Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
  NANTUCKET: Adding Trim Tabs

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   NANTUCKET: Adding Trim Tabs
lwallis posted 07-16-2006 10:10 PM ET (US)   Profile for lwallis   Send Email to lwallis  
I'm considering Bennett trim tabs on my Boston Whaler NANTUCKET. I have a question about the swim platform: is there a work around? What are the necessary clearances? Thanx - - Lars
jimh posted 07-16-2006 10:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Moved]
highanddry posted 07-16-2006 10:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
I wrote to Bennet and and they really did not have any suggestions ---they were not familar with Whalers, that is what they told me. I was looking at the M80 model. The tab would proably mount on the middle section between the strakes and most likely have to relocate the speed wheel and transducers. The swim step would be removed and clearanced and reinstalled.

That was my plan until I decided I really don't need them. If yoiu come up with anything let's me know.

Sal A posted 07-17-2006 05:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal A  Send Email to Sal A     
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/002224.html

Whalerider (Mark) installed Lencos, and would be a great person to chime in (or contact directly, if he doesn't see this thread).

TG190 also did the same (installed Lenco's), and you might find him lurking on THT.

Finally, on THT you can directly contact "the tab man" via PM or his own forum there.

The Outrage 190 only recently is being offered with trim tabs as a factory option, and I have not heard or seen of many that have it here yet.

Best of luck Lars; I am sure that tabs will be a worthy option on your boat.

13_Dauntless posted 07-17-2006 09:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for 13_Dauntless  Send Email to 13_Dauntless     
Lars,

I'm pretty familiar with Whalers. I own one currently, and have owned others in the past. For the Nantucket I'd recommend the M120 (10" x 12") trim tabs over the M80's that you mentioned. While the M80's will work for the Nantucket, the larger surface area of the M120's will give greater overall trim control allow you to plane at lower speeds than the M80's will.

Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll be glad to help.

Christian Redditt
Bennett Marine
credditt@bennetttrimtabs.com

highanddry posted 07-17-2006 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
Well, I wrote you guys and sent pictures and here were the very couteous and very quick responses but not especially helpful:


"Thank you for contacting us with your questions.

The M80 Sport Tabs should work for your installation and provide the benefits you are looking to gain, but are not familiar enough with your hull design to know if &/or how the M80's will install on your vessel. Do you have any way of providing some photos &/or drawings (w/measurements) of your transom, so we will have a better idea of your mounting limitations? If so, please send them on and we will see what we can come up with!

We look forward to your reply."

and

"Thank you for the photo.

Installation under the swim platform might be pretty hard, since you have quite a few different scupper drains and such to route the actuators around. Moving inboard to the second land between the lifting strakes would be an easier install, but then you would have to see about relocating your trailer tiedowns or crossing them under the engine. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

We look forward to your reply."


So, based on these reponses I did not much have anything to proceed on so have decided not to purchase them. ou clearly stated in the first letter you wdere not familiar with the Nantucket Boston Whaler. Again, since several people including me are interested---how would you install your product on our Nantucket/Outrage 190 Boston Whaler boats which most have the swim platofrom, the scuppers and drains are factory, the swim platform is factory and the speed wheel is factory and the trailer is factory. And, what about the sonar tranducer?
I also inquired as to how you deal with routing the cables, hoses on a Boston Whaler and that was not addressed?

This is not to embarress Bennet Company, they answered my emails right away and were very friendly and courteous. I would certainly do buisness with them when they can recommend a specific install procedure for my boat. When we are talking about expensive accesories on a 35,000 dollars boat I want a professional procedure for install or it ain't going on my boat. Any pictures of these installed on this boat would be very helpful. How and WHERE the hoses and cables are routed with specific instructions on what to do about the speed wheel as well.

J

Tabman posted 07-17-2006 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tabman  Send Email to Tabman     
Thank you for the opportunity to answer your questions. I am sure that you can understand that with thousands of boats out there all of us may not have an intimate knowledge of them all, but let me cover your boat as best I can. Christian and I are somewhat familiar with the Nantucket. (By the way I am a former Whaler owner as well; I grew up on one in the ‘60s).

We do not have any photos of Tabs installed on a Nantucket here at the factory. However I went out on the internet and found a photo of a Nantucket Transom to help me with the general layout of your boat.

I have marked it up and posted it to our web site. You may access it here:
http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/Pictures/nantucket.jpg

I believe that M120s will fit nicely on your boat. We will need a bit less then 9-1/4” of vertical clearance 90 degrees to the dead rise of the hull bottom to the top of the swim platform. The actual location will involve moving the Tab side to side a bit so that the top of the actuator may clear the scuppers. I am sorry but since I don’t have the actual measurements locating the scuppers on the transom for me I cannot give you a precise location, but it is not hard to determine once you know that the Tab is 10” in span (side to side) and the actuator will require 9-1/4” of height under the platform.

Your “speed wheel” would best be moved over to port (if it is in the same place as the one in the photo), to the same approximate position as the transducer on the port side. The fish finder transducer can stay where it is.

Since the M120 has a chord (fore to aft measurement) of 11-5/8” you will want to check to make sure the ladder is more then that measurement aft of the transom when it is lowered.

I would suggest that the HPU (pump) be mounted in the center console, running the two hydraulic lines up the chase. There power can be supplied to the pump and control.

Again I apologize that we do not have “specs” on every boat out there and do not have “professional procedures” written for specific boats. However I hope this is helpful and stand ready to supply answers to any specific questions you may have.

Sincerely,

Tom McGow
Bennett Marine

Tabman posted 07-17-2006 04:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tabman  Send Email to Tabman     
I almost forgot, detailed illustrated installation instructions for the M120s can be found here:
http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/m80install.htm

They are helpful in determining the layout of an installation.

Tom McGow
Bennett Marine

lwallis posted 07-17-2006 05:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for lwallis  Send Email to lwallis     
Thanks everyone especially Tabman. I've been planning on the M120s. I'll be taking measurements ASAP. My transom configuration is a little different than the one pictured. My sonar transducer is mounted starboard outboard on the bottom of the boat if I remember correctly and I have only one transducer vice the two shown. I also only have one of the two drains shown. My problem may be a little easier than originally thought if the hydraulic actuator can be mounted at an angle (i.e. additional clearance). I always like a challenge. A poem from a well known danish poet:

" Problems worth of attack, prove their worth by hitting back" - - Piet Heim

Cheers - - Lars

phatwhaler posted 07-17-2006 05:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
lwallis,

FYI, 9X9 Bennett Tabs were a factory option on the 1996-1998 19/20 Outrage, which is the next closest similiar Whaler for comparison purposes.

phatwhaler out.

highanddry posted 07-18-2006 04:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
"Again I apologize that we do not have “specs” on every boat out there and do not have “professional procedures” written for specific boats. However I hope this is helpful and stand ready to supply answers to any specific questions you may have."

Thank you for the answers, that is more along the lines of what I initially expected--instead of saying you were not familiar with the boat. The Boston Whaler is not exactly obscure and the Outrage 190 is a current model and rather popular so yes, forgive me, I apologise, I expected you might have templates. Perhaps y'all should invest in CAD or Catia. I took a course in it--company paid---maybe when I retire from them you will give me a job doing exactly that--templating every boat currently manufactured----!! Maybe the manufacturers can provide that data to you via a CAD file. Maybe work up some install kits for popular boats.

I am not so sure moving the speed sensor to the other side is a smart thing and I note that my Humminbird install book shows preferences depending upon propeller rotation. Probably neither are a big deal. I am positive there is a way to mount your product. But why in your email response did you say to get the M80 and now you say the M120? Probably because that is what I asked about--so that would explain that.

Well, I spent the money for the tabs on a Humminbird and some other stuff so next time I get some spare cash I will consider those Bennet M120s again. I did not want to invest in something that was going to look home made and that was kinda the impression I got--I realize now wrongly--I should have asked more questions and maybe I would have eventually gotten what I needed.

Thanks for the info, truly, I will keep it in mind.

Tabman posted 07-18-2006 01:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tabman  Send Email to Tabman     
Good questions and observations.
Actually we have a very sizable investment in CAD. I use CAD files now when writing installation instruction for new products and the improvement in illustration is remarkable. We use CAD to communicate with builders as well as designing and modify products. We employ Computer Aided Manufacturing as well.

I will take you up on your offer to catalog all of the boat manufactures transoms and layouts for us, I know that it will keep anyone busy basically forever and a day, even if you just concentrate on the “popular” boats. One of the issues we run into when attempting to come up with a “stock” installation for any aftermarket application is that boat builders often “move things around” even within model years. If they change the vendor that supplies the scupper tru hulls it may impact the location on the transom, or they may make a slight engineering changes and we are not notified. Then of course when the recommended installation is attempted we run into problems! I have run into situations where the boat builder changed swim ladder suppliers and Tabs that fit nicely on one transom would not fit on the same boat, same model year!

Also, when owner’s install after market accessories, such as fish finder x-ducers, swim ladders etc. we cannot be sure what we need to be dealing with.

So as is the case with many things on boats, the installer will have to do a bit more research then as if they were purchasing a bolt on automotive accessory. It’s simply the nature of the beast. And I should add it makes it incumbent upon companies such as ourselves to provide more detailed information then what you received via your initial e-mail contact with us. I head up the Client services team at Bennett, and I will be using your example at our Thursday staff meeting so we may better handle inquires such as yours.

Good question regarding choosing the size Trim Tab for a particular application.

Choosing Trim Tabs is a bit like choosing horsepower for your boat. We make general recommendations and they serve us very well. If we went solely by the guidelines you would be right at the top size of the recommendations for M80 (8” x 10”) and right at the bottom of the M120 (10” x 12”). In this case going with the larger Trim Tab will give more range of performance. Sort of like getting the bigger horsepower motor that will fit on your boat will give you more power when you need it.

The larger Trim Tabs will allow you to plane at lower speeds, a valuable feature when running into a chop. They will also allow you to make athwartship corrections at lower speeds as well. Interestingly the larger Tabs will produce less drag then the smaller ones since they will need to be deflected to less of an angle to produce the same amount of lift as a small Tab that will need to be deflected to a greater angle.

Again I hope this is helpful. Let me know what other questions you may have.

highanddry posted 07-19-2006 04:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
Does anyone have actual pictures of the Boston Whaler FACTORY installation of Lenco tabs on the Outrage 190? That would answer our questions as to how they did it, where they moved the speed sensors, transducers, swim platform etc. Lenco or Bennet, both fine products and both would have to deal with the same issues of the Whaler foam filled hull and the myrid of scuppers and drains that are factory installed on self bailing Boston Whalers.
How does the factory do it?
Whalerider posted 07-19-2006 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerider  Send Email to Whalerider     
Your right about both Lenco and Bennett's being fine products. I have Bennetts on my flats boats and they have given me years of trouble free service. Due to the slightly more complex installation of the Bennetts (the pump) I choose Lenco's for my Nantucket. If you get the EDGE MOUNT Lenco tabs they will fit under the swim platform without any mods. Also by using the 9x12 tabs you will not get any interference with the hardware that Whaler adds to the transom. The installation is very easy, just install them the way Lenco instructions direct and you wont have any problems at all.

I can send pics of my install if anyone needs them, email me.

Mark

Whalerider posted 07-19-2006 08:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerider  Send Email to Whalerider     
I forgot to add.... The ladder on the swim platform still works fine. The 9x12 tabs are not in the way at all. My kids use the ladder all the time and never have come even close to the tabs, if it was remotely possible to stub a toe on the tabs they would have done it, guaranteed! If you choose the larger 12x12 tabs then you MAY have some problems the transducer and paddle wheel, I measured mine before ordering the Lencos and it was a very tight fit so I opted for the 9x12. As in my earlier post...The 9x12 EDGE MOUNT Lencos fit perfectly and provide satisfactory results. I also recommend the auto-retract/indicator switch…..well worth the extra money.
highanddry posted 07-19-2006 02:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
Whalerrider, how do we email you to get the pics?

Also, did you find they lowered your planing speeds and reduce bow rise any? Have they been worth the effort? Your thoughts?

Perry posted 07-19-2006 05:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
highanddry, click on the profile or mail icon next to a person's user name to find their e-mail address.

Mark, I e-mailed you for some pics.

Whalerider posted 07-19-2006 09:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerider  Send Email to Whalerider     
Yes they lowered my planning speed some. Bow rise is slightly less. They are not nearly as effective in that respect as they have been on my other boats. I don’t know if it’s the hull design or that the Nantucket needs larger tabs than the 9x12's. I suspect that larger tabs would have worked much better, but that would have required moving the transducer and paddle wheel....20/20 hindsight. What they really do is make the ride MUCH better in chop and balance the boat due to my many fat friends. The improvement in chop makes them worth it IMHO. The ride is 100% improved. I don’t think you will ever hear anyone say.... I wish I didn’t have tabs on my boat. I will never have any boat without tabs.

If less bow rise and lower planning speed is what you’re looking for then switch to the Powertech Offshore 4 blade prop (or similar). My bow rise is considerably less than with the stock Mirage and the boat runs much flatter. I lost only 2 mph on the top end, the hole shot is incredible.

If you’re looking for better ride in chop...its tabs, less bow rise...it’s the prop. Best of both worlds... both tabs and prop, of course. Neither is cheap, but my Nantucket was no bargain either.

Mark

Whalerider posted 07-19-2006 09:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerider  Send Email to Whalerider     
perry...sent pics
Kencvit posted 07-20-2006 01:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
Whalerider, could you please send me the pics .
I have been considering tabs as the benefits seem real to everyone who has added them.
I like the Lencos and am also interested in the trolling tabs they have. The motors on the tabs may be a problem with the swim platform/ladder .
I wonder if the new owner of TJ_190 `s nantucket follows this board. On a search I found that Tj had the (12 x 12E)
Lenco`s and was very pleased. Thanks, Ken

Whalerider posted 07-20-2006 08:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerider  Send Email to Whalerider     
Sent pics to everyone. Hope it help you make a decision.

The troll-n-tabs will be a big problem if you have the swim ladder. Lenco has a CAD drawing somewhere on their site, with measurements. Ain't no way.
I have read that there are reliability issues for some reason. Lots of negative remarks. That said...around here several guides use them...so must not be as bad as some say. I would do a search on http://www.thehulltruth.com or http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/ before I purchased.

Kencvit posted 07-20-2006 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
Thanks Whalerider for the pics and links.
I`ll have to do some further reading on the trolling tabs.
lwallis posted 07-21-2006 04:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for lwallis  Send Email to lwallis     
Whalerider: Could I get you to send the pics my way too. Appreciate it. - - Lars

larswallis@comcast.net

Yiddil posted 07-26-2006 11:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for Yiddil  Send Email to Yiddil     
Ill take a set of pics to please....Yiddil@verison.net thanks
lakeman posted 08-02-2006 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for lakeman  Send Email to lakeman     
I installed the Bennett M80 on my Dauntless 18,I wish I had the M120 but doubt that I would have enough room. it was an easy install, with a few minor issues of switches etc some my fault and some a gremlin. I could easily install Bennett tabs, however, if I had another model with less in side hull clearance and other one hand places, I would consider the Lenco tabs. The lenco are faster reacting tabs but in the long run, Bennett's/Tabman's personal help and service are legendary in the marine business so stick with Bennett if you can.

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.