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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Why the Dauntless?
|Author||Topic: Why the Dauntless?|
posted 10-16-2004 02:07 AM ET (US)
Please, this is not to be taken as a negative towards the Dauntless line. What I am asking is why now that the Legend Series has the Nantucket, the MONTUAK and now the Eastport and the Outrage Series reaches down to 21 feet why duplicate your lineup with a third set of CC boats from 16 to 22 feet? What makes these boats unique enough to warrant their continued production or vice versa? It just seems like BW could either cut the Dauntless line and maybe reduce costs on the other lines as a result or introduce a boat series that is different from the others significantly. I don't get it but maybe I am missing something here. Dauntless 16--MONTUAK 170. Dauntless 18---Nantucket 190. Dauntless 22--Outrage 21 and Eastport 20. Is it smart to market a boat in one foot increments? And the pricing does not even follow the footage! J
posted 10-16-2004 09:05 AM ET (US)
Very, very different boats. Dauntless are lake or inshore boats, best suited for cruising around with mamma and the kids, off shore performance is a definite secondary consideration. Outrage are offshore fishing machines.
Legend series center consoles are designed as a) lower price point boats and b) geared more toward offshore performance and Whaler purists.
On the dauntless, you pay more for the "toys:, though generally boats are priced per pound, not per foot.
posted 10-16-2004 09:45 AM ET (US)
I would have to disagree with plotman a little. I'd have to say the V hull of my D14 [Dauntless 14?] is much smoother in a chop or seas than any comparable sport model. Very dry and I believe corners better.
The Dauntless hull I believe is more like an Outrage hull than any other.
And Dauntlesses are maybe more flashy and sleek than the Outrage models which are more utilitarian.
I just think the Dauntless line just fits a different niche for Whaler.
posted 10-16-2004 11:16 AM ET (US)
Any 14 footer is an inshore boat.
posted 10-16-2004 12:03 PM ET (US)
Plotman, see, I am still confused because I thought the Ventura line in the 18 and 20 footer was the ride moma and the kids around the lake boats--not the Dauntless. So still, I am confused why this third group of center console boats. For example, Boston Whaler does not make any flats boats or performance boats/jet/ski/play. Why not drop the redundant Dauntless (if it is redundant) and come out with a new series that fills a purpose not covered by the present offerings? What does the Dauntless 18 have that the Nantucket 190 does not--I don't get it? It has more niceities--such as? Well, they do have an optional ski pylon and that is a nice touch. J
posted 10-16-2004 12:41 PM ET (US)
The Dauntless 18 has a "sofa." Women play a much more influential role in boat purchases these days. The Dauntless series plays to them, while still being a better fishing boat than the Ventura, which is a Dauntless hull, except at the 21' size, where it's an Outrage.
Even at the 16' size, the transom seats are a big attraction. At the 22' size, the console head is a huge attraction, and is larger than that in the side console of the big Ventura.
Large, underfloor fuel tanks can eliminate the nasty and scary refueling on the water all weekend, as well as the ugly gas tank on deck, and provide more storage for "stuff."
The deadrise of the Dauntless is a bit steeper than the Legend series for a little smoother ride in chop, without the nauseating rocking of the steeper Outrage at anchor and beam seas. That additional deadrise requires more engine power than the Legends, but not as much as the Outrage. The draft is a little deeper than the Legends, but not as deep as the Outrages, where shoal water is concerned.
The Legend series, especially at the Montauk size, has traditionally been a lower-priced series with fewer amenities, requiring less (expensive) power. Rather than being stuck with the Whaler fishing setup, which is a plus to some, they offer greater potential for customization.
On the downside, the Dauntless's large, heavy, aft fuel tanks make them stern-heavy, and using the aft seats compounds that. Many, if not most, find that a motor hydrofoil or trim tabs are needed for good performance.
Despite this, and a price much higher than the Legends, Whaler sells a ton of Dauntless models, especially at the 16' size. Perhaps some of that is a much higher markup that allows greater discounts, but as long as that continues, they'll keep making them. That's the bottom line.
posted 10-17-2004 12:34 PM ET (US)
When I went to pick out my Nantucket there was also a Dauntless 18 there I think it was across from the Nantucket and the Montauk. It did seem to have a slightly deeper V or at least slightly sharper, but then oddly the Nantucket had noticeably more freeboard from the cockpit floor to the top of the gunwales. Both boats have a sharp entry, both boats have similar equipment, both boats have large underfloor fuel tanks of about 60-gallons I think. Both boats are 8 feet beam. The Nantucket only has two small stern seats and a swim platform, the Dauntless has that euro back and a flop over bench it appears. My wife asked the question, she asked me "why that Nantucket looked different?" I told her that was a Dauntless 18. She said "oh, why do they make two boats the same size?"
On one thread around here someone said the Nantucket did not have a cockpit floor like the Dauntless but was the bathtub type like the MONTUAK. I don't think this is true. The Nantucket cockpit seemed deeper but was not the bathtub type like the MONTUAK (which I kinda liked) and it is certainly self bailing and of their unibond type contruction. Oh well, no big deal, just wondering. I guess the answer to my question is that there really is no answer. They do because they do until they don't. J
posted 10-17-2004 04:45 PM ET (US)
Here are some links that discuss in some more details the difference between the 180 Dauntless and the 190 Nantucket
posted 10-17-2004 08:32 PM ET (US)
Thanks Eric, yes I read that thread some time back before settling on the 'tucket 190.
posted 04-27-2004 11:48 AM ET (US)
This was the post that if I understand correctly says that the Nantucket does not have an inner cockpit liner. Unless I misunderstand then I have to say this is not true as the 'tucket 190 certainly has an inner unibond liner and self bailing cockpit. The only difference I see from this standpoint is that the 190 has about 3 more inches of freeboard and seems to have a deeper hull. But--like I said, oddly, the 190 seems slightly sharper at the bow and slightly more rounded at the transom. As was speculated by another--I also don't think they share hulls, the hulls as mentioned are really quite different it seems. J
posted 10-18-2004 09:57 AM ET (US)
Whaler rates the 180 Dauntless as 20" of interior freeboard and the 190 Nantucket as 22", assuming they're measuring them in relatively the same place. That compares to 24" in the 210 Outrage.
posted 10-18-2004 01:48 PM ET (US)
I have been looking at both the Nantucket and the 18 Dauntless. The Dauntless is my choice for the following four reasons: The Dauntless will fit in my garage where the Nantucket is 18 inches taller. I also like the lower freeboard. It is just 2 in. but I liked it better. I like the bench seat with the storage and the ability to fold the seat down into a "fishing deck/platform". I like the reversible seat of the dauntless versus the Nantuckets leaning post or pedestal seats. Most of my boating is inland on the barge canal, finger lakes, and St. Lawrence river in NY state. I rode in both at separate times and I like the Dauntless better. It seemed more nimble.
You chose the Nantucket where in my case the Dauntless seems to fit better. The Nantucket seems to be geared toward deep water fishing where the Dauntless seems more for inland water sports. Just my thoughts.
posted 10-18-2004 05:10 PM ET (US)
I think that when they talk about an inner cockpit liner, they are talking about the difference that is evidenced on the Outrage 18 vs. the Outrage 19 II models.
The "Legend" or classic hulls have two layers of fiberglass..that on the outside hull, then foam and then the fiberglass on the inside hull.
The Outrage 19 II model introduced an additional cockpit liner - essentially a second floor on top of the first floor to allow for additional molded hatches and storage. This added about 800 pounds to the specified hull weight between the two otherwise identical (exterior) hulls.
The Dauntless continues this with an inner hull liner to provide the creature comforts, etc.
Unlike the 150 and 170, the 190 (and 205 Eastport?) does have integral fuel tanks, but do NOT have this extra hull liner...which I believe contributes to the "Legend" series designation.
I agree that they are getting crowded at certain lenghts with similar models, but I believe that they are sucessfully marketing each to different buyers - and successfully so.
It would be interesting to see a Boston Whaler flats boat.
The bass boat market seems to be out for them in part, since they steadfastly and historically refuse to rate their smaller hulls with the big power that that crowd demands.
Plus, I suspect that Brunswick has a master plan for their various companies...none competing too agressively with the other so that they can offer an extensive array of boating opportunities to a very broad spectrum of potential boaters.
posted 10-18-2004 05:43 PM ET (US)
The Dauntless 22 is a rockstar in this area. Larger boats (22-25 feet) that have a fairly shallow draft and low interior freeboard (like the 22's 20" interior freeboard) are the ticket in the large, shallow bays down here.
posted 10-19-2004 05:20 AM ET (US)
"Unlike the 150 and 170, the 190 (and 205 Eastport?) does have integral fuel tanks, but do NOT have this extra hull liner...which I believe contributes to the "Legend" series designation."
I may be wrong but I do not think that the 150 and 170 have integral tanks. The 190 and the Eastport do. The 190's 60 gallon fuel tank is below the inner cockpit liner deck in a molded in recess which therefore fits the description I think given for the molded inner lining. There also appear to be several molded passage ways in this liner that allow for cables and such to keep them below the deck level. It does appear simplified in that there are no fish wells or other large storage areas molded in which might also require drains etc. I should have spent more time looking the Dauntless over to fully understand the differences.
posted 10-19-2004 09:53 AM ET (US)
Yes...let me reconfirm that sentence with long spaces to help clarify...(it was poorly written).
Unlike the 150 and 170 (which do not have integral tanks.....the 190 (and 205 Eastport?) DOES have integral tanks tanks...
I think we mean the same thing...
posted 10-19-2004 10:11 AM ET (US)
Actually, Boston Whaler does have models of shallow running flats boats. A couple of other companies took it upon themselves to make them using Whaler hulls:
posted 10-22-2004 10:41 PM ET (US)
The latest Boating Mag has a review of the Dauntless 22. Check it out. Much more "versatile" boat than the legend or outrage series.
posted 10-25-2004 06:56 PM ET (US)
Just another month will wrap up my first season with my 2003 dauntless 22. There is not a single regret I have about this boat.
You know the usual specs, it has a head, large gas tank, etc, and in reality the lower freeboard is absolutely great, keeps me dry in 2-3 foot chop in the bay. The dockyard guys marveled about how beamy it is when they saw it the other day.
Took me 25 years to decide on one (grew up wanting a Whaler but did not get one until my 42nd year). Looked at and tested almost 40 boats (the hunt is 75% of the fun of buying a boat). Outrage 22 was a tossup but found it has too much freeboad feels like a bucket, and really takes away from flat deck space, but that is just my opinion. It seems that the dauntless has about 15% more deck space because of the lower freeboard. I have a 200hp which gets me up to about 45mph, more than enough for me.
Here she is:
posted 10-26-2004 06:12 AM ET (US)
Beautiful boat. There was a short but favorable blurb in Boating.
posted 10-27-2004 12:37 PM ET (US)
At the Big Lake (NH) get together this summer, I saw George Hurst's 2004 Dauntless 22.
I was very impressed. I really liked the rear bench seat, and bow seating. For leisure, this boat was great for all of us to relax on.
George was a great host too.
If I only had a bigger garage and a winning lottery ticket!
posted 10-27-2004 03:20 PM ET (US)
As a designer, I don't care for the huge, out of proportion "jiffy john" console in the 22 Dauntless, otherwise I like the boat. And it looks like a Whaler, too, when seen from the bow. I think the newer 18 Dauntless console is the best looking console Whaler currently offers, and this would be super in a 22 Dauntless also. (and would be super in a 170 Montauk too)
posted 10-27-2004 05:08 PM ET (US)
That settles it. I'm buying LHG a Dauntless 22 console for Christmas. Wonder how he's going to react when he sees it mounted on his Outrage 25 Christmas morning?
posted 10-27-2004 05:28 PM ET (US)
Texas - I'd be happy to accept your Christmas gift of the 22 Dauntless console. I figure I could re-sell it on E-bay to some construction company for use at one of their jobsites!
posted 10-29-2004 11:15 AM ET (US)
The 'jiffy john" console is what turned my wife into a boater. I finished my first season with a used 22 Dauntless and had a great summer. From Center Hill in Tennessee, to Mobile Bay and 4 or so miles off of Gulf Shores, great boat. We cruised, trolled for mackeral, tubed and skiied the same boat.
posted 10-29-2004 02:28 PM ET (US)
Don't get me wrong, folks. I like the 22 Dauntless and it's low profile. I just happen to think in a 22' open boat, floor space is what makes the boat enjoyable, and functional for many activities, including fishing. I don't think so much space should be wasted for a toilet, which gets used less than 1% of the time in the boat.
It's also why, I think a "convertible style" Mills Forward Shelter, is 50 times more functional for on the water privacy needs and weather protection for guests, than a giant walk-in console, in an otherwise open boat. The canvas Forward Shelter was a brilliant design idea, going back 40 years on Whalers, and is still under utilized to this day
posted 10-30-2004 09:14 AM ET (US)
If we want to look at this issue a bit more scientifically, it would be interesting to figure the amount of percentage of deck space taken up by the center console of the Dauntless 22, versus other smaller models. My general impression is that it is of the same proportion as other models like the Outrage 21, and the "classics" I have seen, so my experience is very different than LHG's. And the Outrage 21 '02 and the under 21 Whalers do not even have a head for their console, so one could opine that it is really a center console without a John that is taking up space without full utility. In Whalers I have seen, deck space is actually more a function of freeboard and seating design than the console.
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