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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
MONTAUK 170: Negotiating Price and Waves
|Author||Topic: MONTAUK 170: Negotiating Price and Waves|
posted 11-23-2004 11:24 PM ET (US)
I am in the Jacksonville area and considering buying a new 170 Montauk with a 90- four-stroke. If possible I would like to use the boat for inshore and offshore fishing.
What are the biggest waves that this boat can handle?
Would anyone advise taking this boat offshore? If so how far?
When enroute offshore what is a typical cruise speed in the chop?
Can you talk the dealer down from the MSRP?
Any other information that someone new to boating should know before buying a new boat?
posted 11-24-2004 07:55 AM ET (US)
I've used my 2003 Montauk with the 90-HP four-stroke in New Jersey for two seasons and can offer my thoughts. Waves 1-2 feet are no problem. You can cruise comfortably at 17-20 knots. When seas are in the 2-4-foot. range, you have to proceed more slowly at 8-12 knots, but the boat can certainly handle the chop. My experience is that with 3-5 foot seas, it is best to stay inshore or fish the back bays and save yourself a beating. The boat is very stable adrift and rolls very little. Your range is limited by how much pounding you want to take, but if you pick days for offshore trips, rather than go offshore no matter what the weather is, you'll enjoy the boat within its limitations.
posted 11-24-2004 08:08 PM ET (US)
1) The Montauk can easily take on 10 foot waves if they are 15 seconds or more apart.
2) Yes. A lot of guys take their Montauks 25 miles west of the Golden Gate Bridge. (Better get a Pate Gas Tank of 24 gallons or more.)
3) It has taken me 2.5 hours to travel 12-14 miles in BAD chop. 5-6 mph. (A very unpleasant ride.)
4) I got a $1500 rebate during a boat show, you should be able to get the same.
5) Shop around for other boats that suit your boating needs. There should be boat shows coming up in your area soon.
posted 11-23-2004 08:54 PM ET (US)
I got caught in a squal on Lake Mojave [in a 2004 170 Montauk with a 90 HP four stroke] that brought out the storm flags and blew over 60-MPH. Waves were breaking over the bow and the bimini was acting like a sail and was in real danger of ripping off. We were able to make about 5-10 kts straight into it and 10 to 15 in the trough. I regularly take mine to Catalina Island and have been 35 miles out in it. When it's calm I cruise at about 22 kts with the wife 2 kids a 28 gallon bait tank and a 27 gallon Pate fuel tank and 30 extra gallons of fuel. I regularly run home from Catalina island as late as 4:00 in the afternoon and can make about 14-15 kts. through the slop but it's a physically demanding deal, make no mistake about it, rough and wet. The up side is I can marlin fish on a tuna sandwich budget.
posted 11-23-2004 09:14 PM ET (US)
My 1998 Montauk 17 takes a 3' chop very nicely, I throttle down to 3500 rpms put the bow up high and she slogs along very nicely.
posted 11-23-2004 10:11 PM ET (US)
I presume you are talking about a Montauk 170.
We have a 2002 model with the four-stroke. We are located in Georgetown, SC. In my opinion this is a marvelous boat. In order to get to the ocean we have to go through the jetties of Winyah Bay. Sometimes, depending upon the wind and tide, this means going through a good 3-4 raging sea. It performs beautifully--handles well and the only time you'll get spray is in a quartering sea. Have had it out to about 17nm. Would go more if we wanted to carry extra fuel.
I don't know if any dealer will give you a "deal".
posted 11-23-2004 10:19 PM ET (US)
Most offshore fishermen will tell you that for most conditions that can come up out in the ocean quickly 20 to 23 feet is minimum size on any boat. The problem with anything smaller is freeboard and the cork/bobber effect you get on any smaller boat. You get tossed overboard. If the weather is going to calm with 0 to 3 footers and no low pressure system on the radar, go for it. The other problem is range of fuel offshore. Jacksonville offshore is 10 miles and more, in some cases much more. Offshore in Lauderdale is 5 miles.
posted 11-23-2004 11:17 PM ET (US)
I think that the best way to describe what a Whaler can handle is what can you handle. I think most owners will agree that their boat can outlast them. It may just get a little rough. MSRP is not the right term. Whaler currently has a National Selling price. You can go to The whaler website and price out your legend series boat and that will be prettly close to what you pay. They don't know what the freight and prep are in that specific area of the country. I think it is great that Whaler has made the pricing on the legend series extremely aggressive but it is tough for consumers to understand. We don't have the room to discount legend boats like the other models.
posted 11-24-2004 09:44 AM ET (US)
I take issue with the notion that there is some certain size that makes a boat offshore worthy. A 20+ foot Striper couldn't keep up with my 170 running home through the slop the other day. We slowly reeled him in and passed him which prompted him to try to keep up for a while and then we slowly pulled away. I think to see a significant improvement in true seaworthyness takes a bigger jump than a few feet. If I was upgrading from my 170 I'd shoot for 25-26 foot. Make no mistake about it though, going offshore in a 170 is a big deal and I'm definately limited by it's size, but it fits in the garage, is relatively cheap, burns little fuel and with patience, care and planning can get you out where the high rollers fish.
posted 11-24-2004 08:28 PM ET (US)
[Consolidated duplicate threads running concurrently in different forums on same topic.]
posted 11-24-2004 08:50 PM ET (US)
Even when the price of a particular product is rather tightly controlled by the manufacturer through pressure on the dealers not to undercut each other, a creative dealer usually finds a way to add value to his particular boat offered for sale. You might find that the selling price of a 170 MONTAUK is quoted at or near the suggested price, but then a lot of other stuff gets thrown into the deal at no charge or at very reduced prices.
As others mentioned, the price on the 170 MONTAUK is really quite aggressive. Go to a boat show and shop around to see what the same money can buy you in another boat brand. I think you will see the 170 is not priced like Boston Whalers of old, where they were a 50-percent premium above every other boat at the boat show.
There was a round up article a year ago comparing five 17-foot center console boats, including the 170 MONTAUK. The Boston Whaler was--to the total surprise of almost everyone--the least expensive boat.
As for going "offshore" it is a matter of your confidence in a single engine boat, how much fuel you can carry, and how gutsy you feel.
Performance data shows the boat getting over 6-MPG. With a 24-gallon tank that is at least 125 miles of range at optimum cruise.
That is a long run offshore and back.
There is no small boat that is really comfortable in a seaway with 3-5 foot waves. There are just degrees of discomfort.
posted 11-25-2004 12:14 AM ET (US)
If you don't have a bunch of Franklins you need to unload between now and February, or an absolute need to fish tomorrow, head to Miami to the Miami International Boat Show in February. Boat shows are good for extended engine warranties as just the beginning of the "perks". If you go on Thursday, you can make deals like: "I'll take that display model home with me when you're done with the show, scuff marks and all".
posted 11-26-2004 07:33 AM ET (US)
I just want to say thanks for all the replies. The forum is great!
posted 11-27-2004 03:40 PM ET (US)
One more thing: Check the forecasts before going offshore.
There are days to go, and days to stay home (note that since
it's noon on Saturday, this is a day to stay home here in
.TODAY...SW WINDS 15 TO 25 KT BECOMING NW AND INCREASING TO
Back to cleaning up the darkroom.
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