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Author Topic:   Broken Bow rail joint on 2006 Montauk
whalerdude posted 05-31-2006 09:21 AM ET (US)   Profile for whalerdude   Send Email to whalerdude  
Just wanted to let you know how surprised to find that my bow rail broke at the front port side base where it is welded. I was really surprised to hear a rattle while driving on Monday and to find the weld had failed.

I called the dealer Gage marine. they are great. they offered to weld it as a temp. fix and then will order a whole new bow railing for me.

The bow rail and some trim peeling off of the center console are the only quality problems I have experienced so far.

I am still happy with the boat-

Whalerdude

fishinchips posted 06-01-2006 07:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishinchips  Send Email to fishinchips     
My bow rail on my 170 had a broken screw.
I will remove the bow rail during the off season and remove the broken screw. Its not a big issue.

Ken (170 montauk / 22 hydrasports vector wa)

whalerdude posted 06-02-2006 12:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
Mine broke due to the weld.

I thought that the welded railing would be better than the old Montauk railings that had screws to hold the vertical railing to the base fitting. the old montauk railings would loosen up all the time.

Now I am not so sure.

Tom W Clark posted 06-02-2006 12:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
The weld failure on your rail is the result of metal fatigue. The forward portion of those rails flexes quite a bit when running and the bending is the greatest at the first stanchions which is where it broke on your boat.

The bow rails of the MT 170 are a but under-designed in my opinion. It is almost as if there should be another stanchion at the bow.

Buckda posted 06-02-2006 12:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Jack -

The guys at Gage's Marine are stand up fellas. I'm glad they're dealers now, but I wish they weren't the only authorized dealer for the whole Chicago area, since they're 1. Not in the same state that Chicago resides in, and 2. not even on a lake that is accessed by many Chicagoans.

At the same time, I've spoken with them on several occasions and have nothing but positive experiences in those interactions...

I'm glad they're treating you right.

While many businesses treat something like that as an expensive way to do business (I doubt Whaler will reimburse them for the welding that they do, just for the failed rail), I submit that it's ultimately much less expensive to do business that way because if the customer is comfortable and happy with your business, he/she will come back.

It's good to know that those guys are that kind of business.

Unfortunately, off the top of my head as I write this, I can only think of about 10 businesses I know that are that way...and none of them, off the top of my head, are within the city limits....and two of them are in Canada!

Dave

imko posted 06-04-2006 04:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for imko  Send Email to imko     
Maybe this is a solution:

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/?action=view¤t=DSC01933.jpg

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/?action=view¤t=DSC01935.jpg

Regards,

Imko

Marsh posted 06-05-2006 06:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marsh  Send Email to Marsh     
Now THAT'S the way Whaler should have done it, in my humble opinion.

Imko, would you be willing to share the list of materials and modification instructions for the added staunchion you installed? I for one would like to consider doing the same mod.

Marsh

whalerdude posted 06-06-2006 10:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
Imko
Thanks for posting your photos of your bow rail modification. I have had two classic montauks and they both had the center support post on the bow rail. I was VERY surprised to see that my boat came without one! It vibrates a lot and seems flimsy underway.

Whaler definately needs to incorporate the additional support brace on future models.

The dealer wants to weld the railing back together. I'll give it a try.

They will order an entire new railing if i am not happy.


I will ask them to add the center support.

Buckda-I checked out your web page photos of your boat. SHarp rig!

bobeson posted 06-07-2006 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for bobeson  Send Email to bobeson     

The bow rail on my 2003 Montauk 170 also broke at the base of the port side forward stanchion. I haven't contacted the dealer to have it fixed yet, so I don't know what they'll say about it being out of warranty. Hopefully they will still fix it, but even still I will have to drive over 2 hours each way for a total of nearly 9 hours of driving to drop off and pick it up. In addition to the time involved, the fuel to run my truck that far will be over $100. I sure wish there was a Whaler dealer in the Monterey Bay area.
prj posted 06-07-2006 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
While this may not make you feel better,
check out the stanchion spread on the 190 Montauk,
particularly those shots jimh attached on 06.04.06 at 12:38 am:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012074.html

Perhaps this discussion should be forwarded to BW Designers...

Marsh posted 06-07-2006 09:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marsh  Send Email to Marsh     
It still puzzles me why Whaler abandoned what, at least in my opinion, was a clearly superior Montauk bow rail design somewhere between the "classic" and the "post-classic" eras.

Interestingly, I have a 2003 Whaler brochure that says:

"GRAB RAILS. Grab rails on competitors' designs are few and far between. Whaler owners are confident about taking their boats into conditions where others won't venture. So we make sure they have plenty of sturdy, well-positioned grab rails..."

The accompanying picture in the brochure compares the 4-screw rail mounting bases of the Whaler rails to the obviously inferior 3-screw mounts of "other boats".

Ironically, the very next model year, 2004, Whaler changed to a 3-screw mount. Little things like this are what I miss from my classic Montauk, compared to my '04 model. The '04 is a great boat, but the rails are no match at all for the ones on a classic. Anybody ever hear of a bow rail break on a classic?

Go figure.

Marsh

fishinchips posted 06-07-2006 09:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishinchips  Send Email to fishinchips     
yes, I have a 97 montauk that I busted the bow rail right at the T section.
Fixed under warrenty and it still broke later.

I believe from 1996 on the rails were all welded not peiced together.

ken (170 montauk / 22 hydrasports vector wa)

imko posted 06-13-2006 02:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for imko  Send Email to imko     
New bow rail pics:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/DSCF0536.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/DSCF0535.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/DSCF0534.jpg

you need: 1 plate t=3mm , and about 0,5 mtr seamless
pipe Ø 22 x 2mm (316L)

Drill the holes from the clamp into the plate
Spot weld the pipe (same angle as other pipes)on the plate
Than weld it complete.

Use sealing under the plate (i used Sikaflex 221 white)

Than weld the other side on the bow rail.

You must measure the dimension for yourself. No whaler
or bow rail is the same.

Regards,

Imko


chopbuster posted 06-14-2006 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for chopbuster  Send Email to chopbuster     
An excellent modification/improvement to the poorly designed 170 bow railing.

I'll wager that it does not vibrate as configured.

erik selis posted 06-26-2006 04:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Imko,

That's a great modification you made to the bow rail. Simple yet very professional. Thanks for sharing the information. It's now one of the things on my to-do-list.

Erik

Chuck Tribolet posted 06-29-2006 12:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/DSCF0536.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/DSCF0535.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/ihoekstra/DSCF0534.jpg


Chuck

stiles_s posted 07-28-2006 04:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for stiles_s  Send Email to stiles_s     
IMKO, sorry to hijack the thread but I see what looks like a bench seat in your Montauk. True? If so, how did you fab it up or where did you source it? This may solve my wife's concerns about our 19mos-old not being able to sit w/us.

Thanks!!!

Chuck Tribolet posted 07-28-2006 08:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
If you are talking about imko's boat (the only pix posted
in the thread), that's a standard Montauk 170 seat.


Chuck

whalerdude posted 07-29-2006 10:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
I am waiting for a new railing.

Gage marine is great!

Whaler however sent them the WRONG bow railing so now i have to wait for another.

Here are the other warranty repairs being taken care of when I take the boat in for the railing:
1)Certification plate falling off-new one will be installed

2)Back rest of cooler seat has been cut through by rod holders. new back rest is being installed

3)trim falling off of center console

4)Mercury binnacle control cover fell off and broke (second time) new one ordered.

I bought a new boat so that I would not have to bring it in to dealer for repairs. This boat has a lot of little things that have broken or fallen off that I would not expect to have happen to a high priced boat such as a Whaler.

The boat will be one year old on August 15th.

whalerdude posted 09-04-2006 11:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
I just picked up my Montauk 170 with the new railing installed. It has been redesigned so that the forward most vertical rails have a greater angle so that they support the rail about 3" further towards the bow to reduce vibration. This is the railing new 170s will now have. I am glad that they gave me the improved railing.
erik selis posted 09-04-2006 11:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Whalerdude,

Do you have any pictures? I'm very interested to see what it looks like. Thanks,

Erik

whalerdude posted 09-12-2006 11:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
I will get them the next time I get the boat out of the storage building.
Matthew posted 09-12-2006 05:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Matthew  Send Email to Matthew     
I've always thought that the bow rail on my 170 would be most functional if there was a 18" pass through above the bow cleat. Not a removable piece of railing, but a true pass through with each side of the bow railing ending in a stantion foot. I believe Arima boats has a similar set up. Although it may not be the most aestetically pleasing railing it would make it easier to anchor, enter from a beaching, and pull my shrimp pots.
surfkast posted 09-13-2006 01:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for surfkast    
My 2006 Montauk bow rail just broke in the same place. The dealer repaired it free of charge. Sounds like a common problem. He says other ones have broken too. I agree a walk through area in the front would be nice for easy access. Anyone do that to a Montauk?
WT posted 09-13-2006 02:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Here's my solution for easy access to the bow of my 170 Montauk. :-)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=Montauk4-10-04034.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch19

Chuck Tribolet posted 09-13-2006 04:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
My buddy Kawika has broken the rail on his 170 twice. First
time the dealer fixed it. Second time he took it off.


Chuck

whalerdude posted 09-21-2006 11:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
I have photos of new installed railing. If anyone wants to see photos please email me directly.
TightPenny posted 11-15-2006 09:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for TightPenny  Send Email to TightPenny     
Marsh wrote:

Anybody ever hear of a bow rail break on a classic?

Marsh

My 2000 Montauk had major problems with its bow rail. The first was that Whaler cheaped out in the mounting screws. The factory installed #10 screws which sheared off at a regular interval. The fix for that was to replace them with 1/4"x20 screws tapped into the phenolic backing. This worked.

Because of all of the bouncing around the rail took when it sheared the screws, the weld where the bow vertical stantion met the horizontal rail let go.

Whaler ended up being nice enough to replace the rail in its entirety, at no cost to me.

As to the rail itself, I think it is a little too slender for the height. I still see a lot of vibration in the rail, even with the properly upsized mounting screws and always have the thought in my mind that someday it is going to go again.

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