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Boat Show Rumor: 34-Foot Conquest
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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Boat Show Rumor: 34-Foot Conquest
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| Author | Topic: Boat Show Rumor: 34-Foot Conquest |
| henryk |
posted 01-20-2007 11:33 PM ET (US)  
I just got back from the Chicago Boat Show. My BW dealer told me that BW is making a new 34 footer. It should be a 2008 model. It seems it will be a Conquest cabin style boat with triple outboards. I feel a cabin boat this size should be made with inboards, and not outboards.
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| erik selis |
posted 01-21-2007 03:21 AM ET (US)
I agree about the inboard power. They should also offer a diesel option. Erik |
| jimh |
posted 01-21-2007 10:16 AM ET (US)
There is a natural conceit in any boat builder (and boat designer) that tends to inspire the building of bigger boats. This tendency is proportional to the amount of time a builder has been making boats. Boston Whaler is approaching its 50-th year of boat building, so the tendency to expand into larger boats is maturing. Boston Whaler has tried building several larger boats over the years using the Unibond hull technique and combining it with inboard engines and conventional propeller shaft drives. The boats that resulted have not been remarkable. They did not sell particularly well, and their performance was not distinctive from the many other boats of this type being produced by other builders. Indeed, some would say that the performance was less than remarkable on some models. The experience of Boston Whaler is mainly in outboard powered boats, and in general the results with smaller boats and outboard power have been remarkable. By using outboard power on a larger boat, Boston Whaler will be sticking to familiar territory, it will be doing something it knows how to do well. Currently there is much greater acceptance of outboard power on a larger boat than in the past. It has become common to see boats over 30-feet powered with three or four outboard motors. By producing a 34-foot boat with outboard power, Boston Whaler will be joining a select crowd of high-performance offshore boats of similar design. A 34-foot boat from Boston Whaler will be the perfect transom on which to sell three Verado outboard motors. This makes for good corporate strategy and synergy. The Verado motor is very well suited for this application. The electrically assisted hydraulic steering system is already integral to the Verado. Verado has an electronic throttle and shift with specialized features to control a third or fourth engine with only two sets of throttle and shift levers--again, perfect for this application. Finally, a 34-foot boat provides a tier of product to which dealers can up-sell their existing customers while still retaining them as Boston Whaler owners. The concept of providing a customer with a consistent path to upgrade to a bigger boat within the product line has been the strategy of SEA RAY boats, where it has been very successful. The Boston Whaler owner with the desire for a larger, more expensive Boston Whaler will now have a boat to buy. |
| Mambo Minnow |
posted 01-21-2007 11:07 AM ET (US)
Why not a 34 foot outrage? Whaler already has two 32 foot models. Concur with JimH on Brunswick looking for more platforms on which to triple hang Verados. FEB 2007 Saltwater Sportsman has a Miami Boat Show preview that announces an Edgewater 388 Center Console with three outboard option. Clearly, Fountain has made a large market impact that the other builders feel compelled to follow. Since Daugherty has moved on, it must be another architect's design. The Edgewater has a three notch keel running surface. From what I have read here in the past, the notched keel was a negative feature on the Conquest 295. |
| handn |
posted 01-21-2007 11:31 AM ET (US)
The trend in new boats under 40 feet is to use outboard power rather than inboards because outboards are cheaper, lighter, easier and less expensive to service. Assuming a 2000 hour life for a modern 4-stroke outboard, the average boat owner will not use his boat often enough to wear out the engines and would never get back the premium he pays for his diesel powered boat even factoring in fuel cost savings. In fact some marine diesels are of the automotive type and offer little if any durability advantage over outboards. A 34 Conquest would probably offer acceptable performance with two 275 hp Verados, leaving the triple engine option available for performance buyers. Boston Whaler has never done well with larger boats; perhaps this will change with the 34 Conquest. The 305 Conquest has been a hit. Perhaps the reason BW is considering a 34 is because demand for the 305 has slowed freeing factory capacity to build a bigger boat. |
| kglinz |
posted 01-21-2007 11:34 AM ET (US)
I sure hope that this is just a rumor. If the V-8 Yamaha stories are true, and they probably are, why would anyone buy a triple Verado Boston Whaler over a twin engine Pursuit or Grady, if they had similar performance. |
| bluewaterpirate |
posted 01-21-2007 04:08 PM ET (US)
Because it's the latest craze. Seeing more of this engine configuration on the water. Fountain 38. http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=55671 |
| BOB KEMMLER JR |
posted 01-21-2007 08:57 PM ET (US)
Another rumor is more hp out of the current Verado setup with no extra weight.The Verado engines are built like the proverbial brick outhouse,more fuel and boost is all thats needed for the current engines to see 300-350 hp IMO. |
| jimh |
posted 01-21-2007 09:21 PM ET (US)
By the way, if you look at the back cover of the latest Whaler owner's magazine, I think you can see the transom of the new boat. As soon as I got my magazine in the mail a few days ago I though that must be the new boat. A riple Verado installation is shown on the transom of a boat, but you can't see much of the boat, just the transom. It must be the new Whaler, don't you think? |
| where2 |
posted 01-21-2007 09:52 PM ET (US)
Miami International Boat Show is less than a month away. They ought to be secretly testing it on the water somewhere by now if it is going to show at Miami. It's hard to sell a customer a boat you haven't run and give them real numbers for speed and fuel consumption. |
| kglinz |
posted 01-22-2007 12:13 AM ET (US)
To pump up a 2.6 Liter engine to 350 HP, and go offshore, equates to driving a "Top Fuel dragster" to the grocery store. |
| JMARTIN |
posted 01-22-2007 01:19 PM ET (US)
Man, I do not get it. Once a boat gets to 26 feet or so, I expect it to go slower, make good use of it's space, and be set up to stay on. Just where do you put your dingy if you got 3 outboards hanging off your stern? I guess you have to toss it up top with the radar. Boston Whaler made great little boats. The bigger ones have not impressed me. I wonder if this 34 will just be a bigger conquest. John |
| BOB KEMMLER JR |
posted 01-22-2007 03:02 PM ET (US)
kglinz-Thats true when engines are naturally aspirated,but when boost is entered via a super or turbocharger,they can be as mild mannered as any grocery getter.I was able to get 325+ hp out of a Dodge 2.5 Turbo Efi motor in a lowly Omni.It didn't sound or drive any different than a stocker until you floored it.I'll be glad to see if all these rumors are true.I heard the same rumors last year though only to be let down.Even the 300 hp Suzuki has yet to be seen in showrooms. |
| kglinz |
posted 01-22-2007 03:37 PM ET (US)
Bob I would like to see some boost pressure numbers on Verados. The boost on my F350 truck runs about 5# on level ground and gets up too 18# on a hard pull. My supercharged Ford T-Bird runs a vacuum until I get on it hard. If the feelings of many on the forum are true, and outboards "work" much harder than car engines, then how much boost is applied at a 4500 PRM cruse? The more boost, the more combustion pressure and heat. |
| BOB KEMMLER JR |
posted 01-22-2007 03:45 PM ET (US)
Good question,i have never heard a boost number on the Verados,but i'll see what i can dig up.I was running 25/26 psi on that turbo dodge,that was with a good mix of cam2 racing fuel though(18 psi on 92/93 octane).I have heard of Mercury test motors of over 400 hp on pump gas,so they are at least toying with those power levels. |
| Peter |
posted 01-22-2007 04:21 PM ET (US)
The Grady White 360 Express is a fine looking boat until you get to the transom and see the clutter of three outboards hanging off it. Whaler tried making and selling a 34 foot inboard boat with little success. At some point, they need to let another Brunswick boat brand like Cabo for example take over, otherwise with the natural progression of things someday we will be seeing 65 foot Whaler sport fishers with 8 Verados competing with the likes of HATTERAS. What kind of fuel would be required to squeeze out 350 HP out of 2.6L. It already requires premium fuel to get 275. Also, why did they stop at 275 and not go right to 300 if this 2.6L platform had so much extra capacity? I'll bet that if we see a higher HP Verado, its going to have more displacement than 2.6L. |
| jimh |
posted 01-22-2007 08:20 PM ET (US)
Please start a new discussion for the annual Verado rumors--or revive one of the old ones. I'd love to hear more about the 34-foot Boston Whaler CONQUEST. This is a new rumor, and I think it has some potential. |
| prm1177 |
posted 01-22-2007 09:24 PM ET (US)
Heard this rumor at the boat show in August. My only concern with a hull this large would be the hull's swamped capacity. Looking at current specs, the Conquest 255 has a higher swamped capacity (6100 lbs) than the 305 (2200 lbs). My other concern would be the stresses on the sandwich construction of a Whaler. Larger hulls flex more and might be the cause of foam/hull de-lamination. Anyone care to comment? |
| Peter |
posted 01-23-2007 08:06 AM ET (US)
I wonder if the significant reduction in swamped capacity on the 305 Conquest is caused by the use of stringers? |
| handn |
posted 01-24-2007 09:07 AM ET (US)
The swamped capacity of the 34 would probably be less than that of the 305 which is a little over 2000 pounds. More swamped capacity is obviously better but the 305 is still a safe boat because of the double hull protection against hull punctures and the fact the entire cockpit, cabin and bilge would have to be flooded to swamp the boat. Anything is possible but the perfect storm of flooding everything seems fairly unlikely absent massive operator error or a catastrophic impact with a solid object. There is no reason why a composite Boston Whaler cannot be made as stong and rigid as any other fiberglass boat. Over the years various big boats, (Vista and Rampage for examples) have been made with cored hulls. The cored hull design has created issues with water intrusion but none with structural integrety. The bigger the boat the more it is likely to be left in the water all the time. The question in my mind is, how long can a big Boston Whaler boat be left in the water before the hull is blistered and what kind of repair process is necessary to repair the blisters. Little BW boats are trailerable, dry out between uses and rarely blister. |
| jimh |
posted 01-24-2007 09:30 AM ET (US)
Here is the boat transom I mentioned above. This is from the back cover of the recent edition of Boston Whaler's LEGENDS magazine. When I saw this advertisement I immediately wondered why Mercury was showing a boat with triple VERADO motors in a publication directed at Boston Whaler owners. Perhaps there is something of a hint or foreshadow in this advertisement and the boat it shows ever so briefly.
Doesn't that transom look like it could easily be from Boston Whaler? The details of the rigging and trim seem very appropriate. If anyone recognizes this as another brand of boat, please jump in to the discussion and let us know. |
| bluewaterpirate |
posted 01-24-2007 09:57 AM ET (US)
The boat transom in the picture is that of a SeaVee 340. http://www.seaveeboats.com/flash.html Tom |
| Contender25 |
posted 01-24-2007 10:02 AM ET (US)
That Transom is a Seavee 340B NOT a boston whaler
and here is a link to a picture of the transom on another Seavee 340B and it shows the same transom detail as the picture you posted (the rigging tubes and colored transom section) http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/5/7/1/7/1571790_3.jpg?1154100656000 |
| Contender25 |
posted 01-24-2007 10:03 AM ET (US)
Tom beat me to it ;-) sorry |
| Peter |
posted 01-24-2007 10:18 AM ET (US)
"The bigger the boat the more it is likely to be left in the water all the time. The question in my mind is, how long can a big Boston Whaler boat be left in the water before the hull is blistered and what kind of repair process is necessary to repair the blisters. Little BW boats are trailerable, dry out between uses and rarely blister. "
The bottom of any boat, be it a Whaler or not, must be coated with a barrier coating if left in the water for any extended period of time. |
| JMARTIN |
posted 01-24-2007 12:36 PM ET (US)
My 1983 Sport 15 with bottom paint has never developed a blister and it will sit on a bouy for months at a time. My Catalina 30 with bottom paint, developed blisters after a couple of years. John |
| jimh |
posted 01-24-2007 01:27 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the pointers to the SeaVee 340B hull which clearly appears to be the boat shown in the Mercury advertisement which has been sent to owners of Boston Whaler boats. The transom configuration of the SeaVee 340B looks quite interesting. Those dual pylons or nacelles in the transom from which the rigging harnesses and steering lines emerge is a nice solution. We will have to see the Boston Whaler designers' solution to the problem of rigging triple engines and compare it with the SeaVee. It is not completely clear in the transom shown in the advertisement, but it appears that there are dual hydraulic lines. Apparently when triple Verado motors are used there are two hydraulic steering rams, one each on the two outboard engines. I wonder if there are multiple electro-hydraulic boost pumps, too? If the triple engine installation needs dual electro-hydraulic boost pumps for the steering, they would add more rigging and more electrical load. This new Boston Whaler is going to be a lot more complex than a tiller steered 13-footer, isn't it? |
| Tates |
posted 01-25-2007 10:52 PM ET (US)
I figured the lower swamped capacity was due to less foam, because of increased cabin and storage areas on the larger Conquests. |
| handn |
posted 01-27-2007 10:38 AM ET (US)
Whaler is offering a small rebate on 2006 305 Conquests. Previously, they sold sufficiently well that no rebate was needed. A 350 Conquest might pick up sales. They interviewed the president of Brunswick on CNBC. He said the small boat business was slow but bigger yachts were still selling well. |
| prm1177 |
posted 01-28-2007 04:31 PM ET (US)
>>I figured the lower swamped capacity was due to less foam, because of increased cabin and storage areas on the larger Conquests.<< Swamped capacity is generally related to the amount of foam relative to the hull's displacement. Since the thickness of the hull does not increase proportionally with the length and beam of a bigger Whaler, the swamped capacity decreases as a result. |
| JMARTIN |
posted 01-29-2007 06:10 PM ET (US)
The guy I asked at the Boston Whaler display at the Seattle Boat Show on Saturday, had not heard anything about a 34 foot model. He said he would find the Boston Whaler rep, who was supposedly there, and find out. I poked around the boats for about 20 minutes, got bored, looked around for the guy I had talked to, could not find him, asked another guy about talking to the Boston Whaler rep, got a "he is around here somewhere" and left. John |
| pglein |
posted 01-31-2007 06:08 PM ET (US)
Wow. Lots of hate for diesel inboards. I can tell you this much, I would NEVER buy a boat over 30' with anything but a diesel inboard. Period. I don't care if it's a Boston Whaler or not, the durability, safety, and efficiency of a diesel inboard can not be beat, to say nothing of the benefits of proper weight distribution and noise reduction. Powering a 34' boat with triple outboards may be "familiar territory" for Boston Whaler, but it will not fly with the type of customer in the market for a 34' cruising boat. Boston Whaler's lack of success with larger boats has always been their inability to recognize that, in that size range, fishing takes a back seat to creature comfort. The Defiance was a nice boat, but hoplessly lacking in cabin amenities and space given it's size and price. That's why it failed. Not because it was diesel powered. And inboard diesels are a heck of a lot more than re-tuned automotive engines, as one person mentioned. Sure, some are. But even those engines have proven track records of reliability that far surpass any outboard ever built. Outboards are lightweight and easily installed. That has always been their competitive edge on smaller boats. But when you start to play with the big boys, the factors change. WHERE the weight is situated becomes more important than how much of it there is. Long term durability becomes more important than ease of replacement. It's a different ballgame, and the decision to power a 34' cruising boat with three outboards is like benching your best pitcher in game one of the world series just because he didn't come up next in the rotation. Rookie mistake. |
| kiwapilot |
posted 02-01-2007 02:48 PM ET (US)
I just purchased a 1989 Donzi F-33,in my opinion one of the first of this kind,, after extensive research on the "triple" engine set up. After going out on my bro in laws 37 Intrepid with triple 250XS mercs, I fell in love. As I write I am having triple 225 merc efi's put on the Donzi with 12 inch jackplates, I'm hoping on a mid to lower 70 mph somewhat smooth ride to the fishing grounds.. will post updates...stoked!! |
| jimh |
posted 02-09-2007 12:39 AM ET (US)
We're getting closer to the boat show. Any more leaks on the new boats Whaler will have there? |
| erik selis |
posted 02-09-2007 02:33 AM ET (US)
I still think that diesels are the best way to go for such large boats. At least here in Europe where fuel prices would eliminate the thought of buying 3 large outboard engines for one boat. Maybe it would sell in the States but I don't think it would anywhere else. Has anyone ever seen these Whalers before? http://www.botentekoop.nl/motorkruisers/482195/ Boston-Whaler-31-Sportfish-1992.html Erik |
| Sheila |
posted 02-11-2007 08:41 AM ET (US)
At the Los Angeles boat show yesterday, the dealer confirmed that a 34 Conquest will debut in Miami next week. He was pretty matter-of-fact about sharing the information. This is the same dealer who gave me a very odd look and a "where did you hear THAT?" when I inquired about the 190 Montauk last year..... |
| jimh |
posted 02-11-2007 04:55 PM ET (US)
I bet the 34-foot CONQUEST will have three Verado motors on the transom. Did the dealer happen to mention that? |
| jbtaz |
posted 02-12-2007 06:53 AM ET (US)
Yes it will have triples. |
| jbtaz |
posted 02-12-2007 06:55 AM ET (US)
-also a new 300hp Verado coming... |
| Sheila |
posted 02-12-2007 09:39 AM ET (US)
The dealer didn't mention power. And I forgot to ask. So sorry! |
| 320OR |
posted 02-13-2007 07:47 PM ET (US)
The 345 Conquest will have the option of either dual or triple motors, with a 370 gallon fuel tank. Its top end with triple 250 verados is about 50 mph. This boat is like no other. It is the best looking boat to ever come out of Whaler. It also has almost 8ft of headroom in the cabin, and a fully enclosed cockpit complete with air conditioning. The hardtop design is unique with dual sky lights over the helm. This boat is absolutely amazing. If anyone has a chance to get to the Miami boat show, I suggest you go just to get a look at this beast. |
| TRAFFICLAWYER |
posted 02-13-2007 09:31 PM ET (US)
I WANT ONE, I NEED ONE, I HAVE TO HAVE ONE! Than I'll really be the ' King of Something HOT'! |
| TRAFFICLAWYER |
posted 02-13-2007 09:32 PM ET (US)
Oh, I forgot, I'd swap out those Veradoes for trip F250's. |
| jimh |
posted 02-14-2007 12:23 AM ET (US)
The triple Verado motors will be the 250-HP models--no premium fuel needed. OK--One day to go. Email those pictures. Someone has to be going to Miami at 9 a.m. Thursday. The 300-HP Verado will be shown on a Whaler over at the in-water show on the big Mercury dock. If you go for a demo ride, hang on to your hat. |
| lucas |
posted 02-14-2007 09:57 PM ET (US)
I am going to the show and post my thoughts on sunday night. |
| BOB KEMMLER JR |
posted 02-15-2007 04:07 PM ET (US)
Heading out early in the AM for the show, can't wait to see if i can get some good pics of this boat. |
| poker13 |
posted 02-15-2007 05:05 PM ET (US)
The BW website has published a spec sheet on the new Conquest 345: |
| JMARTIN |
posted 02-15-2007 05:56 PM ET (US)
Jeepers, 34 feet and they stil can not figure out how to build a cabin, or store fishing rods. John |
| BOB KEMMLER JR |
posted 02-15-2007 06:21 PM ET (US)
I'd hate to have to pay for the fuel bill on 3 300 hp Verados YIKES! |
| bluewaterpirate |
posted 02-15-2007 06:31 PM ET (US)
It's a steal ..... only has trip 250's. Did you see the Yamaha 350 V8 rending ...... 804 lbs. |
| Sal A |
posted 02-16-2007 07:25 PM ET (US)
The Whaler.tv interview with the design engineer has him saying that the 345 Conquest will pergorm quite fine with twin Verado 275's, with a comfortable 30 mph cruise and a high end just above 40mph, and obviously more with triples. This would be an ideal boat for the new twin Yamaha F350's in my opnion! |
| 320OR |
posted 02-17-2007 05:19 PM ET (US)
I just found out another juicy bit of info. Plans for a 370 Outrage for the 2010 model year. I guess Whaler is in it for the large boat market. |
| Livingwater |
posted 02-25-2007 08:40 AM ET (US)
Their overall larger boats are awesome however they should invest more time and money designing the cabins and spicing them up with more luxury. |
| jimh |
posted 02-25-2007 02:31 PM ET (US)
More luxury? A center queen-size bed with electrically tilting mattress isn't enough? |
| poker13 |
posted 02-26-2007 12:09 PM ET (US)
Really. These are fishing boats, not cruisers. These boats are going the way of the SUV, from rough and tumble, no nonsense utilitarian vehicles to luxury vehicles for people to show off. |
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