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  Thru-bolting rod holders on 170 MONTAUK

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Author Topic:   Thru-bolting rod holders on 170 MONTAUK
bigjohn1 posted 10-05-2005 09:35 PM ET (US)   Profile for bigjohn1   Send Email to bigjohn1  
I am working with a marine fabricater on the east coast
(Arctek Marine) to custom fabricate a pair of single rod holders for my 170 MONTAUK. I am currently using four CE Smith rail-mounted holders and have been happy with their performance but I need a beafier setup on my two flatline rods since we target Marlin and typically use the boat to tire out the fish. Also, we use bent butt rods for high speed wahoo trolling and you must fight the fish with the rod sitting in the rod holder. This type of fishing style is going to eventually over-stress the CE Smith holders to the point of failure.

I have two main concerns with what I am proposing to do:
1. Structural integrity of the installation (it must be very solid to securely hold 80lb class saltwater gear while fighting a fish.
2. Fit and finish of the install must compliment my beautiful boat (not a hack job).

With these two things in mind, does anyone have thoughts on where the best place would be to drill into the hull in the aft end of the boat?

bsmotril posted 10-05-2005 09:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
If you are talking about flush mount rodholder, I don't think you can do it well, as you propose. A proper installation of flush mounts for heavy tackle requires either a good backing plate, or a gunnel cap. Drilling a hole into hull won't give you that strength unless you have plans to add some other re-inforcement, or epoxy insert to encapsule the rod holder. I've thought about this too, trying to figure out how to add downriggers to a future possible montauk purchase. I'm leaning to a fabricated board, or aluminum channel across the rear to hold the rod holders in the center, and downriggers at the end. The whole assembly would detach and mount via l brackets which would stay on the hull. Bills
WT posted 10-05-2005 09:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
I have noticed that my CE Smith rod holders come loose periodically. Luckily I have added rod/reel clips to the rod holders.

I would be interested in heavier duty rod holders too.

Warren

bigjohn1 posted 10-05-2005 10:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Bill,

I'm not talking flush mount as I realize they won't work with a MONATUK. If it were that easy, I could pick up any descent flush mount holder online and simply drill the hole in the boat. I am referring to a process where these guys would basically fabricate the backing/mounting plate and rod holder as one strong peice. This entire "assembly" would then be thru-bolted back aft - here are the areas I am thinking of:

1. The rear corners on the transom (just above the rear steps).

2. The forward bulkhead of the splash well

3. The area directly below the rear steps. What I am trying to refer to is this...if you were sitting in those aft corner step/seats, the area the back of your legs would be contacting.

At this point, I'm just thinking aload and throwing out ideas.

Perry posted 10-06-2005 02:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
John, scroll down the following link and look at the articulating rocket launcher rod holders. I have 2 of them clamped on the rail and they are very strong. I have dragged 200+ lb marlin and they hold up fine. Much stronger than the CE Smith stlye. It may be an alternative to drilling into your transom and thru-bolting rod holders.

http://www.precisionoutriggers.com/rod_holders_.phtml

If you are determined to mount rod holders on your transom, these may be what you are looking for.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/Picture033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/Picture032.jpg

bigjohn1 posted 10-06-2005 08:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Perry,
Thanks very much...the articulating rocket launchers look intersting. If I understand the picture correctly on how they clamp together, there is more than just one screw holding the actual rod holder to the clamp backing?

To tell the truth, I have another motive in doing this. Fighting with stand-up gear in a MONATAUK is quite a chore for me. I need to use the bimini to avoid suburn and eventual skin cancer out here in tropics. For years, I dove out of various open boats and it really took a toll on my skin. Also, I have lost a few fish (including one Marlin) on the flatline rigs and it was due to my fishing partner messing with the bimini (trying to take it down) while the fight was on. Bt going with bent butts out the back, I can gain some valuable "working space" for larger fish.

I'll still use two of my CE Smiths for the smaller 30lb class tuna rods (running from outriggers). Our tuna don't get very big here so its fairly easy to bring them in compared to Marlin and Wahoo. I have a total of three sets of CE Smith holders all clamped to my aft rails (2 sets to hold rods and 1 set to hold outriggers). This is quite a bit of stress on those rails especially when we crank the speed up to 14-18 knots for wahoo dragging 16-18oz lures and 2lb trolling leads. The rails have not really loosened up yet due to this stress but I just wonder how long they can take it.

Please keep the ideas coming.

Moe posted 10-06-2005 09:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
IMHO, the only place on a Whaler strong enough to through-bolt into is the plywood reinforced area of the transom. And even then, without sufficiently large plates with radiused edges and corners, the load direction could crack the gel coat.

The second strongest place would be the star board under the gunnel caps, drilled and tapped. I suspect Whaler fastens the railings with wood screws into holes drilled into it.

WT, if your CE Smith rod holders are coming loose, you need to Loctite the screws, especially the big one that sets the angle. 242 (blue) would be my choice if they might need to be relocated, but 262 (red) is stronger, and harder to remove.

--
Moe

swist posted 10-06-2005 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for swist  Send Email to swist     
"The second strongest place would be the star board under the gunnel caps, drilled and tapped. I suspect Whaler fastens the railings with wood screws into holes drilled into it."

Actually it looks to me that the star board (Whaler board, phonelic, or whatever it is) is strong enough to be tapped and in fact they use machine screws on them, clearly relying on the backing to be as strong as a nut.

WT posted 10-06-2005 12:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Moe:

I'll try the 242.

Thanks,
Warren

RocketMan posted 10-06-2005 12:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for RocketMan  Send Email to RocketMan     
FWIW. Years ago I wanted to install 16' outriggers on a classic 16' hull to troll the Gulfstream. I was concerned of course that the inner hull wall itself wouldn't provide sufficient structure to ground the installation.

I ended up installing a set of Lee flush-mounted outrigger holders to the inside hull at about the RPS seat location. I used backing plates under the holder at the inner hull and ran four 1/4 inch stainless bolts through to the outer hull and another backing plate for each holder. Both backing plates are aluminum sheet, 1/8 inch thick and extend an inch or so larger than the radius of the holder footprint all the way around.

I monitor it for degradation and in that event would install controlled-length sleeves between the nuts and the bolt heads to torque up against. But 20 years later the installation has worked well and shows no degradation. Those outriggers get to whipping pretty good when cruising through rough seas. They've experienced a lot cyclic loading with just their own weight but we've never pulled a big fish with one. They also double as a good rod holder.

Perry posted 10-06-2005 01:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Yea John, there are 4 pins that fit in a series of holes when clamped witht the center screw form a tight and solid bond. These articulating rod holders are very high quality.

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