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Author Topic:   190 Montauk Experience

Mudkap1 posted 11-12-2006 07:23 PM ET (US)
I am getting serious in moving up to a 190 Montauk. I am wondering if anyone has any in water experience with this boat that can help me. I am in the NE and won't be able to sea trial before Spring, yet Mercury has a winter engine warrenty (up to 7 years) on the 115HP. I may need to pull the trigger before Spring. I'll start with a few questions;
I often fish with 3 adults, evening cruises are 4 adults and 2 youngsters (I like that back seat over the live well option for this), and we will also tube and ski the kids (under 16) on this boat (2 adults, 2 kids at a time. Will the 115 provide a comfortable platform for this. Evening crusies and skiing/tubing are my questions.
Also, can a class 2 hitch be used, like the ones on the newer Ford Explorers?
I have a few more, but as this thread moves forward we can discuss more. Thanks in advance for your help!

Riverwhaler posted 11-12-2006 08:16 PM ET (US)
Mudcap1, I am still running on the Connecticut river here in Vermont if you want to see and feel what a Nantucket is like but don't come unless you realize you might want to own a 150 Honda after a ride. But seriously I would be happy to demo a Nantucket for you. I Live in Putney VT and we have access to a 20 mile long strech of navigable river.
allan@vtstudio.com
Mudkap1 posted 11-13-2006 09:13 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the feedback on your Nantucket. At this time I am looking for feedback on the new 190 Montauk. Enjoy the fall season!
scupman posted 11-13-2006 09:36 AM ET (US)
I have owned both a 19 Nantucket/Outrage and a 190 Montauk. Very different boats. For 80% of what you describe the Montauk is fine. It is not a great SKI boat however. I pulled my kids and several adults on tubes and kneeboards, but a little lacking on the power to pop a skiier up, especially if you have a load on board.
The 19 Outrage would be better from a power standpoint, but not as "friendly" a layout for the family I felt. They are different boats for different purposes really. I would say more towards serious Fishing? Then go Outrage 19. General use, the Montauk 19. As long as you go in to it with the understanding from the onset, that it is not a powerhouse, you will love it. Just don't expect it to do what it wasn't intended to do. The Montauk 190, with full fuel, livewell, and 2 adults + 2 kids, it does over 40 and planes in a reasonable amount of time. It also planed off with a distributed load of 6 Adults as a test.
Why don't you consider a 180 or 200 Dauntless? Plenty of power, and lots of seating. (Yes, I owned one of those too)

Inabanus posted 11-13-2006 07:56 PM ET (US)
Scupman,
I too am thinking of upgrading from a 150 Sport to the 190 Montauk. Can you describe to me your experiences in terms of how it handles in rougher weather conditions? I live in Rhode Island and would be spenind most of my time in the Narragansett Bay / Block Island Sound area where things can take a turn for the worst with little notice and steep chop is somewhat common. Thanks in advance! Any other general comments are appreciated as well!
highanddry posted 11-14-2006 05:10 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the feedback on your Nantucket. At this time I am looking for feedback on the new 190 Montauk. Enjoy the fall season!
I don't think he was trying to sell you a Nantucket, he was offering you a ride so you could have some comparison points whn you finally get to trial a Montauk 190. I thought it was a very friendly and kind jesture.
swist posted 11-14-2006 07:44 AM ET (US)
I looked at the 180 Dauntless when I bought my 170 Montauk (2004, the 190 was not available). It was a nice boat but *seriously* more expensive for 1' longer. I do believe the 190 Montauk is also cheaper by quite a bit.
Mudkap1 posted 11-14-2006 09:07 AM ET (US)
Scupman,
Thanks for the info. When you had six adults on your trial, did you use the option seat in the back over the live well. That looks like a cool option that can be useful for extra seating. Is it OK for kids right there, was it a good ride back there? Also, the Dauntless price is currently out of my range, so I was looking hard at the 190. With six adults, does the boat stayed planned out easily at slower speeds, ie, hitting some chop and keeping the ride comfortable w/o losing plane?
scupman posted 11-14-2006 09:20 AM ET (US)
Inabanus,
The difference betweea 190 and a 150 sport is really night and day. It is a very difficult thing to describe what the ride is like to you though. I personally thought it rode very similarly to the 18 Dauntless I had from a chop standpoint. Typical afternoon SW wind 10-15 mph, 2 foot chop. The 190 Outrage was pretty close to it as well, but I would have to give it the nod a little in the ride dept.
Power wise the 190 Montauk is adequate for general use, but it as never designed to be a ski boat. If you buy it expecting it to be a ski boat, you will likely be dissapointed. As far as tubing and kneeboarding goes, it is fine.
Tough to give a description of ride characteristics unless you have ridden similar boats in similar situations.
I would be happy to answer any specifics on any of the boats I have owned.

scupman posted 11-14-2006 09:42 AM ET (US)
In conditions that would warrant "planing" with a full load as you describe, I don't think it would fall off plane. You may have to run up the RPM's a bit more than usual, but since I personally never ran that exact scenario, so I am guessing. If you are in 2-4 foot CHOP like I typically see, I wouldn't be planing anyways. Likely I would be going slower. If it were me and a buddy and I wanted to let it rip, I could if that helps.
I did use the rear seat option, but ironically, eveyone who got in the boat seemed to immediately migrate to the 1/4 step pads. (A throw cushion just happens to fit there nicely)
Buckda posted 11-14-2006 12:08 PM ET (US)
Question:
Are you planning to tow with a newer Ford Explorer, and that is your reason for asking about the Class II Hitch that they have?
The hitch system on the Explorer (’02 and newer) is substantial. Even if it has the Class II receiver, I believe (not based on actual knowledge) that it is the same as the Class III system, just with a smaller receiver. I can’t see how the Class III system could be any beefier than what is on the truck.
The weak points for towing are going to be the drawbar (typically rated for 3,500 lbs) and the ball. Be sure to get a good ball mount. I recommend one with a 5,000 lb capacity.
The other serious concern is the tow capacity of the vehicle. The Ford Explorer can be rated up to around 7,000 lbs with the right drive train selection. But the ones that come “standard” with the class II hitch have a 3.5:1 rear end ratio versus the 3.73:1 ratio for the higher load rated vehicles. This is important because this ratio can either “help” your engine to pull a given load or it can make it more difficult for the vehicle to pull a given load, because it determines how many engine revolutions it takes to turn the drive axle one revolution. The higher the ratio, the easier it is for your vehicle to move the weight, but it does sacrifice your highway fuel economy slightly.
Also consider the GCVWR and not just the max tow capacity. Because of the increased weight of the 4X4 system, the GCVWR is reduced for the 4X4 version of the vehicle. The GCVWR is important because it is a more accurate measure of what the vehicle is rated to tow. It combines the weight of both the tow vehicle and the trailer. To arrive at your GCVWR, you must calculate the curb weight of the tow vehicle (in the owners manual), and the weight of persons and gear you will have in the tow vehicle. Take that number and add the weight of the trailer, the boat, the motor and all your gear that is in the boat (batteries, fuel, etc).
All of this is important information to consider when buying a tow vehicle for a given boat.
All that said, remember: the possibility of two- or even four-footitis exists. When I purchased my 2002 Ford Explorer V6 four years ago, I owned a 15’ Sport, so I opted for the Class II hitch and 3.5:1 rear gear ratio. 130,000 miles later, I’ve been towing an 18’ Outrage with tandem axle trailer probably something along the lines of 15,000 miles (in addition to the 10,000 miles or so that I towed the 15’ Sport). The transmission is holding together (knock on teak) but I am definitely trading up to a vehicle that has a better tow capacity and GCVWR when this one starts to show signs of being unreliable.
I’ve taken some precautionary measures to ensure a little more margin of reliability - aggressive transmission change schedule; aggressive rear differential change schedule and aggressive oil changes when towing. If I were to do it over again, I’d add an auxiliary transmission oil cooler, however I find it difficult to bring myself to adding this to a vehicle that is likely to be around for only another year.
The motor works very hard in hilly terrain.
Given the increased weight of the 190 Montauk (1,900 lbs dry) vs the 18’ Outrage (1,200 lbs dry), I would recommend against a Ford Explorer with the small hitch.
Inabanus posted 11-14-2006 06:32 PM ET (US)
Scupman,
Thanks for the info. I certainly realize that there is a huge difference between the 150 and 190. In terms of ride, I honestly have been very spoiled in the past, having owned a 31 Bertram. My Father has owned many boats also, including a 25 Bertram and a 26 Blackwatch, both of which are incredible sea boats. I am confident that the 190 Montauk will be a good all around boat and may be asking you more specific questions in the near future. Thanks again.
Mudkap1 posted 11-14-2006 06:56 PM ET (US)
My Explorer is a 2005 V6 with the std hitch package. It states max trailering 3500lbs and max tongue weight is 350lbs. My situation is that I only live 1 mile from the ramp, but 2 times per year I will trailer the boat back to the dealership (2 hour trip 90 miles)for winterization and some local fishing. I am concerned more so about the hitch, then the towing capacity in this environment. Will the smaller class 2 receiver be ok to handle this boat? Is their a chance that the trailer pop off the ball? I am not sure if the trailer is a class 2 or 3, or even if that makes a difference. any input is much appreciated!
Mudkap1 posted 11-14-2006 06:58 PM ET (US)
Clarification,
My 2005 Explorer has the STD Class 2 Small Hitch currently. Thank you.
Buckda posted 11-14-2006 07:03 PM ET (US)
As I said - I've towed something along the lines of 10,000 miles on my class II hitch (18' Outrage, tandem axle trailer).
You should have no problems for your stated use. Consider trailer brakes though, when you buy the boat.
Dave
Buckda posted 11-14-2006 07:06 PM ET (US)
The trailer will not jump off the ball if the ball is matched to the trailer. Typically, you will use a 2 inch ball. I suggest getting the one rated for 5,000 lbs (a little more expensive) and a draw bar with little (3" or less) or no drop. You will not need much drop on the Explorer unless you have small tires (less than 13 inch diameter) on the trailer.
Translation: You should not have any problems at all.
wyeisland posted 11-15-2006 06:57 AM ET (US)
If you go with the Nantucket be sure to get the max power. You will never be sorry especially water skiing. On evening cruises it is also better to have the engine loafing at low RPM; less noise.
For families there is no better boat that the Dauntess. I have a 20 everyone loves it. Seating matters, especially as we all get older. In particular my wife loves driving the boat and mom (age 72) loves having a hand hold at every seat.
Mudkap1 posted 11-16-2006 12:03 AM ET (US)
I may have the opportunity to put the 190 into my garage, I would prefer too. My opening is 8'6" height. Is that going to work for the height of the 190? Thanks.
highanddry posted 11-16-2006 04:16 AM ET (US)
I store my Nantucket in my garage for winter this year. The door is 8 feet and a few inches. I removed the windshield, I took the bolts loose from the front attach points for the windshield grab rail and loosened the rear ones. I rotated the grab rail to the aft. I then let almost all of the air out of the tires. Once the stern was in I then dropped the front of the trailer to the ground to get about an inch of clearence over the top of the bare console. I turned the front castor wheel up and set the tongue in the bucket of my Kubota B2400 tractor. It had the needed muscle to roll the trailer with hardly any air in the tires. Once under the door I aired the tires up, reinstalled everything and lifted the tongue high enough to set it back on the front wheel. Took about an hour.
I could have put it in my shop but the shop is full of important stuff.
Mudkap1 posted 11-16-2006 08:18 AM ET (US)
I would like to keep the 190 Montauk in my garage. My opening is 8'6" height. Does anyone have a measurement of the new 190 to determine if I have enough height? Thanks.

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Author	Topic: 190 Montauk Experience
Mudkap1	posted 11-12-2006 07:23 PM ET (US) I am getting serious in moving up to a 190 Montauk. I am wondering if anyone has any in water experience with this boat that can help me. I am in the NE and won't be able to sea trial before Spring, yet Mercury has a winter engine warrenty (up to 7 years) on the 115HP. I may need to pull the trigger before Spring. I'll start with a few questions; I often fish with 3 adults, evening cruises are 4 adults and 2 youngsters (I like that back seat over the live well option for this), and we will also tube and ski the kids (under 16) on this boat (2 adults, 2 kids at a time. Will the 115 provide a comfortable platform for this. Evening crusies and skiing/tubing are my questions. Also, can a class 2 hitch be used, like the ones on the newer Ford Explorers? I have a few more, but as this thread moves forward we can discuss more. Thanks in advance for your help!
Riverwhaler	posted 11-12-2006 08:16 PM ET (US) Mudcap1, I am still running on the Connecticut river here in Vermont if you want to see and feel what a Nantucket is like but don't come unless you realize you might want to own a 150 Honda after a ride. But seriously I would be happy to demo a Nantucket for you. I Live in Putney VT and we have access to a 20 mile long strech of navigable river. allan@vtstudio.com
Mudkap1	posted 11-13-2006 09:13 AM ET (US) Thanks for the feedback on your Nantucket. At this time I am looking for feedback on the new 190 Montauk. Enjoy the fall season!
scupman	posted 11-13-2006 09:36 AM ET (US) I have owned both a 19 Nantucket/Outrage and a 190 Montauk. Very different boats. For 80% of what you describe the Montauk is fine. It is not a great SKI boat however. I pulled my kids and several adults on tubes and kneeboards, but a little lacking on the power to pop a skiier up, especially if you have a load on board. The 19 Outrage would be better from a power standpoint, but not as "friendly" a layout for the family I felt. They are different boats for different purposes really. I would say more towards serious Fishing? Then go Outrage 19. General use, the Montauk 19. As long as you go in to it with the understanding from the onset, that it is not a powerhouse, you will love it. Just don't expect it to do what it wasn't intended to do. The Montauk 190, with full fuel, livewell, and 2 adults + 2 kids, it does over 40 and planes in a reasonable amount of time. It also planed off with a distributed load of 6 Adults as a test. Why don't you consider a 180 or 200 Dauntless? Plenty of power, and lots of seating. (Yes, I owned one of those too)
Inabanus	posted 11-13-2006 07:56 PM ET (US) Scupman, I too am thinking of upgrading from a 150 Sport to the 190 Montauk. Can you describe to me your experiences in terms of how it handles in rougher weather conditions? I live in Rhode Island and would be spenind most of my time in the Narragansett Bay / Block Island Sound area where things can take a turn for the worst with little notice and steep chop is somewhat common. Thanks in advance! Any other general comments are appreciated as well!
highanddry	posted 11-14-2006 05:10 AM ET (US) Thanks for the feedback on your Nantucket. At this time I am looking for feedback on the new 190 Montauk. Enjoy the fall season! I don't think he was trying to sell you a Nantucket, he was offering you a ride so you could have some comparison points whn you finally get to trial a Montauk 190. I thought it was a very friendly and kind jesture.
swist	posted 11-14-2006 07:44 AM ET (US) I looked at the 180 Dauntless when I bought my 170 Montauk (2004, the 190 was not available). It was a nice boat but seriously more expensive for 1' longer. I do believe the 190 Montauk is also cheaper by quite a bit.
Mudkap1	posted 11-14-2006 09:07 AM ET (US) Scupman, Thanks for the info. When you had six adults on your trial, did you use the option seat in the back over the live well. That looks like a cool option that can be useful for extra seating. Is it OK for kids right there, was it a good ride back there? Also, the Dauntless price is currently out of my range, so I was looking hard at the 190. With six adults, does the boat stayed planned out easily at slower speeds, ie, hitting some chop and keeping the ride comfortable w/o losing plane?
scupman	posted 11-14-2006 09:20 AM ET (US) Inabanus, The difference betweea 190 and a 150 sport is really night and day. It is a very difficult thing to describe what the ride is like to you though. I personally thought it rode very similarly to the 18 Dauntless I had from a chop standpoint. Typical afternoon SW wind 10-15 mph, 2 foot chop. The 190 Outrage was pretty close to it as well, but I would have to give it the nod a little in the ride dept. Power wise the 190 Montauk is adequate for general use, but it as never designed to be a ski boat. If you buy it expecting it to be a ski boat, you will likely be dissapointed. As far as tubing and kneeboarding goes, it is fine. Tough to give a description of ride characteristics unless you have ridden similar boats in similar situations. I would be happy to answer any specifics on any of the boats I have owned.
scupman	posted 11-14-2006 09:42 AM ET (US) In conditions that would warrant "planing" with a full load as you describe, I don't think it would fall off plane. You may have to run up the RPM's a bit more than usual, but since I personally never ran that exact scenario, so I am guessing. If you are in 2-4 foot CHOP like I typically see, I wouldn't be planing anyways. Likely I would be going slower. If it were me and a buddy and I wanted to let it rip, I could if that helps. I did use the rear seat option, but ironically, eveyone who got in the boat seemed to immediately migrate to the 1/4 step pads. (A throw cushion just happens to fit there nicely)
Buckda	posted 11-14-2006 12:08 PM ET (US) Question: Are you planning to tow with a newer Ford Explorer, and that is your reason for asking about the Class II Hitch that they have? The hitch system on the Explorer (’02 and newer) is substantial. Even if it has the Class II receiver, I believe (not based on actual knowledge) that it is the same as the Class III system, just with a smaller receiver. I can’t see how the Class III system could be any beefier than what is on the truck. The weak points for towing are going to be the drawbar (typically rated for 3,500 lbs) and the ball. Be sure to get a good ball mount. I recommend one with a 5,000 lb capacity. The other serious concern is the tow capacity of the vehicle. The Ford Explorer can be rated up to around 7,000 lbs with the right drive train selection. But the ones that come “standard” with the class II hitch have a 3.5:1 rear end ratio versus the 3.73:1 ratio for the higher load rated vehicles. This is important because this ratio can either “help” your engine to pull a given load or it can make it more difficult for the vehicle to pull a given load, because it determines how many engine revolutions it takes to turn the drive axle one revolution. The higher the ratio, the easier it is for your vehicle to move the weight, but it does sacrifice your highway fuel economy slightly. Also consider the GCVWR and not just the max tow capacity. Because of the increased weight of the 4X4 system, the GCVWR is reduced for the 4X4 version of the vehicle. The GCVWR is important because it is a more accurate measure of what the vehicle is rated to tow. It combines the weight of both the tow vehicle and the trailer. To arrive at your GCVWR, you must calculate the curb weight of the tow vehicle (in the owners manual), and the weight of persons and gear you will have in the tow vehicle. Take that number and add the weight of the trailer, the boat, the motor and all your gear that is in the boat (batteries, fuel, etc). All of this is important information to consider when buying a tow vehicle for a given boat. All that said, remember: the possibility of two- or even four-footitis exists. When I purchased my 2002 Ford Explorer V6 four years ago, I owned a 15’ Sport, so I opted for the Class II hitch and 3.5:1 rear gear ratio. 130,000 miles later, I’ve been towing an 18’ Outrage with tandem axle trailer probably something along the lines of 15,000 miles (in addition to the 10,000 miles or so that I towed the 15’ Sport). The transmission is holding together (knock on teak) but I am definitely trading up to a vehicle that has a better tow capacity and GCVWR when this one starts to show signs of being unreliable. I’ve taken some precautionary measures to ensure a little more margin of reliability - aggressive transmission change schedule; aggressive rear differential change schedule and aggressive oil changes when towing. If I were to do it over again, I’d add an auxiliary transmission oil cooler, however I find it difficult to bring myself to adding this to a vehicle that is likely to be around for only another year. The motor works very hard in hilly terrain. Given the increased weight of the 190 Montauk (1,900 lbs dry) vs the 18’ Outrage (1,200 lbs dry), I would recommend against a Ford Explorer with the small hitch.
Inabanus	posted 11-14-2006 06:32 PM ET (US) Scupman, Thanks for the info. I certainly realize that there is a huge difference between the 150 and 190. In terms of ride, I honestly have been very spoiled in the past, having owned a 31 Bertram. My Father has owned many boats also, including a 25 Bertram and a 26 Blackwatch, both of which are incredible sea boats. I am confident that the 190 Montauk will be a good all around boat and may be asking you more specific questions in the near future. Thanks again.
Mudkap1	posted 11-14-2006 06:56 PM ET (US) My Explorer is a 2005 V6 with the std hitch package. It states max trailering 3500lbs and max tongue weight is 350lbs. My situation is that I only live 1 mile from the ramp, but 2 times per year I will trailer the boat back to the dealership (2 hour trip 90 miles)for winterization and some local fishing. I am concerned more so about the hitch, then the towing capacity in this environment. Will the smaller class 2 receiver be ok to handle this boat? Is their a chance that the trailer pop off the ball? I am not sure if the trailer is a class 2 or 3, or even if that makes a difference. any input is much appreciated!
Mudkap1	posted 11-14-2006 06:58 PM ET (US) Clarification, My 2005 Explorer has the STD Class 2 Small Hitch currently. Thank you.
Buckda	posted 11-14-2006 07:03 PM ET (US) As I said - I've towed something along the lines of 10,000 miles on my class II hitch (18' Outrage, tandem axle trailer). You should have no problems for your stated use. Consider trailer brakes though, when you buy the boat. Dave
Buckda	posted 11-14-2006 07:06 PM ET (US) The trailer will not jump off the ball if the ball is matched to the trailer. Typically, you will use a 2 inch ball. I suggest getting the one rated for 5,000 lbs (a little more expensive) and a draw bar with little (3" or less) or no drop. You will not need much drop on the Explorer unless you have small tires (less than 13 inch diameter) on the trailer. Translation: You should not have any problems at all.
wyeisland	posted 11-15-2006 06:57 AM ET (US) If you go with the Nantucket be sure to get the max power. You will never be sorry especially water skiing. On evening cruises it is also better to have the engine loafing at low RPM; less noise. For families there is no better boat that the Dauntess. I have a 20 everyone loves it. Seating matters, especially as we all get older. In particular my wife loves driving the boat and mom (age 72) loves having a hand hold at every seat.
Mudkap1	posted 11-16-2006 12:03 AM ET (US) I may have the opportunity to put the 190 into my garage, I would prefer too. My opening is 8'6" height. Is that going to work for the height of the 190? Thanks.
highanddry	posted 11-16-2006 04:16 AM ET (US) I store my Nantucket in my garage for winter this year. The door is 8 feet and a few inches. I removed the windshield, I took the bolts loose from the front attach points for the windshield grab rail and loosened the rear ones. I rotated the grab rail to the aft. I then let almost all of the air out of the tires. Once the stern was in I then dropped the front of the trailer to the ground to get about an inch of clearence over the top of the bare console. I turned the front castor wheel up and set the tongue in the bucket of my Kubota B2400 tractor. It had the needed muscle to roll the trailer with hardly any air in the tires. Once under the door I aired the tires up, reinstalled everything and lifted the tongue high enough to set it back on the front wheel. Took about an hour. I could have put it in my shop but the shop is full of important stuff.
Mudkap1	posted 11-16-2006 08:18 AM ET (US) I would like to keep the 190 Montauk in my garage. My opening is 8'6" height. Does anyone have a measurement of the new 190 to determine if I have enough height? Thanks.