Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
  Gas Fill

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Gas Fill
JJN3 posted 08-01-2005 03:08 PM ET (US)   Profile for JJN3   Send Email to JJN3  
I own a 2003 275 Conquest and have a heck of a time filling the tanks without them backflowing up the fill nozzle. The fuel dock attendant says he sees this with all of the large whalers.....is there anything that can be done to help this?

John

Buckda posted 08-01-2005 03:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
I've noticed the same problem on my 18' Outrage - but only on the high-speed pumps at marinas. Never at the highway gas stations.

My guess: Because they're pumping such a large volume of fuel per boat, marina pumps are a higher flow rate and they overwhelm your fill tube.

My second thought (in my case) is that the new alcohol-rich fuel has collapsed the inside of my fill tube (at least partially) restricting the flow. I'll confirm or refute that this fall when I pull the tank cover to inspect everything and conduct a floor repair.

See if the attendant can't go a bit slower on the nozzle speed - that may solve the problem.

Dave

bsmotril posted 08-01-2005 07:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
Also make sure the vent line is not obstructed. If it is, that will also trip a sensitive fuel nozzle. BillS
skred posted 08-03-2005 08:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
On Dauntless 16's and some larger ones, the fuel tank is located just far enough aft to tilt the back of the tank down lower than the front. This, of course puts the fuel in the tank in position to cover the filler entry into the tank. On a trailer, the tank fills fine (boat is level), but in the water often 2 or 3 people sitting on the bow was required to clear the tank filler entry point on the tank, otherwise, you get about 1 gallon pumped, and then the fuel backs up the fill line and spurts out. If you fill at a trickle (and I mean a trickle), you can fill the tank, but it takes about a half-hour....
RLSmith posted 08-03-2005 10:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for RLSmith  Send Email to RLSmith     
I vote for the vent line being obstructed, probably with gas. When I first got my Dauntless, I often had a horrible time filling it. After much experimentation I now have 100% success at max fill speed by blowing out the vent line first (carefully).
where2 posted 08-03-2005 11:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for where2  Send Email to where2     
Dave, You won't find the fuel line collapsed. Marine fuel lines are constructed with an integrated spiral wound steel wire which keeps them "round" despite the curves and challenges they may face under the deck. The wire also makes it fun to install, but you'll learn that when you mess with your's.

The vent line may be collapsed, but I doubt it...

tully_mars posted 08-07-2005 11:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for tully_mars  Send Email to tully_mars     
I have mastered this same problem with my 275 Conquest. It seems that the vents are in such a position behind the fill to the rear of the tank that the air cannot get past the fill / nozzle spray to exit the tank. (This is my theory).

Ok, to fill your tank without spilling a drop wide open.

I went to West Marine and they have a handy bottle that you can suction cup over your vent to catch fuel. I recommend this for everyone to also keep your boat and environment clean.

2nd, take a shop towel, I use the blue roll towels, and completely "seal" the gas nozzle around the fill. I rap the nozzle about 3 inches back and stuff the whole thing in the fill. This will keep air and fuel from exiting the fill. It will create a back pressure on the fill that will actually help the fuel go into the tank. You will notice that you will be able to fill the tank at a much faster rate.

Basically the fill problem on these boats is all about pressures. The vents just aren't big enough. When filling the fuel pumps in faster than the air can get out, so just like any tank it will burp.

Capt. Tully Mars
The Black Pearl

275 Conquest w/ Twin Yamaha F200s

phatwhaler posted 08-08-2005 11:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
I use the exact same procedure that Tully Mars just described. I have the same container that Tully mentioned that I bought at West Marine. It's made by Davis I think. I wrap the fuel nozzle with a rag and make a seal. It doesn't work perfect but it works way better than without the rag. More importanly it keeps gas from getting all over my hands and the boat.

As Tully described, the fuel fill fitting and vent fittings are right next to each other on the bow end of the tank. I have tried everything to fix the problem. Including:

1. Replacement of the fuel vent hose and fitting.
2. Chasing the tank fittings with a bottle brush.
3. Removal and inspection of the fill hose. (Was fine)
4. Removal of the pickup tube and application of compressed air. Vent was blowing plenty of air. And there was no buildup of pressure.
5. I even called Florida Marine Tanks, the tank manufacturer, and asked them for advice. Which was basically a waste of time.

What also works is if I can find a filling station where I can fill the boat on a nice incline, then it seems to work better. Basically, my boat fills better with a bow high attitude.

This fuel problem is a big pain in the arse but it seems that it is fairly common. A bunch of boats that we had at the Coast Guard station did the same thing. Including a 1997 24 Justice. Even the brand new 25 SAFE boat does it too.

How many people here have the deck mounted fills for their Mercury oil tanks? Those can be a pain too.

phatwhaler out.

bsmotril posted 08-09-2005 09:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
A fuel dock where I boat also uses that technique. But instead of shop towels, they use a disposable diaper wrapped around the nozzle. They have a sealed metal disposal bin for them and swap them out every 5-10 boats or so. When you use this method yourself, or at a filling station on the street, how do you dispose of the fuel soaked towels?
BillS
tully_mars posted 08-09-2005 09:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for tully_mars  Send Email to tully_mars     
I have been given the diaper before too, but it just lays across the top to catch the backpressured fuel. I actually stuff the rag in around fill and nozzle, and surprisingly it comes out pretty dry. By never giving the fuel the opportunity to come back up there isn't really any waste to dispose of.

When I do get one "fuel wet" I give it to the dock hand to dispose of with their fuel diapers.

Capt. Tully Mars
The Black Pearl

starr posted 08-11-2005 02:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for starr  Send Email to starr     
I have a 1999 16" Dauntless and cannot get more than 1/2 tank at fuel docks - the only vent is on the cap.
I contacted Whaler - they said they were aware of the problem - so I just took the boat back to the dealer to see what type of fix they are going to create - I will keep this forum informed on any corrective action taken by Boston Whaler
I suggested they tilt the tank up 15 degrees - and vent the tank similar to the new 2005 16" Dauntless

but we will see

davej14 posted 08-13-2005 06:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for davej14  Send Email to davej14     
I have a 14 foot Dauntless with the same problem. I have had several "complaints" at the fill time at the gas station so now I fill it in the garage with 5 gallon gas cans. You would think that something as basic a this would have been addressed and fixed by whaler.
phatwhaler posted 08-13-2005 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
Here's the deal.

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=0376

These things work real well. No spillage on the side of the hull, or in the water. Use the rag gasket technique and you'll be good to go.

If it possible check and see if your tank is manufactured by Florida Marine Tanks.

It would be nice to compare the fuel tank installations that work, with the one's that don't, to try and figure out what the problem is.

phatwhaler out.

SEGrin posted 08-15-2005 05:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for SEGrin  Send Email to SEGrin     
THANK YOU! For the first time in five years I filled the fuel tank in my 18 ft. Ventura without spilling a drop of fuel. The nozzle wrap really works. We fuel at gas stations so I've saved an empty Sta-Bil bottle and cut a hole in the side that fits over the tank vent. My wife holds it over the vent to catch any overflow. Oddly enough, using the wrapped nozzle this was the first time nothing came out of the overflow while fueling.
Now if you guys could do something about the $90. fill-up...
jeffs22outrage posted 08-15-2005 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
Buckda (dave), I bet you have the same isssue I did with my old filler line. The two walls in the hose seperated because of the metal coiling rusting thus, it almosted closed the filler down. See image #41
http://www.continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore2.html
skred posted 08-15-2005 09:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
I have found only 2 solutions to the fill problem described above: 1. Have 3 people sit on the bow to tilt the tank forward to clear the filler tube (since the vent is integral with the filler tube). 2. Fill the tank while the boat is on the trailer and is level.
Worked for me...
dauntlass 18 posted 09-16-2005 07:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for dauntlass 18  Send Email to dauntlass 18     
I had a problem fueling my Dauntless{blowback up fill tube}.The 21ft Conquest I now have has no problem takeing fuel.The fill and vent line run side by side on the port side in a fairly str. run from the tank.I fuel the boat on its trailer at highway gas stations.
davej14 posted 09-19-2005 08:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for davej14  Send Email to davej14     
Jeff, You could be right though the boat is a 2000 model and has been a problem since I acquired it in 2003. It looks like major surgery to replace the fill line so next season I'll try the pressure fill suggestion.

Phat, how do I determine who manufactured the tank? Why do you ask?

phatwhaler posted 09-19-2005 11:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
If you look under the various access plates, you'll probably be able to see a label with the manufacturer's information. Florida Marine Tanks has historically been a large supplier of Boston Whaler fuel tanks. It would be interesting to know whether or not this is a problem that stems from the tank manufacturer.

phatwhaler out.

Buckda posted 09-19-2005 12:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Jeff -
That photo and report is what I was thinking about for mine. Dave14 is right - in this case, probably very unlikely. I'm going to also try the RAN "rag-around-the-nozzle" approach to see how that works - Will be taking a full tank of fuel after the inland waterway rendezvous and adding winterization additives.

Dave

davej14 posted 09-20-2005 08:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for davej14  Send Email to davej14     
Well, I have the Whaler put away for the season so I'll have to check on the tank manufacturer when I "unwrap" it in the spring. Just a mere 8 months from now right?!

Actually I regret having winterized it last weekend because the weather is now some of the best we have had all year.

JJN3 posted 09-21-2005 11:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for JJN3  Send Email to JJN3     
I have tried teh rag around nozzle; did not help. The best situation seems to be when i run the boat a while before fueling it. I am not sure why but the problem rarely occurs then. If I try to fill it before going out, it can be really bad.
JJN3 posted 10-24-2005 01:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for JJN3  Send Email to JJN3     
It appears that BW dealers are aware of this. The answer (at least for my 275 Conquest, a 2003) is that the vent line gets a pocket of gasoline in it and acts like a J-tube, sealing the tank. It can be fixed by applying pressurized air to the tank to blow thru the line, however there is no other fix. I did notice that if I run the boat for the day (e.g., an offshore trip where I burn a good amount of gas) the problem heals itself; perhaps the vacuum from the engines drawing the tank level down clears the loop-seal. I am going to see if I can think up some method to self-fix this at the dock....any thoughts?

John

jimh posted 10-24-2005 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
During fueling it will help if the the boat has a trim down by the stern. Assuming the vent line enters the tank at the forward end, trimmed down by the stern should keep the vent line from getting sealed by gasoline in the tank.

Also, it should help to keep the boat listing slightly away from the side with the fuel fill.

I have noticed that the attitude of the boat has quite an effect on whether the fuel vent line spits any gasoline during fueling.

Most Boston Whaler boats will have slight tendency to list to starboard and be trimmed slightly down by the stern at rest. The fuel fill is usually located on port. This works well with the natural trim and list on the boat.

If you have to stand in the boat while fueling (due to the height of the gas dock) you can upset the trim and list on the boat. I have noticed that when I get fuel spitting from the vent line it is coincident with having to be aboard during fueling and standing on the port side forward handling the fuel hose.

Try moving crew weight aft and to starboard during fueling and see if this helps.

I also noticed this same tendency when fueling the boat on the trailer. After having a problem will fuel spilling from the vent during fueling, I noticed that it was occuring at a particular gas station. The slope of the ground at this gas station put the boat on a slight incline so that the boat was down by the bow. This put the fuel in the tank into the forward end, blocking the vent line.

Riptide23WA posted 10-26-2005 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Riptide23WA  Send Email to Riptide23WA     
Everyone always suspects the vent line, but personally, I think the FILL lines are too small, especially for the high-volume nozzles that many marinas seem to have. After all, when I fill my truck, I never have to wrap a diaper or rag around the nozzle, and the only vent path I know of is the same line the fuel is going down. You can hear the air coming out of the tank as gas is going in...

Thoughts?

Bulldog posted 10-27-2005 01:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Well, there must be something to the rag trick, I winterized the boat last weekend and filled the tank all the way until the pump shut off. I had a rag wrapped around the fill nozzle and there was no spillage! I did put in a new vent line this year and had fastened it in the "fuel tunnel" at the top so there was no sagging to collect gas or water. I had several times that a good amount of gas shot out the vent when filling so I usually just filled it to the full mark this year, the gauge is way past full, no leaks and the boat is now sleeping in a barn five minutes from home! I think the rag thing works by making all the fumes go though the vent, when the tank gets full the vent stops and shuts off the fuel pump.....Jack

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.