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Author Topic:   New Classics vs old Classics???
jafra98 posted 01-22-2005 07:41 AM ET (US)   Profile for jafra98   Send Email to jafra98  
I had an 86 BW 13 with a 50 hp yamaha. I sold it and now want a new boat. How does it compares to the 130 sport?
I'm in range from the 130 sport to the 170, but I'm leaning to the 150 sport. Any help........
Moe posted 01-22-2005 09:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Welcome to continuousWhaler.

You can find the specifications of your prior 13', as well as those of other "old Classics" in the reference section of this website here:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/

You can find the specifications of the "new Classics" to compare to the "old" ones, here on the Boston Whaler website:

http://www.whaler.com

In general, the new boats are heavier because they're much larger than their "old" counterparts. In overall length X width area, the 150 Sport is about as large as the "old" Montauk 17. And the 170 Montauk is bigger and MUCH roomier inside, especially around the console and seat, than its predecessor.

As the second generation Whalers in 1976 evolved away from the original tri-hull design for a better ride, so have the third generation in 2000 and later. This is especially true for the 150 Sport and 170 Montauk hulls, which are more deep-V forward, with much smaller sponsons and reverse chines. The 150 and 170 also have greater freeboard. The cost of this is that the "new" Classics aren't as fast as the "old Classics, with the same horsepower.

The 130 Sport keeps the older features to a much greater degree, so the ride is not improved quite as much. It has more of the sponsons, and greater reverse chine all the way to the stern, as the older 13s did. The 130 Sport also maintains the lower freeboard of the "old" Classics, as you can see from the pictures of it in the water on the Whaler website.

Also, on 2004 and later models, the trailers for the 150 and 170 have swing-tongues, reducing their length in the garage.

We really love our 150 Sport. The 66" wide main seat gives as much hip room for three adults between the railings as our Ford F250 pickup truck front seat provides between the door armrests. The middle seat accomodates 1 large adult with room to step by them, or two children, and it's removable. Its ride in Lake Erie chop is smooth enough for my wife with ruptured disk. Great choice.

The 170 Montauk is also very popular here. The ability to stand in chop is a plus, as is the room to fish all the way around the boat without stepping over seats.

Hope this helps,
--
Moe

Moe posted 01-22-2005 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
I might also mention that in 2004, Whaler changed the name of this category of boats from "Classics" to "Legends." Only new boats from model year 2003 and earlier are "new Classics." :-)

--
Moe

Freeport Alan posted 01-22-2005 10:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Freeport Alan    
" as the second generation whaler in 1976 evolved from it's tri hull design for a better ride so has the third generation in 2000 & later "

Moe,
I think the Jurys still out on that one.
I believe theres more room, more gunnel & weight but as far as ride, & quality goes I'm not too sure.
It's too early to tell if they will last 30 years & still look good & be sound like so many classics do.
I dont think the post classic's look as good personally.
But they are a quality boat..
Also one has to wonder what the did { or didnt do } to cut the price on the post classic models..

Moe posted 01-22-2005 11:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Alan, I suspect it depends on who's on the jury! :-)

Those who've upgraded from the older to newer models rave about the improvement in ride. I feel the 150 Sport rides as well, if not better, than a classic (smirked) Montauk 17 we rented and took out through the Pensacola pass on a fairly choppy day.

We're now in the fourth model year of new 170 production, and the third of the 150. There's quite a large owner sampling on this forum, with considerable evidence the quality hasn't suffered. In 30 years, those cared for will still be around in good shape, and most of those neglected will be too, but in the same poor shape, including some waterlogged, as many of the older design boats around today.

And there will be newer hull designs and owners of older ones saying the new ones are unproven. :-)

--
Moe

Freeport Alan posted 01-22-2005 12:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Freeport Alan    
Maybe it's hard to compute that there was room for improvement, sounds corny but how does one improve on perfection ? LOL ..
One fault I had with my 15 { 1987 } sport for example was the low gunnels, the new ones have improved on that..
I would like to test a new Montauk one day & compare it to the classic's ride, heck I guess the Jurys out for me !
I'm sure theres people whove owned a classic Montauk then the new style & prefer the classic.
That would make an interesting thread !
highanddry posted 01-22-2005 12:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
The new Legend series are quality boats. They are probably better built than the older versions or at least equal to. I cannot see that the prices have been exactly cut all that much. Package dealing is responsible for most of that.

There have already been several threads comparing ride quality. The "jury is only out" in the minds of the classic owners who either have not had the 170 out or who refuse to accept reality.If I sound testy, I tire of having the quality of my smirkless 190 and other Legend series being besmirched.

Another often brought up argument is weight---OK, I do believe the newer boats are a tad heavier, heavier contruction and more boat with deeper hulls and sides and width. That said, I frankly think the brochure weights of older classics are BUNK. Thats right, I don't beleive them.

At this point I will bow out of another mine is better argument that is redundant and based only on opinion and antedotal evidence. Better is in the mind of the beholder and if somone is happy with what they got then I am happy for them. J

jafra98 posted 01-22-2005 01:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for jafra98  Send Email to jafra98     
I sold my boat to buy a personal watercraft, what a big mistake. In calm waters my boat could keep up with almost any pwc out there(not the new 200 HP machines out there today) and then the pwc spent more time on the mechanic than on the water. I want a BW again.
Moe posted 01-22-2005 02:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
If you're concerned about speed, the 150 Sport is a 24 mph at 4,500 rpm cruise boat with the 4-stroke 60HP, with a top speed around 35 mph. The 170 Montauk is a 31 mph at 4500 rpm cruise boat with the 4-stroke 90HP, with a top speed around 42 mph. Neither would be a good choice to try keep up with today's jet skis, but as you note, they're a hell of a lot more versatile than a jet ski.

The performance charts for each boat are available on the Whaler website.
--
Moe

jafra98 posted 01-22-2005 02:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for jafra98  Send Email to jafra98     
I dont want to be a speed racer, it could run in the mid 30's and I'll be fine.
jafra98 posted 01-22-2005 02:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jafra98  Send Email to jafra98     
I think I'm staying with the 2 stroke.
Moe posted 01-22-2005 02:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
This is probably the last model year you'll have that option on the 150 Sport. The 170 will probably still be available with the Optimax two-stroke after that.

--
Moe

Freeport Alan posted 01-22-2005 03:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Freeport Alan    
High & Dry,
I tend to agree with you on the weight issue with the classic Whalers.
Also after theyre a couple years old they often have some moisture in the foam, add the hardware, wood, no featherweights.
I wonder if they are weighed without the wood & hardware or estimated by the factory?
I've got a 1977 13 sport presently with a soild deck but I'd be willing to bet she's over 400lbs without the engine which is what I was hoping for when the winds kicked up to 25 knots one afternoon last season having 10 miles of bay to cover in wind swept 3 footers..LOL
Theres other boat builders that seem to list thier boats on the light side, Contender comes to mind.

thanks for the replys

jafra98 posted 02-11-2005 02:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jafra98  Send Email to jafra98     
How about the BW 130 speed potential with the 40 hp 2 stroke??
Is that engine a 3 cil or a 2 cil?? How about putting an S&S propeller??
Moe posted 02-11-2005 02:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
The answer to the performance question is the "Performance Data" link on Boston Whaler's 130 Sport web page.

http://www.whaler.com/Rec/default.asp?content=boats&family=legend&number=130&type=Sport

Performance Data for 130 Sport with various motors:

http://www.whaler.com/Rec/pdfs/130SportEng.pdf

The answer to the motor cylinders question is on Mercury's 40HP Classic web page (it's 3 cylinder):

http://www.mercurymarine.com/mercury_40_classic

Information on S&S props is here:

http://www.sspropeller.com/products/propellers/
--
Moe

jafra98 posted 02-11-2005 04:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for jafra98  Send Email to jafra98     
Thanks Moe for the links, but how about real life performance from the ones that have tested the boat?
Buckda posted 02-11-2005 04:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Highanddry -

I am suprised by your post above. Clearly there has been some controversy over the 150 and 170 models, however the 190 Nantucket has generally been very well accepted here on this site. I for one would love to run side by side with one in my 18' Outrage, and then switch boats and run side by side back again....that would be a real treat someday. In fact, if I were in the market for a NEW boat, that would be my choice.

I agree with Moe - while some disagree, the newest models of the 150 Sport and 170 Montauk almost HAVE to have a better all around ride than the predecessors. The added weight and hull design make this a certainty (except in a following sea, where I think the classic hullform really shines and outperforms almost every other boat out there).

Jafra - the 150 Sport is probably the perfect boat for you, fast and fun, but also big enough to go out and play in the bigger water too.

erik selis posted 02-11-2005 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Dave, I think the controversy over the 150 and the 170 has become much less over the past year or more, compared to when these boats were launched. I guess it's because owners of these boats seem to be very pleased with them in general.
I'm not sure if switching boats is such a good idea, you may not want to switch back :-)

Freeport Alan, I strongly suggest you take a ride in the 170 Montauk. Preferably with some chop. I am sure you will be surprised at the difference.

Erik

Buckda posted 02-11-2005 05:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Eric....yes, you are right...I might not want to, but the old girl has such character! Nope. If I liked the Nantucket that well, I'd probably just start putting my pennies away toward a down payment and pick up a new one for myself.

Two Whalers are better than one, right?

erik selis posted 02-11-2005 05:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Dave, I totally agree and I also think you nailed it when you used the word character. I think it's the character that makes the classic Whalers so appealing.

Erik

billsa posted 02-11-2005 10:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for billsa  Send Email to billsa     
Jafra 98
I have 03 150 sport with a 60 hp 4-stroke, and love it! It is
all the boat I need and more. But - it is no speedboat. If you are looking to cruise in the mid 30's - the 150 4 stroke just won't get it done. At WOT I can squeeze 35 out of mine and that is about it. It cruises comfortably in the mid 20's with 2 - 3 people on board. I am willing to live with that for what I would call the 4-stroke advantage; instant starts, virtually silent idle and low speed operation, and no smoke. Although: I understand that you can get most of that now with the newer efi 2-strokes. I was at the ramp this past weekend and saw a new 50 hp e-tech in operation and was quite impressed. Perhaps BW/Mercury will soon offer a comparable 2-stroke motor in that hp range for the 150. That may boost the top end and cruise for that particular model. I agree with Moe - the dirty 2-stoke is probably done.
dittybag54 posted 02-12-2005 06:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for dittybag54  Send Email to dittybag54     

The Whalers built today will be fondly remembered in 2025. The construction of mine is top-notch; not perfect but really good. Despite its size, we have found the ride to be quite good most days. We run 23 to 30 M.P.H. in comfort on relatively smooth water. Obviously some days on the ICW, it is more fun to go one way than the other. We have been bounced quite nicely, thank you, going back towards the west in the afternoons. We just slow down and enjoy the scenery. We only get wet (and occasionally out of sorts) when the waves are parallel to the boat, usually when moving slowly, (low freeboard has both good points and bad)

Each step up in model naturally leads to more comfort on the water but for us the 130's handy portability is the ticket. Keep in mind that most of our motor boating has been in a 10 ft. inflatable with a 9.9. (Ex-sailors obviously) We like to putter around coastal areas and the nooks and crannies of rivers or lakes. We often trailer long distances to do so and this boat has made it simple. We call it our super inflatable but without the pump. If we did not travel as much, Moe and others have really sold me on the merits of the 150. If we were closer to water, we would very possibly want something even bigger than that.

We really like our 2003 130 Sport for many reasons but Moe's link to the engine specs raises an interesting point. My stock motor is the 2 stroke 40 Classic but it truly is a classic; it is a two not a three cylinder. It was a special model built for Whaler according to the VIN at Mercury. It 'seems' essentially to be the 2 cylinder model still sold overseas as a Mariner.

Have fun Whaler shopping.

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