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Author Topic:   23 outrage vs 24 outrage
kjs862 posted 07-08-2005 06:50 AM ET (US)   Profile for kjs862   Send Email to kjs862  
I'm in the market for a 23 outrage. I do mostly fishing out jones beach inlet, but sometimes I cruise around with a few buddies. Recently I came accross a 1998 23 outrage that seems nice. I am curious to how the 23 outrage's ride compare to other outrages. The most dry smooth ride would be ideal for me. I also heard the 22 outrage gave a nice ride. Comments would be highly appreciated.


kjs862 posted 07-08-2005 06:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for kjs862  Send Email to kjs862     
One other thing, what are the main differences from the 23 outrage (1998) to the newer 24 outrage?


SeaBiscuit posted 07-08-2005 09:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for SeaBiscuit  Send Email to SeaBiscuit     
Hi Ken,
not sure I can address all your questions, but here goes: I have a 1999 23 outrage with twin 150 Yamaha two strokes. Very big (for a 23) very fast, very dry. A little stern heavy, a little "bumpy" unless bow is trimmed down all the way. Very good boat IMO. The 24 is styled differently but weighs about the same and is rated for max 300 HP (same as the 23). I imagine it is vey similar to the 23 with more transom length and floatation.
I hope this helps
bluewaterpirate posted 07-08-2005 10:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
The 240 has a completely redesigned hull. More deadrise. The new hull design has a smoother ride than the 23. You can't go wrong with either hull.


diveorfish posted 07-09-2005 02:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for diveorfish  Send Email to diveorfish     
I have never been on the 240 but I own a 23. Looking at the specs, the 240 hull is 1’ 3” longer and about 1000 lbs. more than the 23. The 240 has a 22 degree transom deadrise and the 23 has a 20 degree transom deadrise. They both have an 8’ 6” beam.

Given these specs I would have to say that the 240 most likely has a smoother head sea ride and the 23 is more stable and possibly drier.

Since I own a 23 I can attest to the stability. The boat at drift feels like an inflatable. The boat just doesn’t rock period. Transom deadrise doesn’t tell the whole story about ride though. I know the 23 has a variable deadrise hull and it does ride pretty smooth if you trim it right. Underway in a following or quartering seas, the more pronounced reverse chines coupled with the large strakes make you feel like you are on rails. The boat also always wants to stay straight and level giving it an extremely quick recovery. The reverse chines also make the boat ride unbelievably dry which comes in real handy in my home area’s colder waters.

I would have to say that the 23’s only imperfection is its head sea ride. If you don’t trim it right it will pound in 2 foot seas. When you trim it right you can cut though 4 footers fairly softly because the entry Vee is sharp and as you move back the deadrise gradually flattens out and is probably about 22 degrees at the ¾ mark going from bow to stern. It rides smoother than the majority of boats that ply the Northern California waters so I’m happy. (You can’t by a contender out here. I’ve heard they have a really smooth ride due to 24.5 degree deadrise but they rock like heck)

Also, on a 23 trimming it right means that depending on how you are configured and loaded, the boat can be stern heavy. My boat with twin 135s. 166 gallons of fuel and two big passengers in the back seat is stern heavy. In rough seas I have to trim the motors all the way down plus put my tabs all the way down as well in order to obtain a smooth ride.

aubv posted 07-09-2005 10:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for aubv  Send Email to aubv     

Not sure what level of detail you want in comparing the 2 boats.

There are a lot of subtle differences between the two. Some better some worse from my perspective.

The transom door on the 240 opens in vs. out on the 23. While I'd guess BW change this for safety reasons- Someone leaning against the transom door on the 23 without it being fully locked could cause someone to fall but the door opening inward (on the 240) and not a full 90 degrees is less than desirable. It also means there is no coaming bolster on the 240 transom door. If the boat ever took a big wave over the bow you could open the transom door on the 23 you would not be able to on the 240.

BW no longer installs the eyes on the inside of the transom on the 240. I use them all of the time for flat lining.

I think the batteries have been moved into the CC and the CC interior is now starboard on the 240. The starboard looks better but does add weight. The 230 has a curtain behind the control panel and is a little easier to access switches, etc.

The 23 batteries are located under a hatch in the stern and the transom door needs to be closed to open the battery hatch. The battery shut off hatch is also behind the transom door when the transom door is open- I've not found this to be a problem. The 240 has two very small round pressed in covers to access one macerator pump, on each side. The larger hatch on the 23 does allow for better access to the bilge area.

You can hit your head on the T-top (23) when stepping on the rod/ cup holders on the bow platform not sure if the 240 is the same.

Down rigger weight holders have been added to the 240.

You should look at the location of the oil fill on the earlier 23 Outrages some of the first boats had the oil fill on the platform just in front of the motor well. This could be a problem if you ever had to add oil while in the ocean in rough water.

I've taken our 23 on some very long trips and think it is a very good all around boat the ride is not the greatest in certain conditions but the layout and function of the boat works extremely well for us.

SeaBiscuit posted 07-09-2005 11:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for SeaBiscuit  Send Email to SeaBiscuit     
A couple more items:
stern location of the oil tanks, oil fils and hatch on my 99 23 are a problem. hard to access and fill w/0 making a mess. In addition, I had a bilge pump failure while at anchor in 3-4 foot sloppy seas. Between the livewell (some overflow goes in the bilge) and the stern hatch leaking (sealing the access hatch permenantly not an option), my bilge filled with water enough to submerge the oil tanks fully. In those conditions, it was hardly noticable, as the boat is very stern heavy to begin with. The oil tank positive pressure held and, thankfully, no water got in my oil. I have installed a second auto bilge pump to prevent another such incident.
The issue about trimming this boat correctly cannot be emphasized enough. In almost all but flat calm conditions, my motors are down all the way and so are my tabs. Bow works great, if you can keep it in the water!
kjs862 posted 07-09-2005 06:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for kjs862  Send Email to kjs862     
Thanks for everyones input. It helps a lot. Well anyhows I went to a regulator dealer today and he showed me their 23' model and all I can say is wow. It is a hell of a boat. I asked the dealer how his boat compares to whaler and he said its night and day. He said the regulator takes waves a lot better due to the shape of the hull. He was saying how a 23' outrage would be a lot more hard on people and this would just gilde through like butter. Can I get can outside point of view on this please I mean he was a regulator dealer and was prob trying to sell the boat.


bluewaterpirate posted 07-09-2005 06:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
He's right on the mark. Variable Deadrise 24.5 at the transom. Glides thru the water handles open ocean conditions with ease. If you buy one don't under power it & stay away from the 300 hpdi option. Fish with a friend that runs a charter & his 23 is powered by a pair 200 hpdi's. Carries 160 gallons of fuel. He's figures at 4000rpms are 43 mph 18gph 2.3 mpg. It's built to fish on the SKA King Mackeral Tourney Circuit. Many of the participants who fish the 23 & under class fish this hull. Fit & finish is on par with Whaler & Grady. There you have it from a Whaler owner.


aubv posted 07-09-2005 09:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for aubv  Send Email to aubv     
No question that sharper dead rise on the Regulator will allow a better ride but it may have a trade off. Having no first hand water experience on the Regulator, I've heard that shaper dead rise boats tend to roll more when drifting.

We looked very seriously at the 23' Regulator before purchasing the 23' Outrage. There are some features on the Regulator that made the boat, problematic for our use. Including the huge in deck fish box (read get inside to clean) and rod storage in the top center section of that fish box. This means you have to potentially put a large fish in the box passing the fish over the rods/reels.

The Regulator, while a very nice boat, lacks many of the items found on a 23/240 that you may find really worth having. In fact, it is a pretty long list (one I'd be happy to discuss via e-mail or phone). One of those items is the much maligned euro-transom.

Also, from our stand point, Whalers unsinkablitily has a lot of appeal when venturing out into the ocean any distance.


SeaBiscuit posted 07-09-2005 10:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for SeaBiscuit  Send Email to SeaBiscuit     
This is becoming a very interesying discussion. Once again, I own a 23 outrage. I have fished on a number of boats, including a couple of 23 regulators one 23 yellowfin and several contenders. I consider the regulator a great, solidly built, heavy, deep deadrise, go fast, offshore boat. Not as fast as a 23 contender, not as functional (or shapely) as a 23 yellowfin. Open transom great for fishing, but definitely not a design of the future. You could not go wrong with any of these three.
There are, however, significant differences between these three and the 23 outrage. The outrage is more comfortable than any of these three in terms of utility and layout, a lot more stable at drift and anchor and much, much drier. It will pound on a head sea more than any of the above and will cost as much to run as the regulator (which is more than the lighter contender and yellowfin)
Finally, I have had a couple of my whalers full of water (for various reasons, I do not care to elaborate on). Never done it in any of the others. Based on those experiences, I choose to stick with Whalers.
Nick (SeaBiscuit)
tyler993 posted 07-11-2005 12:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for tyler993  Send Email to tyler993     
I've owned a 21, 22 and now a 24 Outrage so I'll give my take on those.

The mid 90's 21 is too beamy for it's waterline length. Great layout, dry boat but pounds a bit. Pleanty of storage and moved very well with a 200hp. Liked it but again, not the best sea boat.

The late 80's, early 90's 22 is the fisherman's boat. Wide open and roomy for fishing, fast as hell with minimal power but it pounded and was a bit wet. Didn't like the batteries sitting out either so I had them moved under the console (which was too small). Minimal seating.

The mid 90's 24 is the "family fisherman". Great compromise for the family/boater types who still love to fish. Not a bad ride but extremely dry. Plenty of seating, especially with the optional (removeable) stern seat. Head under console is key. Converted cooler seat to fold down seat for more fishing room. Kids and wife love huge bow platform for lounging. I love it for sight casting !

I've heard the newer 23 is a smoother head sea boat but no real confirmation on that. I would look at a used 24 and compare the rides before paying more for the newer 23.

kjs862 posted 07-12-2005 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for kjs862  Send Email to kjs862     
Boy, I'm facing a big problem. I have no idea what to turn to. Mid 90's 24, late 90's 23, or a regulator. I guess I should really test drive all three boats. The thing is I'm looking to go fishing offshore of Long Island around the canyons. Is anyone familiar with this kind of water? I never been there and heard it can be nasty and I'm starting to be more concerned about the size of the boat. If anyone does have some knowledge of the water out there what size boat would you recommend looking at? Thanks


aubv posted 07-12-2005 04:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for aubv  Send Email to aubv     

I hardly think choosing between a 23'/24' Whaler or a
23' Regulator should be characterized as a "..big problem".

You have already started to identify what your needs are, mainly fishing, some cruising. Look at those needs realistically and the decision can then be made based the boat that has the best features for your use.

Fishing the canyons isn't necessarily about boat size. It has a lot more to do with preparation and the willingness to pull the plug on a trip even after the preparation is done.

kjs862 posted 07-19-2005 02:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for kjs862  Send Email to kjs862     
After a lot of careful thinking, I'm starting to favor the Whaler over the Regulator. I rather sacrifice a smooth ride in rough water for a more stable drift while fishing. I figure time spent on the boat is going to be drifting not actual cursing. Just my opinion.


diveorfish posted 07-19-2005 11:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for diveorfish  Send Email to diveorfish     
kjs862: I don’t mean to give the wrong impression about the ride of the 23 Outrage. You are not sacrificing a smooth ride in rough water. It just may not be as smooth as a regulator in a head sea but that doesn’t mean the 23 is not a smooth riding boat in a head sea. I really don’t have any experience with regulator type boats so I can’t really tell you how much smoother the Regulator is than the 23 Outrage. For all I know the difference may be very slight, I’m just going by what I’ve been told. The 23 Outrage hull is a smooth riding hull, I’ve never had a problem comfortably cruising past any boat I’ve encountered in the open ocean here in northern California, head sea or otherwise. Whalers are designed to handle rough conditions in every direction.

Furthermore, due to its superior stability, in a rough following, quartering or beam sea, the Whaler might even ride better.

The only way to know for sure is to sea trial them all. Just keep in mind that the 23 Regulator is a foot longer which should help its ride for comparison sake.

Also remember to trim the 23 Outrage properly, especially if it has twins and it is full of gas. If you feel any pounding, you are stern heavy so put the tabs down. With the tabs down the ride smoothes out and the difference in the ride is night and day.

tyler993 posted 07-21-2005 08:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for tyler993  Send Email to tyler993     
I didn't realize that you were considering a Regulator 23 in my earlier response. I owned a 99 Regulator 23 with a Yamaha 250 EFI. The Regulator is a "class above" just about every production boat I can think of. The ride is superior to the Whaler in all aspects. If you can live without the amenities (head under console, extra seating) and you can afford a Regulator, then go for it.

I still regret the day that I sold the Regulator - temporary insanity. I thought I needed a walkaround...

bluewaterpirate posted 07-21-2005 04:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Your right on the mark Tyler in regards to the Regulators ride & fit/finish. Fish with a friend who has a 23' with twin 200 hpdi. Fished with him in some real rugged weather 8 - 12' last fall out of Hatteras SKA Tourney ....


kjs862 posted 07-21-2005 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for kjs862  Send Email to kjs862     
The guys with the first hand expierence with the 23' Regulators, because of the deeper hull is there a noticible amount of roll on drift?


bluewaterpirate posted 07-21-2005 09:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Not an issue. It's a very dry smooth ride. Roll is very predictable.
tyler993 posted 07-22-2005 07:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for tyler993  Send Email to tyler993     
Regulator 23 does not roll on the drift. Hard chines make it a stable boat at drift. Don't believe what the "nautical engineers" say about all Deep V's being unstable on the drift.
SeaBiscuit posted 07-22-2005 12:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for SeaBiscuit  Send Email to SeaBiscuit     
Lots of much deserved support for the 23 regulator. If the decision is made to go with a deep V fishing center console, you owe it to yourself to compare the 23 regulator to the 23 yellowfin. That is apples to apples and the yellowfin apple is better IMO. Reasons: lighter, faster, drier, more economical, less power needed. Integrated transom vs a flap board which will not keep water out, nor let the motor tilt up. "Adult" sized T-top (if you are over 6 feet tall try to fit under the 23 reg hard top!) just to name a few.
James posted 07-29-2005 12:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for James  Send Email to James     
I know a person that is a licensed captain and takes out small boat fishing charters year-round. In our New Jersey area, he has been out twice daily from March to December for several years. He has personally used or has friends that use most of the current "hot fishing boats" for fishing or charters. In his/their opinion the 26 Regulator is and has been the "it" boat for fishing since its introduction. It does not ride as soft as the Contender 27, but he is very familiar with the Contender and tells me that the Contender rolls pretty good once you stop, whereas the 26 Regulator is more stable. The 23 Regulator is also used by a lot of very satisfied fishermen and professional guides here and down in Florida. The 26 Yellowfin is also very nice. There is one in my marina and the finish is excellent.

My basic problem with all of these beautiful, sleek and smooth running boats is that they can all sink. I find this very odd when you consider the intended offshore use and significant purchase cost. I do not want to have to worry about the safety of my family or guests because the boat hit a submerged piling or something, and is now sinking quickly. There are plenty of things submerged in my bay waters that can poke nice holes in fast-running boat hulls. I have no interest in that type of risk. So for me it comes down to Whaler, Grady White or McKee.

Coincidently, my wife and I are also considering upgrading from a 170 to a 240 Outrage for next year. And yes it does sell at a similar price as the 23 Regulator, which is an awesome fishing boat with an excellent layout for the fisherman. However, "Whalers don't sink!"


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