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Author Topic:   1994 Outrage 24 repower
Perseverance posted 01-24-2006 07:18 PM ET (US)   Profile for Perseverance   Send Email to Perseverance  
I have a 1994 Outrage 24 with twin Evinrude Ocean Pro 200s. These weigh 455 lb. each. I'm considering repowering with twin ETEC 200 HOs, which weigh 524 lb. Whaler customer service told me the max engine weight is 1110 lb. I'm somewhat concerned to be so close to the max weight limit. Does anyone know of another Outrage 24 with twin ETEC 200 HOs, or another motors with similar weight? I did find a McKeeCraft 24 with twin 200 HOs, and it seems to float at the right attitude. The McKee is very close in size and weight as the Outrage. Any feedback is appreciated.
andygere posted 01-24-2006 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
The small block (2.6 liter) E-TEC 200 would be ideal. The 25" version weighs just 427 pounds.
Perseverance posted 01-24-2006 10:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
Yes,the 60 deg 200s would be ideal as far as weight goes. But, there is a downside, I think. My concern with the 60 deg 200s is that they aren't out yet, and I'd be buying close to serial#1. Also, it's the same block as the 150 and 175 (158 cu.in, vs. 200 cu.in. for the HOs, so I think it'll have to work harder than the HOs. I believe my current Ocean Pros have a 200 cu.in. block.
phatwhaler posted 01-25-2006 01:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
We used to have a 1997 24 Justice with twin 200 Optimax's on it at the CG station. This boat also had the heavy aluminum tow bitt, snap-back screen, radome pedestal. That's way more weight than a couple of big block Etec's, and it sat with the scuppers about two inches above the water. I think a couple of 200 Etecs on a Outrage 24 would be a sweet setup. Imagine the range with fuel efficient power and a 175 gallon fuel tank.

phatwhaler out.

Make sure the panel located in the splash well is watertight. The 5200 around the perimeter tends to get old and let water into the bilge, as do the seals on the plastic hatches back there.

Perseverance posted 01-25-2006 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
Thanks, phatwhaler. I agree. The Optimax 200 is 497 lb. By the way, I did see a boat just like you describe at CG station Yankeetown, FL.
LHG posted 01-25-2006 01:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Before you even consider the Evinrude HO's, you should read this entire thread, and look at the underlying B&WB mag article also.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004039.html

To me, from my perspective, the standard 200 Optimax will be a better, lower cost, better fuel mileage, and better performing & accelerating engine.

Andy, question for you, since you seem to be heading for the 2.7 liter 200 Evinrude. In light of the 3.3 liter 200 High Output's performance against the Optimax 200, how do you think the small version will perform? I can't imagine it has the same power. Maybe only better economy

Perseverance posted 01-25-2006 03:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
Thanks. It looks like good data. Can you point me to the magazine article? B&WB??
Buckda posted 01-25-2006 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Bass and Walleye Boats Magazine.

You may have to special order it.

Dave

Ed Stone posted 01-26-2006 09:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Its a tough decision when repowering with twins
as to how much to invest in a boat thats twelve
years old.

Twin Optis or Etecs are going to need new controls,
key switches and probaly gauges.With the install
I would guess close to 30 grand.

I've looked at quite a few 24 Outrages and do think
they are fine boats.

If a person took that 30 and sold the 24
for close to 30 they could purchase a later
model whaler with low hours.

Another option would be to purchase a couple
of new Johnson 150's from Eds marine.You might
be able to use the same controls and gauges.
They have them priced at $7499.
Ed Stone

tyler993 posted 01-30-2006 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for tyler993  Send Email to tyler993     
I repowered my 94 Outrage with a single Suzuki 250 four stroke. I had twin Johnson 150's (carb). I shed about 250 pounds off my transom and gave up 1/2 mph on the top end. Haven't gotten fuel stats yet but I anticipate better than 50% reduction. Unless you are hardcore offshore fisherman type, consider a single 250 (Suzuki, Yamaha, Evinrude, etc.) and use the money you save on gas for a few years !
Ed Stone posted 01-30-2006 08:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
I have first hand experience with suzuki 200
4-strokes. They troll without a problem.

Whats the top end with the 250 suzuki?
Mid 40's I would guess.
Ed Stone

Dr Don posted 01-31-2006 09:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dr Don  Send Email to Dr Don     
Just went from twin 175 carbed Evinrudes to 150 4 stroke Yamaha's on my 1996 24 Outrage. I really can not notice any difference in performance. I can plane on one engine, top out at 48mph (have not really pushed the top end much) and hole shot is very good. I also like the E-tec 175-200 or the new Suzuki 175. I blew a lower unit last year and did not want to wait. The Yamaha's were 28,000 installed with new gauges, controls, and props. Nice not adding oil, no regrets so far. At least 1/3 less fuel burn. The Yammies also seem to have a good track record so far and have been out for a few years. They seem like a good match to the boat so far.
andygere posted 02-01-2006 01:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Larry,
I was lucky enough to take a quick spin in a mid 80's Revenge 22 with a 3.3 liter E-TEC. Low end performance was absolutely scalding. Low end performance with my 2.4 liter Mercury 200 was very good, and always satisfactory for me. I expect the performance of the 2.6 liter E-TEC to be at least as good. There's no doubt that the big block would be a step up in performance from what I've got now, but I've always been very pleased with the way the boat peformed with the small block Merc. For me, the big trade off is a little extra power vs. the extra weight. I like to run the boat with the plugs out so it will truly self bail. I think that is one of the best features of the 22 hull, and since I frequently boat is sloppy, open ocean conditions, I'm willing to sacrafice a bit of speed for better overall balance and trim. With a kicker and a pair of group 27 batteries, I've already got some weight on the transom, and that extra 100 pounds does make a difference. Also, the higher profile of the big block motor will not allow me to tilt my motor fully without modifying some aftermarket rails that are on the boat. Having to remove or modify the rails factored into the decision as well.
Perseverance posted 02-01-2006 05:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
Thanks for all the data, guys. It sounds like no one has put twin 200 HOs on an Outrage 24. Now, twin Yamaha 150 4-strokes are 466 lb each, so that's close to the weight of my current 200s. Out of all the responses, the twin optimax 200s in the USCG boat seems to come the closest to the weight of the 200 HOs at 497 lb each (vs. 524 lb). No one has said: don't do it, it's too close to the 1110 weight limit. So it seems we all trust Whaler's specifications, yes?

Please tell me about Ed's Marine. I've seen its lower prices. Am I correct to assume that those prices are just for the motor, so one would have to add all the cables, gauges, and installation? Plus shipping, since Ed's is in VA and I'm in FL? Or does buying there mean trailering the boat to Ed's and have tehm install it? Any first hand experience? Thanks.

Perseverance posted 02-01-2006 05:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
BTW, I'm really surprised to hear that one 150HP will put Dr Don's Outrage 24 on a plane. Whaler specs is 200 HP minimum to plane. Did it plane on one of your old 175s? The ETEC 150s are $24K vs. $30 for the 200 HOs. Unfortunately, I do think I need twins. I've had to come back on one motor more than once.

LHG posted 02-01-2006 06:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I'd put a pair of Optimax 200's on it, for Kramer's "best of breed" in speed, fuel economy and total cost. You can buy them in FL for about $11.5K each, new, and 5 year full factory non-declining warranty. I hear the Yamaha 200 HPDI's are excellent too. Relatively speaking, unfortunately the Evinrude 200 HO's are not tuned for economy from what I have seen in the press. Maybe the 225's would be a smarter purchase.

For Mercs, shop Sundance in FT Lauderdale, and TNT Champion in North Miami. Both should have better pricing than Bass Pro.

For less speed, but superior running and handling qualities, and the ultimate in status appeal, might also consider trailing it up to Almars in Delaware (near Philly) for a no sales tax, ($2000 saving) fully rigged installation of twin 175 Verados for about 27K total, including DTS and Smartcraft, 5 year factory warranty. But only if this look is not to far out for you:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Verados/?action=view& current=7269006-R1-048-22A.jpg

Buckda posted 02-01-2006 06:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Every time I see that photo, I think about what R2-D2 would have looked like had Darth Vader designed him. Probably have a bad attitude too.

Very cool looking setup.

Still wondering where the "buy North American" sentiment goes after Mercury recommendations.... :)

Perserverance:
I think most folks agree that Whaler is fairly conservative on both HP ratings and transom weight ratings.

I'd also like to hear more (perhaps in another thread) about your experiences coming home on only one motor (on more than one occasion). There was much talk about this earlier with the prevailing thought here that twins probably aren't a necessary thing because "how often do you have to come home on one motor, when the problem isn't fuel--related).

For my part, I'm a fan of twins and the confidence they provide, however I'd like to hear more so that can be discussed in further detail. If you're so inclined; I thank you in advance.

Regards,
Dave

phatwhaler posted 02-01-2006 07:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
I didn't want to say anything but I find it hard to believe that a single 150HP fourstroke outboard will plane a boat weighing in at around 5500lbs. I have tried to plane a 24 Justice with a 200 Opti, and three guys sitting on the bow, with no luck.

phatwhaler out.

Dr Don posted 02-01-2006 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dr Don  Send Email to Dr Don     
The 175's also got the boat up on plane with one engine and I came home twice from over 30 mile out on a single. Oxygen sensor one time and stator the other. It would run 27-28 MPH at a bit less than 4500 RPM. The Yamaha will definitely get it up on one (two adults moderate gear, 1/2 tank fuel, T-Top). I told the dealer I did not care that much about top end (48 MPH) but had to get up on one engine and they water test so maybe several prop were tried. I tried looking and can't see the size on the props. I read many boat reports of other similar size/weight boats that said they could get up one one Yamaha. Several dealers reported similar with Sailfish, Regulator ect. In my book if you can't plane on one no sense having twins (Big single and kicker)offshore. 30+ miles is a long way plowing through the water. To plane on one make sure the bilge is dry, trim tabs down, one engine up and the other trimmed in and weight up front helps. Like I said so far no regrets with the 150 Yamahas. I talked to one other 24 owner and he could plane on a 150 Oceanrunner and later a Ficht 150. I also bought mine on an end of the season sale. I figured there would be quite a price difference waiting for the Suzuki or E-Tecs, my two other choices. I honestly could not think of any reason to put the Optimax over the Yamahas on the boat. The others are a different story esp if money does not matter. Good Luck!!
Dr Don posted 02-01-2006 08:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dr Don  Send Email to Dr Don     
The 24 Justice is a commercial grade boat and weighs quite a bit more than a normal 24. I have the weights somewhere but can't find them at the moment. Props can make a big difference.
Perseverance posted 02-02-2006 05:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
The 24 Justice hull weighs 3400 lbs. (Whaler website), vs. 3100 for the outrage (I saved the specs). Of course that doesn't count special equipment the Justice may have.
Still, it is the same hull shape. My understanding is that the extra weight is thicker fiberglass. I'd assume both have similar floatation characteristics.


Perseverance posted 02-02-2006 05:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perseverance  Send Email to Perseverance     
Buckda: I will start a new thread "Twins bring you back"

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