, but I have a difficult time with the concept of increasing the hp another 50%. I'm not sure what the point would be, but I think you would want to be very cautious any time you're using that extra 20hp you've added to the recommended setup for this size boat....
Be careful!
Bob
2004_130_SPORT posted 02-03-2005 05:43 PM ET (US)
Aquanut are you crazy or just stupid i have a 2004 130 sport with a 40hp merc and the thing flies its gotta be unsafe with a 60hp motor. And how do you insure something like that. just doesnt sound like a good idea to me.
2manyboats posted 02-03-2005 06:32 PM ET (US)
How much does the 60 weigh ? I keep thinking about moving the 70 (248lbs) from the montauk to one of the 13s and getting a 150hp for the 17.
Freeport Alan posted 02-05-2005 10:58 PM ET (US)
I'm rigging a 250 verado on my 1977 13, was considering the 275 HP model but dont want to do anything foolish
acseatsri posted 02-06-2005 01:24 PM ET (US)
The biggest impediment to me on the 250 vs 275 Verado on the 13 would be the need to run premium fuel in the 275. I'd stick with the 250.
poker13 posted 02-07-2005 10:18 AM ET (US)
Well, considering that the 130 weighs almost twice as much as the classic 13, and the classic was rated for 40hp, what's the big deal? Almost 100% more weight with 50% more power doesn't sound too bad to me.
blkmtrfan posted 02-07-2005 12:56 PM ET (US)
Maybe someone could explain to me why this is such a bad idea. Several classic 13 sports were fitted with merc 50 hp 4 cylinders...
The new merc 40 and 60 EFI 4 strokes are built from the same motor so weight is similar...
The only down side I see is the insurance issue???
Is not like having the extra 20 hp is going to come on like some monster in a slasher flick, the boat is still equipped with a throttle, right?
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 02-07-2005 01:29 PM ET (US)
I would think the new 130 sport hull could handle that motor easily.If you call NOS,i'm sure they can make a nice 25-35 hp shot for that outboard hehe
bigjohn1 posted 02-08-2005 01:09 AM ET (US)
2004, interesting comment you make about someone's intellect....I for one have come to respect the opinion of Aquanut. Having an experienced Whaler rigger on this forum just contributes that much more to an already substantial collective experience level of forum members.
I am inclined to agree with "blkmtrfan" on this and don't think its that big a deal as long as the operator respects the abilities of his craft.
Also key to recall is that 4-strokes tend to have flatter "power bands" than 2-strokes (at least in Merc's). That means the power is more smooth and even all the way up as opposed to 2-stroke power that comes on like gang-busters all at once. This is not an absolute rule but a generality I have found to be true over the years. The comment on insurance is valid though as there may be "issues" depending on where you buy insurance.
Big John
high sierra posted 02-08-2005 01:54 PM ET (US)
I bought my 170 from Aquanut and we shared some experiences in conversation from being in the Navy. Let me tell you, this "rigger" was a Chief Warrant Officer in the Navy on a Boomer submarine with a engineering degree. This guy would qualify for anything that required a high IQ. That he finds solace in rigging boats and dispensing knowledge to the members is amazing. AND he's a nice guy with a great wife. Just thought I'd set the records straight. Jim High Sierra
Moe posted 02-08-2005 03:57 PM ET (US)
> The new merc 40 and 60 EFI 4 strokes are built from the same motor so weight is similar...
Yes and no. There is a 40HP version of the 264 lb BigFoot that uses the 996cc 4-cylinder powerhead. However, Whaler, who seems to use BigFoots where possible, for the 130 Sport only uses the 216 lb small foot 40HP, which only has a 747cc 3-cylinder powerhead. It appears to me they consider the additional 48 lbs too much additional weight. The 130 appears to have a lot less freeboard, especially at the stern, than the new 150 and 170 hulls. Check out the pictures on the Whaler website.
I'm guessing aquanut used a 248 lb small foot 60HP, meaning an additional 32 lbs of weight behind the transom over Whaler's 40HP small foot.
--
Moe
2manyboats posted 02-09-2005 08:23 AM ET (US)
Moe , thanks for the weight numbers looks like the 70 omc is the same weight as the 60 Mecury
If I move the 70 to the 13 , your next trip down south I'll take you for a ride . You will have to sit up front because I don't think the boat will have much freeboard with the two of us and the big motor in the back.
Moe posted 02-09-2005 09:23 AM ET (US)
One thing's for sure... you won't have any porpoising problem with me up forward. :-D
--
Moe
2004_130_SPORT posted 02-10-2005 02:03 PM ET (US)
Freeport alan,
rigging a 250 on a 13' boat is probably not a good idea when you hit the throttle on that you are going to end up snaping the transon. but hey it could be fun.
bigjohn1 posted 02-15-2005 07:25 AM ET (US)
Alan, I wonder if your rig will adequately pull a skier with the 250...maybe the 275 is better suited for this?
blkmtrfan posted 02-15-2005 10:57 AM ET (US)
The weight of the Verado would kill the 13 long before the 250 horses were let loose ....
blkmtrfan posted 02-15-2005 11:03 AM ET (US)
And if the weight didn't hurt the transom, the HP wouldn't tear it off either, flip the boat over backwards, yes
captbone posted 02-20-2005 01:09 PM ET (US)
I keep think that the new 2005 70hp ETEC from Evinrude is the real ticket for the 130 sport. Same motor as the 40hp ETEC but just putting out alot more power. I would like it for when I am carring a very heavy load or waterskiing. The idea behind over powering is not top speed but having extra power for the situation that arises.
bigjohn1 posted 02-21-2005 07:36 AM ET (US)
Capt, I agree with you on overpowering as long as we are not talking too extreme and the weight is not an issue. Much more important is the maturity and competency level of the Skipper. Since that last sentence will be interpretted differently dependent upon who reads it, in this case, I define competency as a Skipper who first ensures the 70 E-tec is not too heavy (for the 130) and second, realizes that taking a 130 up to WOT with that engine can be suicide depedent upon water conditions. We have all seen too many idiots on the water who have no business behind the wheel.
Just yesterday I was pulling back into the marina courtesy dock after a day on the water and noticed it was taken up by a young lad in an 18 footer yacking away with a gal-pal. Since it is the only dock, I idled around for a few minutes thinking perhaps a friend was getting the tow vehicle - nope, he was just going to hang out there taking in the beutiful Pacific sunset. I finally asked if he was waiting to trailer his boat and he gave me a dirty look and just said, "No". Out of character for me, I returned the dirty look and said he needed to untie his boat and move as I was coming in and my wife was already waiting with the trailer to retrieve us. Some simply have no clue in life. With a more courteous demeanor, he would have gotten a kind and simple reminder that courtesy docks are for launching and retrieving only.

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Author	Topic: 130 sport with 60hp efi 4 stroke
AQUANUT	posted 08-13-2004 11:49 PM ET (US) anyone got any data to share, just rigged one today, haven't propped it yet.
Florida15	posted 08-14-2004 05:21 PM ET (US) That's a lot of engine for a 13'. How does it sit in the water ?
AQUANUT	posted 08-16-2004 09:25 PM ET (US) well i ran it in the test tank today, it didn't even allow water to come in the deck drain aft..however when i reversed the engine and gave it alot of throttle, some water came in...it would be neccessary to keep the plug in then. the weight difference is minimal...hp is up 50% tho... its a 60hp efi..man o man..should be a runner
HuronBob	posted 08-16-2004 09:28 PM ET (US) this setup would worry me a bit, feels overpowered!
AQUANUT	posted 08-17-2004 10:14 AM ET (US) actually it feels more correct of a match than the 115hp efi 4 stroke i put on my 2004 montauk 170 http://groups.msn.com/montauk170/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
HuronBob	posted 08-17-2004 01:16 PM ET (US) I want to elaborate a bit on my response that it feels over powered.. My experience is with a 13 footer with a 40 hp EFI Merc. Going WOT with this setup, even on very calm water, feels like control is about maxed out. Mind you, this is a seat of the pants evaluation, but I have a difficult time with the concept of increasing the hp another 50%. I'm not sure what the point would be, but I think you would want to be very cautious any time you're using that extra 20hp you've added to the recommended setup for this size boat.... Be careful! Bob
2004_130_SPORT	posted 02-03-2005 05:43 PM ET (US) Aquanut are you crazy or just stupid i have a 2004 130 sport with a 40hp merc and the thing flies its gotta be unsafe with a 60hp motor. And how do you insure something like that. just doesnt sound like a good idea to me.
2manyboats	posted 02-03-2005 06:32 PM ET (US) How much does the 60 weigh ? I keep thinking about moving the 70 (248lbs) from the montauk to one of the 13s and getting a 150hp for the 17.
Freeport Alan	posted 02-05-2005 10:58 PM ET (US) I'm rigging a 250 verado on my 1977 13, was considering the 275 HP model but dont want to do anything foolish
acseatsri	posted 02-06-2005 01:24 PM ET (US) The biggest impediment to me on the 250 vs 275 Verado on the 13 would be the need to run premium fuel in the 275. I'd stick with the 250.
poker13	posted 02-07-2005 10:18 AM ET (US) Well, considering that the 130 weighs almost twice as much as the classic 13, and the classic was rated for 40hp, what's the big deal? Almost 100% more weight with 50% more power doesn't sound too bad to me.
blkmtrfan	posted 02-07-2005 12:56 PM ET (US) Maybe someone could explain to me why this is such a bad idea. Several classic 13 sports were fitted with merc 50 hp 4 cylinders... The new merc 40 and 60 EFI 4 strokes are built from the same motor so weight is similar... The only down side I see is the insurance issue??? Is not like having the extra 20 hp is going to come on like some monster in a slasher flick, the boat is still equipped with a throttle, right?
BOB KEMMLER JR	posted 02-07-2005 01:29 PM ET (US) I would think the new 130 sport hull could handle that motor easily.If you call NOS,i'm sure they can make a nice 25-35 hp shot for that outboard hehe
bigjohn1	posted 02-08-2005 01:09 AM ET (US) 2004, interesting comment you make about someone's intellect....I for one have come to respect the opinion of Aquanut. Having an experienced Whaler rigger on this forum just contributes that much more to an already substantial collective experience level of forum members. I am inclined to agree with "blkmtrfan" on this and don't think its that big a deal as long as the operator respects the abilities of his craft. Also key to recall is that 4-strokes tend to have flatter "power bands" than 2-strokes (at least in Merc's). That means the power is more smooth and even all the way up as opposed to 2-stroke power that comes on like gang-busters all at once. This is not an absolute rule but a generality I have found to be true over the years. The comment on insurance is valid though as there may be "issues" depending on where you buy insurance. Big John
high sierra	posted 02-08-2005 01:54 PM ET (US) I bought my 170 from Aquanut and we shared some experiences in conversation from being in the Navy. Let me tell you, this "rigger" was a Chief Warrant Officer in the Navy on a Boomer submarine with a engineering degree. This guy would qualify for anything that required a high IQ. That he finds solace in rigging boats and dispensing knowledge to the members is amazing. AND he's a nice guy with a great wife. Just thought I'd set the records straight. Jim High Sierra
Moe	posted 02-08-2005 03:57 PM ET (US) > The new merc 40 and 60 EFI 4 strokes are built from the same motor so weight is similar... Yes and no. There is a 40HP version of the 264 lb BigFoot that uses the 996cc 4-cylinder powerhead. However, Whaler, who seems to use BigFoots where possible, for the 130 Sport only uses the 216 lb small foot 40HP, which only has a 747cc 3-cylinder powerhead. It appears to me they consider the additional 48 lbs too much additional weight. The 130 appears to have a lot less freeboard, especially at the stern, than the new 150 and 170 hulls. Check out the pictures on the Whaler website. I'm guessing aquanut used a 248 lb small foot 60HP, meaning an additional 32 lbs of weight behind the transom over Whaler's 40HP small foot. -- Moe
2manyboats	posted 02-09-2005 08:23 AM ET (US) Moe , thanks for the weight numbers looks like the 70 omc is the same weight as the 60 Mecury If I move the 70 to the 13 , your next trip down south I'll take you for a ride . You will have to sit up front because I don't think the boat will have much freeboard with the two of us and the big motor in the back.
Moe	posted 02-09-2005 09:23 AM ET (US) One thing's for sure... you won't have any porpoising problem with me up forward. :-D -- Moe
2004_130_SPORT	posted 02-10-2005 02:03 PM ET (US) Freeport alan, rigging a 250 on a 13' boat is probably not a good idea when you hit the throttle on that you are going to end up snaping the transon. but hey it could be fun.
bigjohn1	posted 02-15-2005 07:25 AM ET (US) Alan, I wonder if your rig will adequately pull a skier with the 250...maybe the 275 is better suited for this?
blkmtrfan	posted 02-15-2005 10:57 AM ET (US) The weight of the Verado would kill the 13 long before the 250 horses were let loose ....
blkmtrfan	posted 02-15-2005 11:03 AM ET (US) And if the weight didn't hurt the transom, the HP wouldn't tear it off either, flip the boat over backwards, yes
captbone	posted 02-20-2005 01:09 PM ET (US) I keep think that the new 2005 70hp ETEC from Evinrude is the real ticket for the 130 sport. Same motor as the 40hp ETEC but just putting out alot more power. I would like it for when I am carring a very heavy load or waterskiing. The idea behind over powering is not top speed but having extra power for the situation that arises.
bigjohn1	posted 02-21-2005 07:36 AM ET (US) Capt, I agree with you on overpowering as long as we are not talking too extreme and the weight is not an issue. Much more important is the maturity and competency level of the Skipper. Since that last sentence will be interpretted differently dependent upon who reads it, in this case, I define competency as a Skipper who first ensures the 70 E-tec is not too heavy (for the 130) and second, realizes that taking a 130 up to WOT with that engine can be suicide depedent upon water conditions. We have all seen too many idiots on the water who have no business behind the wheel. Just yesterday I was pulling back into the marina courtesy dock after a day on the water and noticed it was taken up by a young lad in an 18 footer yacking away with a gal-pal. Since it is the only dock, I idled around for a few minutes thinking perhaps a friend was getting the tow vehicle - nope, he was just going to hang out there taking in the beutiful Pacific sunset. I finally asked if he was waiting to trailer his boat and he gave me a dirty look and just said, "No". Out of character for me, I returned the dirty look and said he needed to untie his boat and move as I was coming in and my wife was already waiting with the trailer to retrieve us. Some simply have no clue in life. With a more courteous demeanor, he would have gotten a kind and simple reminder that courtesy docks are for launching and retrieving only.