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Author Topic:   Are new whalers underpowered?

JerryV posted 01-18-2007 09:11 PM ET (US)
I love whalers! But I feel most of them are under powered. I wonder why? They are getting heavier, possibly stronger, so why not add more power.
some examples what I think they should be like:
Boat Max power
150 sport/Montauk 75hp
170 Montauk 115hp
190 Montauk 150hp
190 outrage 175/200hp
210 outrage 250hp
240 outrage 400hp
270 outrage 500hp
To name a few. The older ones seem to handle more. I know motors are getting heavier but the should design to handle the power. If someone wants to 50+ mph on these very strong boats they should have the option to power them that way.
Any comments?
Jerry V
jsgrise posted 01-18-2007 09:49 PM ET (US)
I know what you are talking about because I use to have a 35HP(out of 50) on a 13' Dauntless and I wasn't able to make it planewith 3 passenger. I've always believe that if you want to enjoy the most out of your Whaler, you any choice but to put the max HP on your transom. But on my 210 Outrage, we have a 200 Optimax and trust me, it's really enough! Lots of torque! So I gues it always depend on your ratio.
Seb
podosky posted 01-18-2007 10:08 PM ET (US)
Our 180 Dauntless has a 150 Verado and is capable of 46 mph. It jumps on plane and is anything but underpowered.
highanddry posted 01-19-2007 05:14 AM ET (US)
It is a weight issue more than horsepower, engines now are much heavier on average it seems and furthermore efficiency and practicality dictate it. Most people would rarely run 50 plus MPH but most do enjoy fuel economy.
Our Nantucket with 150 Opti is NOT underpowered though I agree it could easily be rated for 175 or even 200 horses paying attention to weight.
H&D
JerryV posted 01-19-2007 12:19 PM ET (US)
Maybe underpowered is not the correct word. But I would love to have the option to power a nantucket/outrage with a 200hp motor. The verado 175 is the same as the 150, why is BW not allowing it. People are correct in saying not many drive their boats at 50+ mph but once again its the option that I wish we had with these boats. Has anyone looked at some of these small bass boats that are very light when compared to whalers that are rated at 250/300 hp. I don't think they are built better and the current motors offered on them are not lighter. The old 15' sport was able to handle 70hp and do 45+ mph. That was fun when it was calm out. The new 15 sport is rated at 60 hp and is 300# to 400# heavier and won't break 40 mph. That boat should be rated for at least 75 hp. A 17 montauk should be rated for a 115 hp. It is same weight as the 90 hp 4 stroke. Ever see a 255 conquest in the water witha single outboard. It is nose heavy. The chins along the transom stick out of the water. I can go on.
Do you think there maybe a liability issue that BW is afraid of, by allowing more power for their boats? You think some big wig attorney that works for Brunswick scared the executives since todays public sues for a broken to nail? Maybe they can rate their boats min hp, max hp, recommended hp. If some one wants the power they can have it.
Finally why have a small motor at 3/4 throttle to cruise when a big motor can produce the same speed with less stress and possible better fuel economy and longevity. I hope I clarified myself and this makes sense.
poker13 posted 01-19-2007 02:12 PM ET (US)
Are the new Whalers underpowered? Absolutely. Why? I wish BW would tell us.
highanddry posted 01-19-2007 02:30 PM ET (US)
If and when I purchase a new engine for my Nantucket years from now, since most 175 orse engines are built on the same block and therefore way the same as the 150s and 130s then I will be getting the 175. If the 200 at that time is within weight acceptable range (by use and not data plate) then it will be a 200.

If I could get hold of an Allison 250 (hundreds and hundreds of effortless shaft horsepower) maybe just stick that on there.
H&D
highanddry posted 01-19-2007 02:38 PM ET (US)
There is one other thing, we have a 135 Johnson from circa 1973. It still runs just fine many rebuilds latter. This engine however is not actually 135 horsepower. I imagine it is more equivilnet to a 100 horse engine oftoday. They used to rate power at peak instantaneous power at the engine crankshaft. Now they rate power at the prop shaft at average sustainable power. Todays engine actually make the power they claim at the prop where it counts. My Opti 150 pushes our Nantucket easily to 46 MPH, if I were to pull that 135 Johnson and install it on the Nantucket, a grat experiment, I bet it would barely hit 35 if that because, like I said, I seriously doubt it ever made much more than 100 prop shaft horsepower on it's best day.
Modern Whalers are heavier only because they are larger, deeper, wider, stronger. The reason all of these people think their older/classic Whalers are water logged is because they have this factory brochure that lists a fantasy weight and then years down the road they actually weigh their boat and it does not match the brochure weightp-oh no--water logged--nah. It NEVER did even when new. Plus all the added equipment, repairs etc.
H&D
JerryV posted 01-19-2007 03:02 PM ET (US)
Well put Highanddry. Thats what I thought. The more power options and power the better. I undoubtedly know these boats can handle it.
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 01-20-2007 12:21 PM ET (US)
Except for the 130(50hp would be perfect on this hull),all the legend series boats need another 30-40hp.I talked to the reps last year at the Miami boat show and asked them why the newer Whalers were a little shy on the Hp and thier answer was for safety reasons.
highanddry posted 01-20-2007 01:57 PM ET (US)
That is one area Brunswick could get out of the way of BW management. They advertize to much safety and to little GO. The gloassy adv. of children lying asleep on the front cushion just does not sell boats. They need to return to the rugged, unsinkable maritime machine promotions and skip the kiddies sleeping on the 50,000 dollar front cushion.
Put bigger engines on them, throw the hammer down, if the kids and dogs blow out the back, oh well, not like there is a shortage of people about these days.
OBTW, the Legend Series no longer exists, not for several years.
H&D
Marsh posted 01-20-2007 07:34 PM ET (US)
I don't think it's a matter of power. It's a matter of hull design. I would NOT want to regularly take my 170 Montauk above 45 mph or so...it handles too poorly.
If you want to operate your boat at speeds above 45 or so, you are probably better off buying something besides a Whaler...like a bass boat.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Marsh
bsmotril posted 01-20-2007 07:59 PM ET (US)
From discussions I had with a Whaler factory rep at a TX boat show, I believe we'll soon have a 135 HP option for the Montauk 190.
BillS
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 01-21-2007 08:31 PM ET (US)
I have had my 15 above 50 mph,it handeled fine.While it's no high performance hull design,to say it's unsafe over 45 mph is inaccurate.
JerryV posted 01-22-2007 10:59 AM ET (US)
Bob Kemmler what kind of motor are you running on the 15? Is it the new 15 sport/montauk?
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 01-22-2007 03:06 PM ET (US)
90 Mercury carbed 2 stroke on the older 15 hull.Would probably takea little bit more power on the newer 150 hull to do that,but it's also wider and may even handle the extra power better.
Alex K posted 01-23-2007 05:34 AM ET (US)
Indeed hard to understand why the new 150 which is almost the size and weight of an old Montauk is rated for only 60HP.
Alex
KSFLOORCOVERING posted 01-25-2007 10:49 PM ET (US)
I have a 15 Sport with a Yamaha 130hp and it flies. I have had it up to 75 mph on the highway. Just kidding.
Really I have a 15 Sport with a 70 and a 23 Outrage with twin 150's and neither will brake the 50 mph mark. Sport runs 46 Mph and Outrage 48 Mph. It would be nice to be able to run at least 50 Mph when ever I wanted to. Hell I am getting tired of being passed by jet skis, Fountains, bass boats, DNR, Cigerette boats, and many others.
dmeswi posted 01-26-2007 10:41 PM ET (US)
I have a 220 Dauntless with a 225 Verado. At WOT it will go 50 MPH. It does not seem to be underpowered at all.
It jumps onto plane easily and I generally cruise at about 25 to 30 MPH.
Dennis

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Author	Topic: Are new whalers underpowered?
JerryV	posted 01-18-2007 09:11 PM ET (US) I love whalers! But I feel most of them are under powered. I wonder why? They are getting heavier, possibly stronger, so why not add more power. some examples what I think they should be like: Boat Max power 150 sport/Montauk 75hp 170 Montauk 115hp 190 Montauk 150hp 190 outrage 175/200hp 210 outrage 250hp 240 outrage 400hp 270 outrage 500hp To name a few. The older ones seem to handle more. I know motors are getting heavier but the should design to handle the power. If someone wants to 50+ mph on these very strong boats they should have the option to power them that way. Any comments? Jerry V
jsgrise	posted 01-18-2007 09:49 PM ET (US) I know what you are talking about because I use to have a 35HP(out of 50) on a 13' Dauntless and I wasn't able to make it planewith 3 passenger. I've always believe that if you want to enjoy the most out of your Whaler, you any choice but to put the max HP on your transom. But on my 210 Outrage, we have a 200 Optimax and trust me, it's really enough! Lots of torque! So I gues it always depend on your ratio. Seb
podosky	posted 01-18-2007 10:08 PM ET (US) Our 180 Dauntless has a 150 Verado and is capable of 46 mph. It jumps on plane and is anything but underpowered.
highanddry	posted 01-19-2007 05:14 AM ET (US) It is a weight issue more than horsepower, engines now are much heavier on average it seems and furthermore efficiency and practicality dictate it. Most people would rarely run 50 plus MPH but most do enjoy fuel economy. Our Nantucket with 150 Opti is NOT underpowered though I agree it could easily be rated for 175 or even 200 horses paying attention to weight. H&D
JerryV	posted 01-19-2007 12:19 PM ET (US) Maybe underpowered is not the correct word. But I would love to have the option to power a nantucket/outrage with a 200hp motor. The verado 175 is the same as the 150, why is BW not allowing it. People are correct in saying not many drive their boats at 50+ mph but once again its the option that I wish we had with these boats. Has anyone looked at some of these small bass boats that are very light when compared to whalers that are rated at 250/300 hp. I don't think they are built better and the current motors offered on them are not lighter. The old 15' sport was able to handle 70hp and do 45+ mph. That was fun when it was calm out. The new 15 sport is rated at 60 hp and is 300# to 400# heavier and won't break 40 mph. That boat should be rated for at least 75 hp. A 17 montauk should be rated for a 115 hp. It is same weight as the 90 hp 4 stroke. Ever see a 255 conquest in the water witha single outboard. It is nose heavy. The chins along the transom stick out of the water. I can go on. Do you think there maybe a liability issue that BW is afraid of, by allowing more power for their boats? You think some big wig attorney that works for Brunswick scared the executives since todays public sues for a broken to nail? Maybe they can rate their boats min hp, max hp, recommended hp. If some one wants the power they can have it. Finally why have a small motor at 3/4 throttle to cruise when a big motor can produce the same speed with less stress and possible better fuel economy and longevity. I hope I clarified myself and this makes sense.
poker13	posted 01-19-2007 02:12 PM ET (US) Are the new Whalers underpowered? Absolutely. Why? I wish BW would tell us.
highanddry	posted 01-19-2007 02:30 PM ET (US) If and when I purchase a new engine for my Nantucket years from now, since most 175 orse engines are built on the same block and therefore way the same as the 150s and 130s then I will be getting the 175. If the 200 at that time is within weight acceptable range (by use and not data plate) then it will be a 200. If I could get hold of an Allison 250 (hundreds and hundreds of effortless shaft horsepower) maybe just stick that on there. H&D
highanddry	posted 01-19-2007 02:38 PM ET (US) There is one other thing, we have a 135 Johnson from circa 1973. It still runs just fine many rebuilds latter. This engine however is not actually 135 horsepower. I imagine it is more equivilnet to a 100 horse engine oftoday. They used to rate power at peak instantaneous power at the engine crankshaft. Now they rate power at the prop shaft at average sustainable power. Todays engine actually make the power they claim at the prop where it counts. My Opti 150 pushes our Nantucket easily to 46 MPH, if I were to pull that 135 Johnson and install it on the Nantucket, a grat experiment, I bet it would barely hit 35 if that because, like I said, I seriously doubt it ever made much more than 100 prop shaft horsepower on it's best day. Modern Whalers are heavier only because they are larger, deeper, wider, stronger. The reason all of these people think their older/classic Whalers are water logged is because they have this factory brochure that lists a fantasy weight and then years down the road they actually weigh their boat and it does not match the brochure weightp-oh no--water logged--nah. It NEVER did even when new. Plus all the added equipment, repairs etc. H&D
JerryV	posted 01-19-2007 03:02 PM ET (US) Well put Highanddry. Thats what I thought. The more power options and power the better. I undoubtedly know these boats can handle it.
BOB KEMMLER JR	posted 01-20-2007 12:21 PM ET (US) Except for the 130(50hp would be perfect on this hull),all the legend series boats need another 30-40hp.I talked to the reps last year at the Miami boat show and asked them why the newer Whalers were a little shy on the Hp and thier answer was for safety reasons.
highanddry	posted 01-20-2007 01:57 PM ET (US) That is one area Brunswick could get out of the way of BW management. They advertize to much safety and to little GO. The gloassy adv. of children lying asleep on the front cushion just does not sell boats. They need to return to the rugged, unsinkable maritime machine promotions and skip the kiddies sleeping on the 50,000 dollar front cushion. Put bigger engines on them, throw the hammer down, if the kids and dogs blow out the back, oh well, not like there is a shortage of people about these days. OBTW, the Legend Series no longer exists, not for several years. H&D
Marsh	posted 01-20-2007 07:34 PM ET (US) I don't think it's a matter of power. It's a matter of hull design. I would NOT want to regularly take my 170 Montauk above 45 mph or so...it handles too poorly. If you want to operate your boat at speeds above 45 or so, you are probably better off buying something besides a Whaler...like a bass boat. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. Marsh
bsmotril	posted 01-20-2007 07:59 PM ET (US) From discussions I had with a Whaler factory rep at a TX boat show, I believe we'll soon have a 135 HP option for the Montauk 190. BillS
BOB KEMMLER JR	posted 01-21-2007 08:31 PM ET (US) I have had my 15 above 50 mph,it handeled fine.While it's no high performance hull design,to say it's unsafe over 45 mph is inaccurate.
JerryV	posted 01-22-2007 10:59 AM ET (US) Bob Kemmler what kind of motor are you running on the 15? Is it the new 15 sport/montauk?
BOB KEMMLER JR	posted 01-22-2007 03:06 PM ET (US) 90 Mercury carbed 2 stroke on the older 15 hull.Would probably takea little bit more power on the newer 150 hull to do that,but it's also wider and may even handle the extra power better.
Alex K	posted 01-23-2007 05:34 AM ET (US) Indeed hard to understand why the new 150 which is almost the size and weight of an old Montauk is rated for only 60HP. Alex
KSFLOORCOVERING	posted 01-25-2007 10:49 PM ET (US) I have a 15 Sport with a Yamaha 130hp and it flies. I have had it up to 75 mph on the highway. Just kidding. Really I have a 15 Sport with a 70 and a 23 Outrage with twin 150's and neither will brake the 50 mph mark. Sport runs 46 Mph and Outrage 48 Mph. It would be nice to be able to run at least 50 Mph when ever I wanted to. Hell I am getting tired of being passed by jet skis, Fountains, bass boats, DNR, Cigerette boats, and many others.
dmeswi	posted 01-26-2007 10:41 PM ET (US) I have a 220 Dauntless with a 225 Verado. At WOT it will go 50 MPH. It does not seem to be underpowered at all. It jumps onto plane easily and I generally cruise at about 25 to 30 MPH. Dennis