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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
170 Montauk: Price of New Boats
|Author||Topic: 170 Montauk: Price of New Boats|
posted 03-27-2006 05:13 PM ET (US)
I need help on pricing a brand new model year 2006 MONTAUK 170 with a 90-HP four-stroke Mercury, fishing package, swim platform, bow cushion and bimini top. My local dealer is quoting me $1,490 ABOVE national list price, including freight, preparation, and Coast Guard safety equipment package. He is then taking that $1,490 off as a discount, leaving me with a list price as a buy price. Basically he marked it up to mark it down. Am I missing something here?
Should I expect this from every Whaler dealer?
Is there some room in there to move?
How much [of a discount from the national list price] should I be [able to negotiate]?
[My local dealer] is telling me there is NO discount off the retail (list) price that Whaler shows. I find that hard to believe.
I was on this board a couple years ago looking to buy and ended up not, now I am back on board (no pun intended ;o) and looking to make a purchase. You all were a wealth of information and I am hoping you might be able to chime in again. Help and thanks in adavance!
posted 03-27-2006 07:20 PM ET (US)
Be a consumer and SHOP!
posted 03-27-2006 10:23 PM ET (US)
Just about every boat show I've been to they have offered significant discounts off of the list price for Whalers. Might be worth your while to try and find a show to attend.
posted 03-28-2006 08:51 AM ET (US)
Thanks guys, I knew I wasn't loosing my mind - every other boat I have bought I have negotiated and done pretty well, I just haven't purchased a Whaler before so I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing anything.
posted 03-28-2006 01:01 PM ET (US)
I think the new 150 Montauk is driving up the price of the 170. Seems to me I was quoted a price in 2005 for a 170 with a few options for around $22K before the 150 official started production.
posted 03-28-2006 09:10 PM ET (US)
Depending on what show you went to, Whaler had factory Rebates available. These ended Last month. Any shows late in the season will be without these significant discounts.
posted 03-29-2006 12:05 PM ET (US)
It's not the price so much that has got me, it is the fact that they are all selling at LIST or better, not dealing at all... Guess if you want to play, you have to pay?
posted 03-29-2006 12:12 PM ET (US)
Since you've waited a couple years already, it is apparent that "they need you more than you need them."
Ask if that is the best they can do. If so, then say it is not good enough and walk away. There are other dealers out there.
The challenge in boat buying is that there is not as much dealer competition in a given market.
If you plan to buy it yourself (not financed) you should send the sales managers at several regional dealerships an e-mail, and CC the other managers so they know with whom they are competing.
Tell them exactly what you are looking for, and the exact options. Tell them you will pay in cash to the dealership who returns the lowest price...then buy from that dealer.
This tactic is detailed in a study of how "real" millionaires in this country (Not the glitzy ones... the everyday millionaire next door guys) buy automobiles. They dictate what they want and let the dealerships bid on their business.
You don't NEED a boat to live. Your job isn't dependent on you buying that boat, and so your house payment, your kid's clothing and your food this month will all still be paid for even if you don't come home with a Montauk. But every one at that dealership NEEDS customers to stay in business.
Capitalize on that power position.
posted 03-29-2006 01:31 PM ET (US)
Buckda, Not too many people are independently wealthy to pay cash for a boat, however I always thought that when a buyer finances throught the dealership the dealer makes a percentage profit from the loan.
Is this true???
posted 03-29-2006 03:50 PM ET (US)
Depends on who finances it. When a car dealer sets you up with Chase bank instead of GMAC, you know they are getting a nice kickback...decline it and watch them fidgit.
posted 03-29-2006 10:54 PM ET (US)
If you can find a way to install:
You may be able to deduct from your taxes, the interest from a home equity loan before the republicans upset the apple cart!
posted 03-31-2006 06:45 AM ET (US)
In days gone buy, offering to pay cash for a boat or car was incentive for the dealer to deal. Not so anymore, with streamlined computerized application/approval processes, getting a loan isn't any harder than paying cash. And as someone said, depending on who's doing the financing, the dealer may indeed make more money selling a financed boat.
But getting back to the original topic, it was my impression that almost no one pays list price for cars or boats... everyone has to at least think they're getting a deal. And sellers know this so they resort to all kinds of tricks like marking up to mark down, or faking the MSRP, or giving you a deal on the base boat and overcharging for add-ons, etc etc.
It's a free market. Each side gets what it can. Just remember that the dealer has a lot of practice at the game, and you probably don't. Unfortunately salespeople of high-ticket items (who depend on commissions for a big percentage of their income) don't have a lot of incentive to tell the truth. I don't trust a single one of them.
posted 03-31-2006 10:40 PM ET (US)
I think this has come up before. Whaler started with the 130 sport when they redesigned it offering a package. Whaler does not set a higher Retail price for the sport/Montauk series. These boats have a nationally advertised selling price + Frt and Prep. This allows Whaler to keep these boats at aggressive prices because they are the entry sizes where they want to be more competitive(not to say these are entry level boats) The rest of the Whaler line has a retail and the dealer sets there own discount and price. This is getting more common in the marine industry. Most companies have at least one model that they are pricing like this. Look at Tahoe and Tracker for example.
posted 04-01-2006 07:58 AM ET (US)
[The discussion was initiated in the MARKETPLACE section. As a courtesy to those who responded, I have moved it to the proper discussion area.]
posted 04-01-2006 08:28 AM ET (US)
The cost of freight is always in addition to the MSRP. This is a legitimate expense on any dealer's quotation. In my experience these charges are usually not excessive, and you probably could not obtain transport of the boat from Edgewater, Florida to your location at a lower cost by any commercial shipper.
The cost of preparation covers the cost of dealer added items. For example, the dealer generally installs a battery, and probably adds fuel to the boat. The dealer usually primes and runs the engine. The dealer may also install a different propeller (see below). These are legitimate expenses. The dealer also has to prepare the boat for deliver to the customer, including removing the protective shipping covers, removing any required clamps or restrictors on the fuel line which were placed only for shipping to comply with regulations, and to clean and prepare the boat. These are costs which are part of the dealer's overhead, and in my opinion should not be borne by the customer. Some dealers may try to pass those cost on to their customers as a specific expense in their preparation charge.
Equipment added by the dealer for compliance with minimum safety regulations, such as flares, fire extinguishers, PFD's, and signals are all legitimate expenses. Sometimes an anchor and rode are included. Sometimes mooring lines and fendering is included. These are all legitimate expenses. In most cases the costs of such added equipment is quite reasonable, and it would be difficult to purchase the equipment at retail for a lower cost.
There is no particular reason to view these legitimate expenses as a birthright that should be provided for free when purchasing a new Boston Whaler boat. Therefore, if the a dealer itemizes these expenses and adds them to the quotation, he is completely legitimate.
If he then deducts the cost of these expenses from the quotation, he is indeed providing a discount. You can choose to view the discount as coming from the base price of the boat or from the itemized costs of the expenses, but in either case, it is a legitimate discount.
There was a report that a dealer was delivering some Boston Whaler boats with an aluminum propeller when the standard propeller was specified to be a stainless steel propeller. This was later resolved by replacement with the proper propeller. The difference in price between an aluminum propeller ($140) and a stainless steel propeller ($400 or more) is significant. If a boat is delivered with a propeller different than the specified standard propeller, the costs should be adjusted as appropriate.
Equipment installed by or added by the dealer may not represent the best possible choice. The customer may prefer a better grade of equipment. In those situations the negotiations should specify a particular device or omit some equipment for later installation by the customer. For example, the dealer may install and charge for a battery. The exact type of battery should be specified and its cost judged. There is no point in paying $150 for the dealer to install a $39 battery. The same goes for other equipment. Why buy six bottom-rung PFD's if you already own expensive safety equipment?
posted 04-01-2006 09:04 AM ET (US)
Back in 2003, I found the two MA Boston Whaler dealers would not negotiate on price. Things have not changed. I was able to buy one of the last '03 from one dealer, where the other dealer was only selling '04's. The was a pretty healthy difference in price between the two years.
They make about $5k on each 170 Montauk.
posted 04-02-2006 06:14 PM ET (US)
Is there a web site one can find the "national list price" of current year Whalers? I too am looking for an '06 Montauk and would like to at least know what the ballpark figure is so I can gauge if the dealer is padding above the norm.
posted 04-02-2006 07:01 PM ET (US)
Please disregard my last post. "Build your Whaler" option on the official Boston Whaler web site did the trick.
posted 04-02-2006 07:55 PM ET (US)
There is a dealer in Chester County, Pa. selling the 2006 170 package with the cooler/rod option and a 90hp 2 stroke merc for $20,660.00 + tax.
posted 04-02-2006 10:33 PM ET (US)
I would check the model year of that 170. I thought that they were only equipping the new models with a 90 horse four stroke or the 60. If it was a 2006 that would be a great price.
posted 04-03-2006 12:13 AM ET (US)
I bought my 2006 montauk for list price. I shopped 2 dealers. The dealers seem to be joining together and sticking to list price.
I bought from my local dealer for the convenience of servicing and am glad that I did.
You get what you pay for. I received excellent service from my local dealer. There were not too many dealers around here anyway.
I think my boat is a great deal at the sticker price. I did get the prep thrown in.
posted 04-03-2006 06:44 PM ET (US)
In my experience the "extras" such as CG kits, PFD's are the cheapest the dealer feels he can get away with using and misrepresents them with inflated prices and "worth".
Buy your own.
posted 04-04-2006 05:36 PM ET (US)
Well, I finally did it. I purchaced a 2006 MONTAUK 170 with a 90-HP four-stroke Mercury, fishing package, swim platform and bow cushion. The dealer must have backed off shipping and prep as the price came in a tad under MSRP. They are adding CG package as well as anchor with rode. I feel like I did OK. Heck, I'm just happy to finally part of the family.
See you on the waterways!
posted 04-13-2006 10:41 AM ET (US)
Well, thanks to all of you that chimed in on this topic, this board is truly a wealth of Whaler info! So, after some deliberation and negotiation - I decided to buy the 170, well along with the encouragement of my wife and 1 yr old son ;o). I have had several perfomance boats, all of which she has enjoyed but been afraid to drive, so I decided I needed to go back to something that was fun and easy for her to learn on. To be honest I am pretty psyched about this boat, I guess the "gas-and-go" along with low maintenance and high-quality of it is what really has me hooked. I ended up going with a 2006, 90hp 4S, blue graphics, fish package, bow cushion, bimini top, swim platform, etc... I got in on the extended warranty from Merc., bumping it to 5 yrs total, CG pack and saved a few bucks in the process. So, all-in-all I am happy and looking forward to getting out in it in a couple weeks and seeing how it runs.
Once I get it, I'll take some pics and put 'em up. Thanks again and maybe I'll see some of you out on the water?
posted 04-13-2006 10:42 AM ET (US)
Oh yeah, and sorry about putting this in the wrong section to start Jim, I guess I just wasn't paying attention.
posted 04-13-2006 04:29 PM ET (US)
Congrats on buying the boat, I think you hit it , when you said "simple", that is one thing I really like about that boat, it is what it is, and doesn't have a bilge, blowers, or too many complicated systems!.Enjoy......Jack
posted 04-13-2006 09:32 PM ET (US)
Hey Mark, looks like we have twin boats. I too got the extended warranty from Merc. Congrats!
posted 04-13-2006 11:16 PM ET (US)
Congratulations on choosing the 170 Montauk. It is a very versatile boat. I fish in lakes, rivers and 30+ miles offshore.
The Montauk is the "little boat that could".
I'm sure that you guys will enjoy your purchase.
posted 04-14-2006 07:07 PM ET (US)
The pictures are fantastic, enjoyed by all I'm sure.
posted 04-14-2006 07:32 PM ET (US)
You do not have to be independently wealthy to pay cash for a car or a boat.
Don't get me wrong. I financed my truck (at 0% for 5 years), and my first Whaler....a used boat. I'm not knocking anyone who does finance their purchases, so long as they can keep up with their obligations.
In this case, the poster had mentioned that he'd already waited a couple years to buy.
Given that information, and considering that a loan for a 170 is likely a 5 year deal, if he'd been making "payments" to himself for those two years, he'd only have to wait 2 1/2 more years to pay cash (considering that 1/2 year of payments is taken up by finance charges).
That 25K loan becomes 30K really fast when you finance it.
In fact, it could be argued that people who are independently wealthy may be that way precisely because of how they pay for their toys.
All of that aside, the same tactic can apply even if you're financing the boat- through your local bank or credit union....if you have the loan approved, you can essentially do the same thing.
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