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Author Topic:   2004 170 Montauk tongue weight
WT posted 11-28-2005 06:45 PM ET (US)   Profile for WT   Send Email to WT  
The tongue weight on my trailer is 69 pounds.

Here are my estimated weights:
1) Montauk 1400
2) Motor 400
3) Trailer 500
4) Gas (24 Gal.) 145
5) Bait tank 100
6) Kicker 80
7) Tackle 50
8) Ice chest 50
9) Batteries 200
10) Trolling Motor 50

Total 2975

A tongue weight of 6% should equate to 178 pounds and I'm sitting at 69 pounds. I can not move my bowstop any further forward. Is this too far out of whack?

[Hyperlink: photobucket.com]


Thanks,
Warren

bsmotril posted 11-28-2005 07:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
A 25' chain rhode in the anchor locker will help get it in the ballpark.
BillS
kingfish posted 11-28-2005 07:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Warren-

That's a little light, especially if you're planning to trail any distance and/or in traffic; could be prone to some fishtailing. Some weight forward while you're towing is the easiest answer (an old battery or two in the bow locker or a tractor weight attached to the tongue, etc.). If your bowstop can't go forward and you want a more permanent fix, move your axle back some.

John

WT posted 11-28-2005 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
The axel on the 2004 Karavan trailer can not be moved. The axel is attached to a welded bracket on the frame.

I'm taking my boat to the dealer within the next couple of weeks. Perhaps they have a solution.

Warren

Chuck Tribolet posted 11-28-2005 10:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I've read 5-10%.

200 pounds of batteries seems high.


Chuck

WT posted 11-28-2005 11:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Chuck:

It is high. 2 group 31's at 69 pounds each, 1 group 24 at 53 pounds plus my battery charger at 22 pounds gets me 213 pounds.

[Hyperlink: photobucket.com]


I forgot to add the weight of the fish that I catch. Another 100 pounds? :)

Perhaps carrying a keg of beer in the anchor locker might do the trick.

Warren

surfkast posted 11-29-2005 12:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for surfkast    
WT,
Do you always trailer with a full bait tank? I drain mine and unload rods, etc when I trailer to keep stuff from bouncing around. My 14 gallon tank probably weighs 120 pounds full, but maybe 5-10 lbs empty.

Miles

WT posted 11-29-2005 12:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
I would like to know if other 170 Montauk owners have a tongue weight of approximately 150 pounds. (Stripped Montauk/trailer/motor at 2500 pounds at a 6% tongue weight.)

Miles:

I do sometimes tow with a full bait tank. Sometimes I carry an additional 24 gallons of fuel. Sometimes I carry a 100 pounds of crab pots. I just bought a crab pot puller.....

At WOT I can still hit 25 mph. :)

Warren

bigjohn1 posted 11-29-2005 06:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Warren, mine is somewhere around 150 but I have the EZ Loader trailer. I tow with a Toyota Tacoma and that amount of tongue weight feels quite "right" with my rig.
erik selis posted 11-29-2005 06:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
I have exactly 220lbs on mine. I did have to move the axel about a foot forward though. The tongue weight was almost 320lbs, which was too much for my car to handel.

Erik

Bulldog posted 11-29-2005 09:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Warren, 69 lbs sounds too low, I see why you can't move the winch stand front, perhaps the company makes a winch stand that is as tall vertically but the horizontal distance would be less. If you want to see how far it would have to move, unbolt your winch stand and push the boat farther towards the tongue about 6" to see where you get about 200lbs! Sounds like from all your posts you have been towing all over, if it always a good experiance perhaps leave well enough alone. My concern with the low hitch weight would be in a panic stop situation where the tow vehicle is nose diving, the trailer might unload the rear and push the vehicle or jack knife it......Jack
WT posted 11-29-2005 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Hi Guys:

I tow up to 300 miles round trip. Since this is my first boat, I do not know how a trailer should feel on the back of my Grand Cherokee. It does at times feel a little squirrelly, that is one of the reasons a changed trailer tires to radials yesterday.

I usually tow like an old lady at 60 mph. One time I tried to keep up with a friend towing with his diesel at 75 mph and I immediately backed off back to 60-65.

Thanks for the input,
Warren

CHRISWEIGHT posted 11-29-2005 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for CHRISWEIGHT  Send Email to CHRISWEIGHT     
Warren
I think around 100kg is about right for a grand cherokee (220lbs) could fit a spare wheel and carrieron the tongue to bring up the weight. don't over do the weight though as the grand is a bit soft around the back end with a long overhang.

regards chris

Bulldog posted 11-29-2005 04:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Chris , his pictures show a spare on the tongue, good thought though.Warren, after hearing about your past towing experiance, I think you need to do whatever is needed to get that tongue weight up higher, or get that new trailer you have been talking about in past posts. One day during one of your tows you will be involved in an emergency handling situation and it gets scary fast, with a properly set up trailer........Jack
6992WHALER posted 11-29-2005 04:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for 6992WHALER  Send Email to 6992WHALER     
You can always try a simple experiment. Fill a 6 or 7 gallon jug with water (you might need two). Put the jug in the bow of the boat. If your trailer follows you better down the road, you need to get more tongue weight, if on the other hand the ride gets rougher you probably have too much tongue weight.
Once you think the load is correct take it to hwy speed and when you are going down a hill let off the gas, if you still have a light tongue you should get a fishtail.
disneycaber posted 11-30-2005 12:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for disneycaber  Send Email to disneycaber     
Hi,
I did a search and did not find a direct answer so...Is measuring the actual tongue weight as simple as placing a bathroom (or similar) scale on the driveway and lowering the trailer tongue onto it until the entire weight of the whole rig is on the scale ???


Thanks

Bulldog posted 11-30-2005 03:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Well it is sort of that simple, as long as your tongue weight is under three hundred pounds or the rating of your scale. You should use some 2x4 spacers where your feet would go, then add another across the top to center the weight on the scale. If your hitch weight is more then 300 lbs, use a couple more 2x4 spacers and split the load in half, half on the scale and half on the ground, if everything is level , just multiply the scale measuremnt by 2. Of course the tongue should be at the same height as it is when on the hitch. Boy sure made a simple thing sound complicated, didn't I!.......Jack
kingfish posted 11-30-2005 04:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Measuring the tongue weight *is* as easy as that, as Jack says, but to be accurate, the whole trailer and scale setup should be sitting on hard level ground and the tongue should be parallel with the ground surface.

And another way to deal with weights above the capacity of the scale is to use 2 scales. I did that when I was dialing my axle placement in on the EZ Loader trailer under my Outrage 22 for the tongue weight I wanted. I bought a couple of cheapos on sale from WalMart for 8 or 10 bucks apiece, and built a beam out of wood that transferred the tongue weight to a post on each scale (with pads so I didn't dent the scale with the post ends), and simply added the weight readings from the two scales together, after subtracting the weight of the wood post and beam structure.

John

swist posted 12-01-2005 09:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for swist  Send Email to swist     
"Measuring the tongue weight *is* as easy as that, as Jack says, but to be accurate, the whole trailer and scale setup should be sitting on hard level ground and the tongue should be parallel with the ground surface."

Shouldn't the tongue be at the exact height of the trailer hitch (this isn't necessarily parallel to the ground)?

Chuck Tribolet posted 12-01-2005 10:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Height of the tongue is not terribly important. Tongue weight
may change a little with height, but not significantly. And
level is completely irrelevant. Just make the tongue height
close (+/- six inches) of the ball height.


Chuck

WT posted 12-01-2005 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
My Montauk does not rest firmly against the bow stop.

There have been a few times when I did not crank my winch all the way down to secure the bow of my Montauk to the trailer. If there are a few inches of play in the winch strap, the bow of my boat will bounce up and down on the trailer as I am towing. The first time it happened, as I looked through the rear view mirror of my tow vehicle, scared me to death.

Is my Montauk weighted too far back on the trailer?

Getting paranoid,

Warren

kingfish posted 12-01-2005 10:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
The trailer tongue should be level when trailering and so is *one* of the reasons it should be level when weighing. If level really was completely irrelevant, truck scales would be set up on hillsides, at various angles, rather than on flat level surfaces.

John

kingfish posted 12-01-2005 10:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Warren-

Your bow should be pulled tight up against the bowstop when trailering. When it is not, not only have you decreased your tongue weight even further, but you have your boat dancing to a different tune than your trailer. A lot of guys not only bring the bow firmly up to the bowstop, but they additionally tie the bow eye down to the trailer tongue.

John

Jerry Townsend posted 12-01-2005 11:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
John (Kingfish) - the trailer need not be perfectly level - not on a 45 degree slope, but a small angle doesn't have all that much influence - roughly 0.1% error per degree. And this is in part because of the small angle, but also because the cg of the boat is very close to the axle(s).

Warren - As John states - you WANT the bow up against the bow stop. With any 'play' the bow of your boat will wave in the air flow while towing. That is about the quickest way that I can think of to really wreck your Montauk. Further, with any 'play', when the boat is 'waving in the wind', the loads on the winch strap, the bow stop, and the bow eyelet - are impact loads and as such - ARE DOUBLED - AT LEAST. ----- Jerry/Idaho

WT posted 12-02-2005 01:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Thanks for the feed back.

I don't let my Montauk wave in the wind. I notice within 100 feet after pulling out at the ramp. It just seems that that the weight of the Montauk against my bow stop is VERY, VERY light.

I will have my Boston Whaler dealer check it out.

Thanks,

Warren

bigjohn1 posted 12-02-2005 07:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Warren, on letting your dealer check it out - why? Is there some mechanical interference on the trailer which is
preventing you from cranking the boat all the way up tight up on the bow stop while the trailer is submerged? This begs the question are you also attaching the safety chain lanyard to the bow eye of the boat? On mine, if the boat is not right up against the bow stop, the chain will not be long enough to reach the bow eye. What I am saying is...this is easy stuff you can check and correct yourself on the spot (usually).

I don't know about all dealers but mine will not hook up a trailer to your vehicle (or assist in this), like when you're picking up your boat from being serviced. They say it is an insurance and liability thing...this perplexes me but I have just gotten used to doing things myself when it comes to the trailer. For what its worth...

Chuck Tribolet posted 12-02-2005 10:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Warren: on thing to check: Is the transom completely on the
bunks? This is critical -- the transom is both the heaviest
and strongest part of the boat, and should be transfering all
that weight directly down to the bunks.


Chuck

WT posted 12-02-2005 12:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
My transom is sitting on the bunks. The bow eye of the Montauk is winched down to "zero" play with the trailer.

1) My tongue weight is too light, 69 pounds.
2) The axel of the trailer can not be adjusted.
3) The bow stop can not be moved forward.

I will be bringing my boat in for the 200 hour service. I hope the dealer has a solution to increase my tongue weight.

Thanks,
Warren

kingfish posted 12-02-2005 02:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Please keep us posted Warren-

Looking more closely at some of your photos (besides being impressed all over again as to how nice a Whaler that is), a couple of things occur to me. One is a curiosity if the trailer was set up before your kicker was mounted. I don't know how much weight has been taken from your tongue by the kicker, but I'd guess at between 1/3 and 1/2 of the weight of the kicker itself. Another thing is that I think the bowstop post could be refined by a good welder and you could gain another 4" to 6" possibly, if the work were well considered, designed and executed. It looks like there's room before your bow would meet up with the wishbone of the trailer to accomodate that, although you might find it advisable then to add a collar tie and roller to protect the bow with the new proximity of the wishbone. It does look as if the the transom is located in about the "right spot" in relation to the end of the trailer, and you'd have some bunk sticking out behind the boat if you moved the boat forward. Are your stern-most bunk supports right at the ends of the bunks or are they some inches forward of the ends of the bunks? Moving the boat forward would probably entail some adjustment of the bunks, and some adjustment to the location of your spare.

The easiest ways I can think of to solve your light tongue, is either temporary weight well secured in the bow of the boat somewhere, with the bow well secured to the trailer, or more permanent weight added directly to your trailer right around the "wishbone" or on the tongue. Sounds hokey I know, but that last solution might be able to be effected in a way that doesn't look as if it was too much of an afterthought, using some creativity. I think it would be by far the easiest and least expensive solution.

John

Chuck Tribolet posted 12-02-2005 04:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
You can compute the amount of wieght the kicker takes off
the tongue as follows:

Find out how much the kicker weighs.

Measure from the axle to point directly under the kicker, that
is the horizontal distance from axle to kicker. Call this A.

Measure the horizontal distance from the axle to coupling.
Call this B.

Change in tongie weight is W*A/B. John's guess of 1/3 to
1/2 is in the right ballpark.


Chuck

Buckda posted 12-02-2005 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
That formula should be included in the Trailer reference section - to help determine what the effect repowering will have on your tongue weight!

WT posted 12-02-2005 04:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
My kicker dry weight is 55 pounds, kicker bracket estimated at 10 pounds, and my TurboLift is 22 pounds.

Total weight is 87 pounds so 1/3 is 29 pounds or 1/2 is 43.5 pounds off the tongue weight. An average is 36 pounds off my tongue weight due to my kicker and Turbolift.

36 pounds relieved off the tongue plus my current tongue weight of 69 pounds is 105 pounds which would still be too light.

Thnaks,
Warren

WT posted 12-02-2005 04:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Ooops Turbolift is 12 pounds.
WT posted 12-02-2005 04:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Let's put it this way. If I trim my main motor all the way up, I can pick up the tongue of my trailer and set my boat on the skeg. My Montauk would look like a rocket getting ready for lift off.

Warren

Buckda posted 12-02-2005 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Yeah Warren, that is definitely too light.

Casco Bay Outrage posted 12-02-2005 06:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Casco Bay Outrage  Send Email to Casco Bay Outrage     
WT -

I notice that your winch/roller post is all one piece and has no way to be adjusted. I am a bit dissapointed on the quality of the trailer that BW chose.

Given the swing tongue, I have a suggestion. Take a look at this photo on my 2003 Load Rite trailer. The angle of the post is opposite yours and the winch and bow roller are each adjustable.

Note:
When I bought the Outrage in September the position of the post/roller was as shown. I was pleased on the ability to adjust anything to get a good fit and fixed the alignment after I took the photo

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/philtyson2002/detail?.dir=22f4&. dnm=7527re2.jpg&.src=ph

I think you could replace the post (winch/roller) with something like this, move the hull forward a bit, add a new roller at the V and that will solve your issues.

Hope this helps.

kingfish posted 12-02-2005 10:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Casco Bay-

That looks like a better solution to me than cutting and welding Warren's existing post.

By the way, you should lower your cross arm enough so that when you pull your bow up tight, the bow eye is up against the roller...there is nothing holding your bow *down*, as shown.

John

Bulldog posted 12-03-2005 02:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Warren, you are way too light! You have been towing her all over like that and doing ok, you do need to fix it,you will notice a big difference towing! Other then another trailer I think Phil is right, look for another winch stand, which would be the cheapest way to go!
Phil that is one nice Whaler, sounds like you adjusted the bow roller already, you might want to take a hacksaw to about two feet of that extra winch stand!...Jack
alkar posted 12-03-2005 04:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
Warren, the guys above has given you great advice. I just want to underscore the importance of having proper tongue weight with a story:

When I bought my new trailer for my 22' Outrage the dealer loaded the boat and set the tongue weight very, very light. It was still heavy enough to merit use of the jack, but it was probably less than 20% of what it should have been. I assumed the technicians at the dealer knew what they was doing, so it didn't occur to me to check the tongue weight before hooking up to my wife's smaller F-150 truck for the ride home.

Everything was fine until I lightly applied the brakes in a corner on the interstate. The trailer suddenly and violently wagged back and forth. It felt as though the half ton truck was whipped back and forth and then pushed it into the neighboring lane. It was a complete surprise, it scared the heck out of me. I was VERY fortunate that nobody was in the other lane at the time.

I've been towing trailers of one kind or another for more than 35 years, and I had never had a surprise like that.

Casco Bay Outrage posted 12-03-2005 09:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for Casco Bay Outrage  Send Email to Casco Bay Outrage     
John - I adjusted it before I drove the boat home.

Jack - I have considered cutting it down but use it as a grab hold when walking on the tongue. I plan to replace the tongue and add 2-3'.

WT - I trailer the boat and make several trips (100 miles RT) a year. Having the trailer rigged right is worth the time and hassle. I spent a fair amount of time on my 87 Montauk's Royal trailer getting her fitted correctly, including a new longer tongue. She rides like butter.

Am working on the Loadrite trailer now. While she rides great. Tongue weight is too high, no side rollers and there are only 2 cross members.

Hope it helps.

Phil

HAPPYJIM posted 12-03-2005 12:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for HAPPYJIM  Send Email to HAPPYJIM     
bsmotril has the best and cheapest solution. Another 100 lbs of anchor rhode in the locker. I consider an anchor as emergency equipment. Imagine losing an engine on a breezy day and getting pushed into the rocks or breaking surf. An anchor needs to hold the first time it is deployed. Most under 20 foot boats have 4 or 5 foot of chain then the rest is rope. 20 foot or more chain is almost always going to set the first time. Cheap insurance if needed.
It will probably make the boat ride better with more weight up front also.
WT posted 12-03-2005 01:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Happyjim:

I have an anchor and also a Boat Brake http://www.seaanchor.com/boatbrakes.htm
as a backup for emergency purposes. My anchor locker is packed with my anchor along with 2 hoses, 1 to rinse my outboard and the other to rinse off my boat at the ramp washdown.

Adding anymore weight to my Montauk and I'll need to get a new Verado to push the boat.

My trailer squeaks very loud while trailering. (I've had the dealer oil it but the squeak comes back.) One of my trailer fenders almost fell off because the screws backed out. All of my light bulbs (brake lights and lights on the frame) on the trailer have burnt out and have been replaced. My trailer can not be adjusted to shift the weight of my boat. My opinion of my trailer is that it is a POS.

Call the cops I'm getting robbed!!! Here's a quote for a custom made trailer for my Montauk:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/?action=view& current=DHMTrailer.jpg


I called my Boston Whaler dealer yesterday to ask if other 2004 Montauk owners have complained about their trailers. The response was "no". I'll call Chuck Bennett on Monday for his response.

Thanks,
Warren

alkar posted 12-03-2005 02:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
Holy Cow, Warren, that's a severe beating for a small trailer.

I don't know why those of use who live on the west coast have to pay so much for trailers. I bought a new "King" trailer for my outrage. It was the best bang for the buck out here, but it was almost TWICE the cost of a new aluminum trailer in Florida. Of course, if you buy there you have to pay sales tax and then get it out here.

Jerry Townsend posted 12-03-2005 04:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
Buckda - the computer program to calculate the effects of any weight change is available via the trailer load balance section of the Reference section. The computer program wants to see rather complete weight and length data - so one has to play a couple of games. That is, you need to know the weight of the kicker, the length of the trailer, the hitch-transom distance and the hitch-axle distance - but simply say the weight of the total 'rig' is the weight of the kicker - the distance from the transom to the cg is 0.1 (a small number). And then calculate the hitch load (select option 3 and input 0) - and the answer will be the change in the hitch load.

If anyone has questions on this program, let me know - either the CW site or e-mail. --- Jerry/Idaho

Barney posted 12-03-2005 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
WT, I have the same boat but with the EasyLoader trailer. Mine is very picky on weight distribution. On a trip to Florida last year I moved gear to the bow of the boat and into the truck bed to get the rig to settle down. I don't have a kicker hanging on the back but I have a spare on the front of the trailer. I moved everything possible out of the stern of the boat to make it tow properly. Jim
whale tauk posted 12-03-2005 07:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for whale tauk  Send Email to whale tauk     
WT,
I have a 2004 170 with a Karavan trailer.
In the bow locker I have 300 ft. of 3/8 rode and 10 ft. of 5/16 chain.
I also have two OEM tanks at 6.5 gallons (about 80 lbs.) strapped on top of the cooler.
No kicker, just an empty 13 gallon bait tank over the rear pump.
I weighed the tongue (twice) at 267 lbs.
My bow stop is configured with two U bolts that can adjust fore and aft.
I'd be happy to send you pics as well as the trailer serial number if you want.

whale tauk

WT posted 12-04-2005 12:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Whale Tauk:

I would like to see your pictures.

Here's a pic of my bow stop. It's at the end of the road, the swing tongue is in the way.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=Montauk4-10-04035.jpg

Warren

WT posted 12-04-2005 12:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Here's a picture showing where the transom hits the bunks.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=DSCN0824.jpg

HAPPYJIM posted 12-04-2005 07:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for HAPPYJIM  Send Email to HAPPYJIM     
WOW! That is an expensive trailer!
It looks like you can either put more weight up front or go through the expense of moving that axle back.
Bulldog posted 12-04-2005 07:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Warren, can you move the spare tire to the winch vertical bracket. Mount it opposit side of trailer away from winch handle, that would have to add some weight to the hitch. It looks like your trailer is level, or even slightly tongue down, if not, you could get a lower hitch ball mount to help transfer your weight front. That bait tank is empty when you tow long distance , right?..............Jack
Bulldog posted 12-04-2005 07:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
OH yeah Warren, that price for trailer is way too high, talk to LHG get a Continental in Florida, and we'll all do some kind of relay across America! I've really looked at all your pictures, you really shouldn't even move the winch stand front because you will be having all the weight of the transom on a part of the bunk without support under it, and you would have maybe six inches behind the transom. The trailer looks "right" in the pictures, you even moved the batteries forward of the axle, and have a heavy trolling motor on the bow. Move that spare tire front! I'm begining to think you have two options 1.) find a way to move the axle back, or 2.) get another trailer, check Pacific trailers on the west coast. As a tempoary fix get two bags of salt crystals or something and put about 100 lbs. up front strapped down while towing, then just put them in the jeep while fishing..............Jack
high sierra posted 12-04-2005 11:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for high sierra  Send Email to high sierra     
Warren, I believe the problem is not the trailer. The problem is the combined weight of the trolling motor , the heavy motor bracket, the bait tank and to a degree the Pate tank. Just too much weight to the rear. The trailer seems to be aligned properly on the trailer. Too many goodies. high sierra
Barney posted 12-04-2005 12:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
I think so too. Jim
kingfish posted 12-04-2005 01:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Warren-

I hate to be the one to add insult to injury, but someone mounted your bilge bump on the wrong side of your transom (the *out* side). ;-)

whale tauk posted 12-04-2005 04:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for whale tauk  Send Email to whale tauk     
WT,
Here's a picture of the bow stop and compared to picture #17 in your album, it looks like I could go forward a couple of inches where you are indeed out of room.

[url]http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ktcusa/detail?.dir=/5bd9&.dnm=5905scd.jpg[url/]

whale tauk

whale tauk posted 12-04-2005 04:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for whale tauk  Send Email to whale tauk     
Hope this works better.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ktcusa/album?.dir=/5bd9

Jerry Townsend posted 12-04-2005 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
Warren - just looked at your picture. I have no idea on how much forward you might have to move your bow-stop/boat - but with some measurements and weights that calculation could be made. You might consider having a welding shop install a short (1 - 2 feet) tongue extension and then put on a bolt-on bow stop. Such a modification is easily done, not too expensive and would make backing the trailer a bit easier (longer trailer). If you were closer, I would say come on over. ---- Jerry/Idaho
Chuck Tribolet posted 12-04-2005 05:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Warren: that bow stop sure looks bolt on to me. There's two
big bolts underneath it. You may not be able to move the
bow stop further forward, but you can sure get a different one
that allows the boat to move forward.

And get some EzGuiders -- if you ever get the boat on a little
to one side, the bunk is going to wipe out your live well pump.


Chuck

Chuck Tribolet posted 12-04-2005 05:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
There was some discussion earlier in the thread on the effect
of trailer attitude on tongue weight.

I just weighed my Montauk's tongue weight three ways:

tongue on the scale: 161 pounds.
tongue level (by eyeball): 153 pounds.
tongue way up: 145 pounds.

These were rather radical changes (about 17" between on the
scale and way up). Even so the change was 16 pounds, which is in
the noise level.


Chuck

WT posted 12-04-2005 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Yep:

It looks like I need a new bowstop assembly that will allow me to move the Montauk forward on the bunks.

I plan on getting some side bunk type guides. It would really help when it's windy.

I better have that bilge moved inboard too. :)

Thanks,
Warren

Chuck Tribolet posted 12-04-2005 10:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
The problem with the bunk type guides is that on a steep ramp
the boat can go over the top of them, which can have two bad
effects:

1. The gel coat can get scratched by the bunk brackets.

2. The boat can break the gude board.

My buddy Kawika had both of these happen with his 170. He's going
to the post type guiders.


Chuck

Bulldog posted 12-08-2005 02:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Warren, when I said get a Pacific trailer , I meant just the trailer not one with a boat on it! Congrats on the Revenge!....Jack
nydealer posted 12-11-2005 08:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for nydealer  Send Email to nydealer     
Warren,
The problem with the Trailer is it is custom made for the Factory outfitted boat Montauk. There almost no adjustment that can be made. You may want to look hard at where the boat will sit on the trailer before you modify the tongue. Everyone has covered most items except what could happen to your rear window with the boat closer. The square nose of the montauk could cause issues when backing the trailer into a turn. The Trailer that comes with the Montauk is good for most purposes and helps Whaler be competitive on price. With all of the additional customizations you have done, you may need to look at a different trailer. You may not need to go to a custom trailer. Look at an adjustable brand (ie. EZ Loader, Shore Land'r, also many others) that can be fine tuned to fit your needs. These typically have moveable axles, adjustable bunks, and winch stands. Just something to think about.
WT posted 12-12-2005 11:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Boston Whaler and my dealer have said that I have overloaded the trailer. I guess I agree. My dealer says that my trailer doesn't come with any other bow stop but they may have one that allows me to move my boat forward a few inches.

Thanks for the replies,
Warren

Buckda posted 12-13-2005 04:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Warren -

Newport Whaler (Tom) has a solution that might work for you. As NY Dealer mentioned above, his trailer tongue was very short on his Newport, to the point that the square bow put a dent in the rear corner of his 4Runner. He also often launches at a very shallow ramp, so he added a very long, removable tongue. It increased his tongue weight as well.

If you have the space available, you may wish to try that if other options fail.

Dave

Chuck Tribolet posted 12-13-2005 09:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
A longer tongue can either reduce or increase the tongue
weight. If the extension is light, it increases the lever
arm and the tongue weight goes down. As an extreme case,
consider an extension made of unobtanium that weighs nothing.
If the extension weighs much more than the longer lever arm
reduces the tongue weight, then the tongue weight goes up.
Note that I said "much more" because the weight of the extension
is applied at the CG of the extension, so there's a bit of a
lever arm applied to that too.


Chuck

high sierra posted 12-15-2005 01:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for high sierra  Send Email to high sierra     
Warren, it's the weight distribution in the boat. If you move the boat forward, The bunks will not fit and will possibly damage the hull. You might move your bait tank to the forward part of the boat, put all the anchor chain you need in the forward hatch and cut down on the amount of batteries that you carry. A longer tongue is not the answer. Have a Merry Christmas. High Sierra
Riverwhaler posted 12-15-2005 08:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Riverwhaler  Send Email to Riverwhaler     
Are you sure you cannot move the axle back? That is going to make a difference on the tongue weight. I did it on my former Montauk trailer and got the weight right on....
WT posted 12-15-2005 07:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Riverwhaler:

The only way to move my axle back is to remove and re-weld the brackets to the trailer. I'm going to call a local trailer shop to see how much they will charge to have this done.

Thanks for all the replies,

Warren

high sierra posted 12-15-2005 09:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for high sierra  Send Email to high sierra     
Warren, I wonder how a torsion bar axle would work . They sure are trick. No springs. Bolt on the axle. Independent suspension. High sierra
deepwater posted 12-25-2005 05:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for deepwater  Send Email to deepwater     
if its welded on it can be rewelded ,, take the kicker hang it on the bowrail untill you launch ,,drain the bait well till your in the water, get liter batteries with the same cca,, put your anchor locker plug in and fill with water,, its just a thing do some thinkin drinkin
bigjohn1 posted 12-26-2005 06:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Hang a kicker on a bow rail?
WT posted 08-31-2007 06:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Update:

I had a new bow stop assembly installed on my Karavan trailer today. I also had the ends of my old bunks cut off 6 inches.

My 170 Montauk is now moved forward by about 6 inches. I forgot to have the shop re-weigh my tongue weight but it is a lot heavier than the old 69 pound tongue weight.

It tows MUCH MUCH better.

Here are some pictures:

New bow stop assembly.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=DSC_8708.jpg

Old bow stop assembly:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=DSCN0827.jpg

Warren

Casco Bay Outrage posted 09-01-2007 09:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Casco Bay Outrage  Send Email to Casco Bay Outrage     
Warren -

Excellent! That looks MUCH MUCH better.

Regards,

CBO

Bulldog posted 09-02-2007 01:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Looks like a Pacific Trailer winch stand. How are the bunks set up at the back now, is the transome supported good? Glad it is towing better, it is amazing how a couple inches can make a big difference!...........Jack
WT posted 09-02-2007 02:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Transome is supported well.

Old setup, bunks sticking out a few inches. Chuck Tribolet was correct in his earlier post, in that I had wiped out my livewell pump a couple of times while loading the Montauk off line onto the trailer.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=DSCN0824.jpg


New setup, bunks not sticking out from under the transome, livewell pump, transducer are safe.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=DSC_8710.jpg

Prior to moving my Montauk up a few inches, my 24 gallon Pate tank was more aft of the trailer axel. Now the Pate tank is center above the trailer axel.

Warren

Chuck Tribolet posted 09-02-2007 02:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I don't see why the old bow stop couldn't move farther
forward just by moving the tongue jack behind it.


Chuck

WT posted 09-02-2007 03:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
My old bow stop could not be moved any further forward. My swing tongue assemble was in the way.

Here's a better angle of where the old bow stop was positioned on the trailer.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=Montauk4-10-04035.jpg

I guess my point to this thread is that 170 Montauk owners should check their tongue weights because mine was so far off the norm. Also 170 Montauk owners might be better off if they move their boats a little fore on the trailer. And, you might want to cut off the ends of your bunks if they might get in the way.

Warren

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