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Author Topic:   Towing a Post-Classic, applying the GCWR
Barney posted 10-10-2004 04:57 PM ET (US)   Profile for Barney   Send Email to Barney  
After reading some of the tow information regarding the 170 Montauk, I have two questions: (Plus it's rained for four days straight and I've got cabin fever.)

1) How do you personally add up all of the weights for the different ratings, I want to know what you think and
2) Am I exceeding any of my tow vehicle's ratings? You make the call or guess. I think I know and I've given you a hint.

Boat being towed: 170 Montauk, 2003 version with 4-Stroke 90HP Mercury, bimini, two anchors, one battery, 26 gallons of fuel and an EZ-Loader trailer with spare mounted on tongue and hydraulic vented disk brakes.

Tow vehicle: 2002 Tacoma Truck regular cab, manual, airconditioning, fully fueled. Add ons: bed mounted over the rail aluminum tool box, 2" receiver hitch.

Travel items: Two average adults in cab. Two full suit cases, 50 cases of beer, cooler of food, small box of tools, 12volt air pump, hydraulic jack, 3 fold up chairs and 8 foot by 8 foot fold up canopy. Loaded for bear.
The GCVR for the Tacoma is 6700lbs. The tow rating is 3500lbs. The bumper hitch rating is 350lbs.

WT posted 10-10-2004 06:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Your "empty" Tacoma can tow 3500 pounds.

If you add all the "stuff" you mentioned you are hovering around 3500 pounds which is at the maximum weight your Tacoma can safely tow.

Boat 1400
Motor 400
Trailer 550
Boat Gas 156
Tacoma Gas 120
Tacoma bed 300?
2 Adults 370
2 suitcases 50
tool box 50
anchors, bimini 50
misc 100

Total 3546


Mako posted 10-10-2004 06:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mako  Send Email to Mako     
It can be done, but personally I'd want a 6-cyl to tow a Montauk. I'm towing my 130 with a 22RE and feel it's just about right. You've got a little more truck than me, but that's a lot more boat.

If the launch ramp is a short, flat trip, it should be fine. But if there are any hills involved, you'll want a bigger truck. Opt for the 150 if replacing the truck isn't an option. You can't fit more than 3 people in a regular cab anyway, and the 150 is roomy for 2 and perfect for 3.

YMMV, of course. Hope that helps.

Moe posted 10-10-2004 07:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
You don't try to add it up. You gas up both truck and boat, load 'em exactly the way you'll tow 'em, and take 'em to a certified scale that has separate pads for steer, drive, and trailer axles. After you weigh the whole rig, unhook the trailer and take the truck back across the steer and drive axle pads. That'll let you calculate the tongue weight.


Barney posted 10-10-2004 07:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Here is some more info. I got these definitions from Trailer Life Magazine :

TOW RATING -- The manufacturer's rating of the maximum weight limit that can safely be towed by a particular vehicle. Tow ratings are related to overall trailer weight, not trailer size, in most cases. However, some tow ratings impose limits as to frontal area of the trailer and overall length. Tow ratings are determined by the vehicle manufacturer according to several criteria, including engine size, transmission, axle ratio, brakes, chassis, cooling systems and other special equipment.

GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) -- The maximum allowable weight of the combination of tow vehicle and trailer/ fifth-wheel, or motorhome and dinghy. It includes the weight of the vehicle, trailer/fifth-wheel (or dinghy), cargo, passengers and a full load of fluids (fresh water, propane, fuel, etc.).

Barney posted 10-10-2004 07:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Moe, But I can exceed my GCWR and not my tow rating right? I think I need to get rid of some of the beer in the bed. ;) Jim
Moe posted 10-10-2004 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Towing capacity isn't a rating. It's what you have left for a trailer after subtracting the vehicle's actual weight from its GCWR. If your vehicle's actual weight is greater than that the manufacturer uses to calculate the MAXIMUM towing capacity, then YOUR towing capacity is less than the maximum.

Toyota's assuming an actual truck weight of 3200 lbs when they calculate 3500 lbs maximum trailer weight. With a 2750 lb curb weight, that's only 450 lbs for options, gas, and people in the truck if you want to tow 3500 lbs. Not much.

The maximum the truck can weigh (its GVWR) is 4250 lbs, including tongue weight. Loaded to 4100 lbs with an additional 150 lbs tongue weight, that leaves 6700 minus 4100 = 1600 lbs maximum trailer weight (including the tongue weight). Not even enough for a well-loaded 150 Sport.


Barney posted 10-10-2004 08:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Moe, You scared me. I hope you are 1000 lbs off. Should be 2600 lbs versus 1600 lbs.

So hypothetically it would go like this:

Start with the tow vehicle,
2750 lbs dry, 96 lbs for 16 gallons of gas, 300 lbs for people, 250 lbs tool box/gear/stuff in truck (guess), 200 lbs tongue weight. Leave off the 50 cases of beer listed in original load (that was supposed to be a joke). Total 3596 lbs for tow vehicle loaded. This is all a guess but just say that is what the tow vehicle weighed at the scale loaded.

GCWR of tow vehicle is 6700lbs. So 6700 lbs less 3596 lbs of tow vehicle which leaves 3104 lbs that I can tow, things on the boat and trailer.

I am really close I think. Jim

Moe posted 10-10-2004 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Yep... I made a 1000 lb math error.

When subtracting the truck weight from GCWR to get the max trailer weight, don't include tongue weight in the truck weight. 6700 minus 3400 lbs truck weight would leave you 3300 for the boat, motor, and trailer, with gear, etc.

You WOULD include tongue weight in the truck weight when subtracting from GVWR to make sure you aren't exceeding that.

Barney posted 10-10-2004 09:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
So WT, with your numbers I would add 3546 lbs to the dry curb weight of the truck at 2750 lbs for a total of 6296 lbs. This is within the GCWR of 6700 lbs. Jim
Barney posted 10-10-2004 09:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Thanks Moe, gotcha. Jim
Maximus posted 10-10-2004 09:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Maximus  Send Email to Maximus     

The real question isn't whether your tow vehicle can pull the load, but can your tow vehicle can stop the load.

I think your tacoma coupled with your trailer brakes is more than adequate. The stopping question is probably the most overlooked aspect of towing. The Tacoma has a ~140 HP engine with a long stroke and gobs of torque. This is perfectly adequate for towing almost anything. You really only need a fraction of that horsepower to achieve highway speeds.

As you may already know, I tow a very similar package with a very well broken-in 2WD, 22RE, 5 speed tacoma. I have never had a problem getting to and maintaining highway speeds (55-60 MPH). As for ramps, the only issue is traction with 2WD and wet surfaces. A couple of people adding ballast to the bed usually helps.

Just an for calculation collected from google

Gallon of water = 8.34 lb
Beer ~ 105% of water
50 cases of beer = 1200 16 oz beers = 19200 oz = 150 gallons
150 x 8.34 x 1.05 = 1313 lb!!!

Barney posted 10-10-2004 10:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Maximus, You win the prize! I was hoping to discuss how many beers I could carry in the truck's bed and stay within the GCWR. I've already got 60,000 miles on the Tacoma and love the 26 mpg solo. It's here to stay. Jim
Maximus posted 10-10-2004 10:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Maximus  Send Email to Maximus     
My tacoma get 26-27 mpg with normal driving. My father's new tacoma (2003) 4 cylinder automatic only gets ~20 mpg.

Maximus posted 10-10-2004 10:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Maximus  Send Email to Maximus     
For someone else to figure out....

Can you fit 50 cases of bear (cans) in a 6 x 5 bed with wheel wells?

Barney posted 10-10-2004 10:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Wow that must be a PreRunner.
mikeyairtime posted 10-14-2004 12:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
My last truck was a Tacoma 2wd 4 cylinder 5 speed. Great truck and a perfect match for a 170. If I didn't have a 9000 pound travel trailer I'd be towing my 170 with one.
2manyboats posted 10-14-2004 05:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for 2manyboats  Send Email to 2manyboats     
Jim, if I had known you had that much beer I would have stayed under your tent more in orange beach.
2manyboats posted 10-14-2004 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for 2manyboats  Send Email to 2manyboats     
We always bring a case per person per day. That way we don't run out til middle of the second day.
Barney posted 10-14-2004 05:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Jeff, I can vouch for your ability not to run out. ;) Jim
Barney posted 10-14-2004 07:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
I just realized Maximus figured 16oz beers. They get hot too quickly down here. So someone please recalculate! With 12oz beers it's 985lbs for 50 cases.


GCWR of tow vehicle is 6700lbs. So 6700 lbs less 3596 lbs of tow vehicle which leaves 3104 lbs that I can tow, things on the boat, in the bed and trailer. If we use AQUANUT's real numbers of 2250 lbs and add 100 lbs for grins that leaves only 754 lbs for beer. Somewhere around 38 cases.

Maximus posted 10-14-2004 10:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Maximus  Send Email to Maximus     
It's going to be a long winter.

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