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Author Topic:   190 MONTAUK: 135 v 115-HP
DeepSouthWhaler posted 09-24-2007 02:03 PM ET (US)   Profile for DeepSouthWhaler  
[Seeks readers with] experience with [the 115-HP and 135-HP] engines on a 190 Montauk? It is pricey ($4,000) to upgrade to the 135 Verado. I [plan] to buy [a 190 MONTAUK] and can't decide on the engine. I usually have three or four people on the boat.
L H G posted 09-24-2007 04:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Since Whaler.com does not yet have the 135 Verado performance shown, I think it is reasonable for you to contact Customer Service to get that performance information before you buy.

My own guess. Go with the Verado for considerably better acceleration and load carrying capacity in planing off the boat. Non-supercharged 115 4-strokes can be slugs in acceleration with 4 adults on board. Even the DTS controls makes it worthwhile. Note that the 115 needs 4,000 RPM to cruise at just 25 MPH. I do think the $4,000 differential in price is steep, so drive a harder bargain with the dealership!

Another thought for would-be 190 buyers. Take the standard boat "as is". Then sell off the brand new 115 4-stroke and buy a discounted 135 or 150 Optimax (Almars Outboards or Jaco's Marine), since existing controls and Smartcraft instruments could still be used. The only downside is that a 25" 115 is a little harder to sell than a 20" model. With a 150 Opti, the 190 should be screamer at about 52 MPH.

nydealer posted 09-24-2007 07:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for nydealer  Send Email to nydealer     
The boat jumps on plane with the 135 Verado. Very nice performance. In that $4,000 upgrade you are also getting DTS controls, Smart Craft Guages, and Hydraulic steering. That really isn't bad when you look at what your getting.
L H G posted 09-24-2007 07:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
With all of those extras included above the standard 115, I agree the 135 Verado is the way to go, and quite reasonable.
bigjohn1 posted 09-25-2007 01:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
I really don’t understand Mercury’s reasoning for doing so but the 115 EFI has a fairly high gearing for its level of power (2-07:1). This means you have fewer good propeller options available to you since you will be carrying 3-4 people. The 135 Verado has essentially the same gear ratio but 20 more horsepower so it will perform better and will take higher pitched props than the 115.
Is all of this worth $4,000? That’s the $64,000 question that you will have to answer for yourself.
DeepSouthWhaler posted 09-25-2007 10:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
After factoring in the DTS, hydraulic steering, and Smart Craft, the up charge is not bad at all. It seems like the best choice for my needs.
L H G posted 09-25-2007 01:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
John - It's a good thing you don't own a 75 or 90 Evinrude E-tec. They use an even higher gear ratio of 2.0. Talk about limiting prop availability, with less HP! Most users have to run 15" or 17" pitch. (Props become less efficient with a given design line as pitch gets lower.) More R & D needed here, instead of using OMC's old gearcases from the 70's V-4's. Merc 90's use a more reasonable 2.33, allowing more efficient, higher pitch, props to be run.

Regarding your 2.07 115 HP Mercaha, I think you got caught in the middle. Both the earlier 2 stroke 115 & 125's, and now the later Verado block 115's were/are more powerful, and make better use of the 2.07 ratio.

TexasWhaler posted 09-25-2007 06:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for TexasWhaler  Send Email to TexasWhaler     
I'd like to take this opporitunity to point out that the E-TEC 90, and 115 models, also offer gear ratios of 2.25:1.

Considerably better than the 2.07:1 ratio on the Verado block 115.

Also, LHG stated:
"More R & D needed here, instead of using OMC's old gearcases from the 70's V-4's".

I highly doubt that's the case. Pun intended ;-)

L H G posted 09-26-2007 02:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Sorry, Tex. I wasn't aware that Evinrude offered gear ratio options on the mid range 75-115 engines, although with a 2.25 availability, I can't see why anyone would want or need the 2.0 at such low HP levels. The only optional gear ratios I've previoiusly seen on outboards are on the big, racing Merc cases like the TorqueMasters or SportMasters. The 2.25 is fairly close to the 2.33 that Merc and Yamaha use, so I would assume that ratio would be on the engines stocked by most dealerships, especially for the 20" engines. I guess I was confused because some of the E-tec owners here have reported they had the higher 2.0 option, requiring very low pitch props. Guess those dealerships should have been more astute in placing the engine orders.
DeepSouthWhaler posted 09-27-2007 08:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
Does anyone know the impact of the additional weight of the 135 on the stern?
jimh posted 09-28-2007 09:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have some actual experience with the four-cylinder Verado motors. Without the optional power boost of electro-hydraulic steering, they require rather significant effort to turn the wheel. I suppose in the long run you would probably get used to it, but my initial reaction was that the heavy motor was hard to steer. I think the hydraulic cylinder used on the Verado is really designed for the boosted system.

On the other hand I have also actual experience with the Veradito 115-HP motor. It uses a more conventional steering system and mount--actually just about identical to the OMC system from the 1970's. This provides much lower effort for the steering. I have a few hours behind the wheel of a MONTAUK 170 with a Veradito 115 and did not find the steering to require any unusual effort.

You might want to take a test drive and see if the heavy steering effort is going to be a problem. Unfortunately in an open boat like a 190 MONTAUK there is no good place to install the hydraulic boost pump. I am not sure if it is an option.

SmartCraft is available in both motors. It may be that in the Whaler option package they throw in a display with the Verado option.

The DTS is a very nice system. It goes with the newer gear case.

Let me tell you an hilarious anecdote about Mercury gear cases. The principal engineer on the Verado product was Claus Bruestle, a German automotive engine designer who was hired by Mercury to head the project since, to be polite about this, Mercury lacked home-grown experience with producing high-performance four-stroke engines. Now Claus was a very good engine designer but he was not a boater. One of the first things Mercury did was to get him out on a boat and show him how to run it so he could see what was needed in the new engine they were going to build. So they go out on an outboard powered boat for a ride.

Claus takes the helm and shifts the Mercury into gear. CLUNK goes the gear case. If you have ever heard a pre-Verado Mercury shift you know the sound they make. Claus is startled by how rough the shifting is. He tells the other Mercury engineers onboard, "Zis thing shifts like a 1950's truck. Vee have to fix this!"

No, no, the Mercury guys explain that all their motors shift like this, they always have.

"Exactly," says Claus.

Well, Claus did take the CLUNK out of the Mercury gear case in the Verado DTS models. They shift beautifully.

Buckda posted 09-28-2007 09:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Let me tell you another hilarious anecdote:

The E-TEC is not available as an option on a 190 Montauk. Why this motor was brought into the discussion seems strange at first, but then it's kind of funny.

When my stepbrother was younger, you could tell what he "feared" or didn't want you to know the most because in his effort to avoid his fear, he'd blurt it out and bring that which he feared most into the discussion. You could see it in his eyes when out popped those words. Something like:
"We can play basketball, but Jimmy can't come over" (Jimmy was a friend who was much better at hoops).

"Well! Jimmy can't play eh!? Who said anything about Jimmy?"

You see, in order to get Jimmy to come over an play, we'd have to call his mom, make arrangements to drive over or have her bring him over, and then make arrangements to get Jimmy home. That's a lot of extra effort for a quick basketball game in the driveway.

Same goes for E-TEC. You CANNOT buy an E-TEC rigged Whaler...you have to really WANT an E-TEC for your boat and go to extra effort to get it done. I fully understand someone wanting to do this, but that's not what this poster was asking about.

IN FACT, the original poster had already commented that he was going to upgrade to the 135 Verado before the specter of E-TEC was even raised.

Wow. Those E-TEC's really ARE amazing, aren't they?

:P

Buckda posted 09-28-2007 09:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
DeepSouth -

Don't worry about the additional weight. The 190 Montauk is a newly designed boat - the engineers are designing for a world with heavy 4-stroke motors - the boat should handle the weight fine and perform wonderfully with that Verado on the back.

I've driven a verado-powered boat and been very impressed with the motor.

Good luck!

Dave

L H G posted 09-28-2007 02:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Jim - I can't see why an L4 135-200HP Verado would be hard to steer with hydraulic steering. This series of engine weighs less than the relatively heavy 3.3 liter Evinrudes and only a little more than the 3.0 liter Mercs. Thousands of these 3 liter Mercs have been sold since their introduction in 1994, all equipped with Teleflex hydraulic steering, even in triples and quads, and they steer easily. Same for the heavier Evinrudes, I'm sure.

I drove a twin 175 Verado equipped boat at Sundance, with twin hydraulic steering, and it was as easy to steer as my twin 200 EFI's, also with twin hydraulic cylinders. You must have caught a bad installation job from Whaler, or the engine was improperly trimmed, adding to steering torque.

On my 18 Outrage I am steering TWIN engines (twice as much prop torque, and with high rake 24" Laser II's, with a combined wieght of 610 lb, much more than a single 510# Verado L4 200, and steering at all speeds is amazingly easy.

Mercury has no experience with high performance 4-strokes? YOu can't be serious. Don't forget about the MERCRUISER division, whos engines, inboard and I/O, have ruled the high performance offshore market for 40 years. Didn't they even produce some Corvette engines for GM? Claus was brought in for his supercharging expertise I believe.

Is that story about him from your being on that boat ride, or it a fourth or fifth hand urban legend? Everybody in performance boating knows that both Mercury and Mercruiser gearcase design is the leader in this technology, with the largest selection offered of any manufacturer. Evinrude even complained about being "disadvantaged" in the 225 DFI shootout by the Merc gearcase on the Optimax. Honda has bought Merc gearcases for years, and Yamaha's were copied from Merc, which is why Merc props fit so easily.

Finally tilt tube steering was invented and first offered by Mercury in the 60's. It was called "Ride Guide". 16, 19 and 21' Whalers into the early 70's came equipped with the old fashioned transom mounted cable steering block so they could accomodate the non-tilt tube OMC's. Don't know when OMC finally introduced the tilt tube steering. Probably after Merc's patent expired.

jimh posted 09-28-2007 04:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You should try a L4 Verado with manual steering and compare. My guess is they use the same actuator on both the manual steer and the power steer. So the total effort is the same, but with the power steer most of the force comes from the boost. Without the boost the helmsman has to supply the force. The Veradito uses a normal steering actuator and it steers normally. The weight is lighter, too. But I believe the difference is mainly in the actuator design.

The MercCuiser engines are GM blocks from automotive applications. Mercury has a first-class assembly operation and has built a lot of high-power V8 automotive engines and adapted them to sterndrives, and they even built some engines for GM that went back into cars (Corvettes), but Mercury never designed a high-horsepower four-stroke outboard before. Prior to this the only part of a four-stroke outboard that Mercury designed and manufactured was the cast aluminum block. The rest of their four-stroke outboard came from Yamaha--the heads, the cams, the valves, etc. Mercury did not have the experience--the research and design--to make the Verado with their existing staff. They went out of house. It was a good move. George Buckley probably was behind it. Buckley was also a fresh breeze coming to Mercury. He was a Ph.D in Engineering running the company, not some old boat salesman who made it to the top, or a mergers and acquisitions lawyer.

In any case, Claus Bruestle agrees with me--the reason they got him to come to Mercury was because Mercury did not have in-house talent to design the engine they wanted. Those are more or less his own words on the subject.

And as you can see in his comment regarding the gear case, Claus also brought with him a new approach to how things needed to work. The old way was not going to cut it with Claus in charge. That is why the Verado is so totally different than anything ever seen before from Mercury (or other outboard makers). The Verado is not a Mercury engine that Claus bolted on a supercharger. The Verado is a completely new design, from a clean sheet of paper.

I can understand the thinking. If a CEO is going to commit $100-million to design a new engine, he might want to take a look around to see if there is anybody who might know more about it than the guys he already has in Fond du Lac.

All of these comments I attribute to Claus are direct quotes from published interviews he gave during the Verado introduction publicity blitz. They have all appeared in boating magazines.

Whalerdog posted 09-28-2007 09:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
The extra 100-lbs won't make a difference on the 190 Montauk. When running hard the bow never flies up even when airborne. Standing on the transome makes little difference at rest and I am 220-lbs not 100-lbs. I think [a 190 MONTAUK] will be great with a 135. I was quoted an additional $7,000 for a 2008 with a 135 so I took the 2007 and 115. Seems great to me but I usually only have two people. Even three is decent. Four with some gear may be better with a 135.
highanddry posted 09-29-2007 02:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
When the Nantucket was introduced it listed an engine weight that suddenly increased when the Verado became available. Now you guys are shocked that the Montauck can suddenly take a larger or heavier or more powerful engine--of course it can. Boston Whaler is the manufactuer, they can do what they like within reason. they conservatvely rate their boats, a few pounds here or a few more horsepower there will matter not. Turns out the Nantucket 190 and Outrage 190 are great with a Verado 150 and I imagine the Montauck would be as well.
wood duck posted 09-30-2007 12:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
I own a 2008 montauk with the 135 verado. Great boat. Good mid-range power. Top-end once at 48mph on the gps....20 gal. of fuel, only myself and no wind. Can usually top out at 44-45mph under normal conditions. Cruises effortlessly at 35-40. Fish with a friend who has a 2007 montauk with the 115. Very slow to plane with three fishermen, fuel & gear. I am glad I held out for the 135 and would spend the the add'tl money again to have the pkg. I have now. I also like the smartcraft gauges and dts throttle, power steering.
wood duck posted 09-30-2007 12:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
also...cannot feel add'tl weight in the stern with the 135...my fishing friend with the 115 noticed that immediately when we very quickly jumped on plane.
Whalerdog posted 09-30-2007 08:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
The only problem I find with my 115 is if it is calm I end up cruising at 5500-6000, Can't wait to see Merc performance numbers.
nemored posted 10-05-2007 12:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for nemored  Send Email to nemored     
While you guys are debating on how fast your boats go; I will keep catching Salmon and crabs in my 90hp Honda powered (very slow) Montauk 19. I have to go, I just got a bite!
DeepSouthWhaler posted 10-05-2007 04:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
I will be doing a side by side test run with the Montauk tomorrow. The dealer will have one rigged with a 115 and another rigged with the 135. I may be driving back with a new boat.
wood duck posted 10-08-2007 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
DeepSouthWhaler....interested in your side by side comparison of 190's with a 115,135.
DeepSouthWhaler posted 10-08-2007 09:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
I was only able to go on the boat with the 115hp. The Montauk with the 135 Verado was delayed and just arrived the afternoon before. It still had the shrink wrap on it. We ran the Montauk with the 115 for about 30 minutes. We had 4 adults on board. The boat was a little slow to plane but had a nice cruise once it got going. I decided to go with the 135 only because I will have 4-5 people on board with ice and fishing gear. The 115 would be fine for 2-3 people. It is a very nice boat. The wind was blowing 15-20 knots and produced a stiff chop on the bay that we ran in. The boat rode better than my 18 Dauntless and has more room.
Whalerdog posted 10-09-2007 12:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Good luck with the new boat! Your are going to love it. Great boat in the rough and DRY! It will run in any direction in some rough water in a great fashion. It has amazed me for 19' boat. 135 can only make it better.
Whalerdog posted 10-09-2007 12:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Good luck with the new boat! Your are going to love it. Great boat in the rough and DRY! It will run in any direction in some rough water in a great fashion. It has amazed me for 19' boat. 135 can only make it better.
Whalerdog posted 10-09-2007 12:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Good luck with the new boat! Your are going to love it. Great boat in the rough and DRY! It will run in any direction in some rough water in a great fashion. It has amazed me for 19' boat. 135 can only make it better.
Whalerdog posted 10-09-2007 12:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Good luck with the new boat! Your are going to love it. Great boat in the rough and DRY! It will run in any direction in some rough water in a great fashion. It has amazed me for 19' boat. 135 can only make it better.
Whalerdog posted 10-09-2007 12:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Good luck with the new boat! Your are going to love it. Great boat in the rough and DRY! It will run in any direction in some rough water in a great fashion. It has amazed me for 19' boat. 135 can only make it better.
wood duck posted 10-18-2007 09:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
DeepSouthWhaler, I would be interested in your comments/ feedback on the Montauk 190 with the 135.
jimh posted 10-18-2007 08:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Wooduck writes:

"I own a 2008 [M]ontauk with the 135 [V]erado.. I also like the [S]mart[C]raft gauges...[DTS] throttle, [and] power steering."

I do not see power steering listed as an option. Is this included in the $4,436 up charge for the Verado 135 option?

Cf.: http://whaler.com/Rec/default3.asp?boatid=23&content=build&action=new

wood duck posted 10-18-2007 09:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
jimh....yes
wood duck posted 10-20-2007 10:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
I believe I stand corrected on power steering included in the basic upcharge on the 135 Verado. Steering is "hydraulic tilt" and not "power assist hydraulic".I used "power steering" as the broad category...regardless, it steers wonderfully and met all my expectations
Bulldog posted 10-21-2007 09:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Deepsouth, good choice! The larger engine will not have to work as hard for the same amount of work, sounds lik ethe ideal setup, plus the steering is something you would really want anyway!........Jack
jimh posted 10-21-2007 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
To clarify the term "power steering" I mean the type of steering normally used with the Verado motors where an electrically operated motor provides a boost to the hydraulic pressure used to operate the steering ram on the motor.

In a hydraulic steering system which lacks a boost pump, the helm pump supplies the hydraulic pressure which actuates the steering ram on the motor. The input force is provided by the helmsman via the steering wheel, which is translated to a hydraulic pressure and sent to the actuator.

How much force is needed at the steering wheel input to turn the motor is determined by the configuration of the hydraulic system. The two principal factors are the design of the actuator and the design of the helm pump.

At the helm pump, the volume of hydraulic fluid output per turn of revolution of the wheel is a factor. The more volume per turn, the faster the engine will turn.

At the motor actuator the more volume of fluid needed to produce a given movement, the easier the motor will turn.

So we have a situation where the input force needed to turn a motor can vary depending on the helm pump used and the actuator used. Various combinations of helm pump and actuators will produce various rates of turn, number of turns lock-to-lock, and various amounts of input force required.

In a Verado four-cylinder I was under the impression that the steering actuator was the same as used on the larger six-cylinder models, and I base that on this specification from the Mercury website:

"Steering: Hydraulic or electro-hydraulic power steering available using standard Mercury universal cylinder."

When someone says that a device is both "standard" and "universal" I take that to mean that it is used in many applications. So my conclusion is that the steering cylinder (actuator) is the same on all the Verado motors. The variables in the Veardo steering system then are reduced to the helm pump and the presence or lack of an electro-hydraulic boost pump.

Based solely on my first-hand experience in operating a Boston Whaler 200 Dauntless which was rigged with a four-cylinder Verado 175-HP motor and did not have the option of the electro-hydraulic boost pump, I thought the amount of steering effort at the steering wheel was higher than what I was accustomed to from operating my Teleflex hydraulic steering which turns a V6 motor of greater power and less weight. I did not make any measurement of the number of turns lock-to-lock, so I cannot offer any comparison on that. It might have been that the steering was "faster" (that is, required fewer turns lock-to-lock) than I was accustomed to, and this in itself would be a cause for greater steering effort being needed. You cannot get mechanical effort by magic, and if the steering operates faster the helmsman has to provide greater force.

In the Verado motors with the electro-hydraulic boost pump the extra power to turn the motor faster comes from the boost pump, which in turn gets it from the battery. I have not measured this myself, but I recently read that the electric motor in the boost pump can draw as much as 60-amperes from the battery which powers it. A current of 60-amperes at 13.2-volts is a lot of power (about 800-watts or 1-HP), so you can see how much extra force the power boost steering can apply to the system. It is like having a horse along to turn the motor.

To get back to the Boston Whaler rigging with the Verado four-cylinder motors, it sounds as though they are all being rigged without the electro-hydraulic boost pump but with the standard and universal Mercury steering cylinder. And it also appears that the electro-hydraulic boost pump is not an option, at least from the factory, although it is an option with the four-cylinder Verado motor since it uses the same universal steering cylinder and is mentioned in the Mercury literature.

Whalerdog posted 10-28-2007 04:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
DSW did you get one yet?
DeepSouthWhaler posted 11-11-2007 05:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
I should have the new boat in 2-3 weeks.
Whalerdog posted 11-11-2007 05:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Good to here. Great baot and slightly better with a 135 IMHO.I am still waiting for posting of performance/fuel consumption on the Whaler site. Guess a 135 would be better for me cruising but I couldn't wait. Keep us posted.
DeepSouthWhaler posted 11-13-2007 02:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
Are the Smartcraft gauges standard when you get the 135 Verado?
wood duck posted 11-14-2007 08:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for wood duck  Send Email to wood duck     
Yes, Smartcraft gauges are standard with the 135 Verado.
Whalerdog posted 11-23-2007 04:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
soon :<)
bwhaler01 posted 12-03-2007 12:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for bwhaler01  Send Email to bwhaler01     
Hey Guys. I have been looking at purchasing a 190 Montauk with the 115 hp. The sales rep mentioned that if I have 5 people in the boat, it won’t plane easily. If that is true, I wonder how it will respond with the 8 person capacity….

And so here is my quandary: I am shopping for either a 2008 170 Montauk with a 90 hp to a 2007 190 Montauk with a 115. The 135 set-up will be more than I want to spend on a boat. I know the 190 will ride better in chop, but the 170 has gobs of power to carry people and haul ass. Any thoughts to the subject matter?

Do any of you have any experience with the 190 with a 115 with 5 or more people? Is it really a dog and hard to plane?

Thanks for your help.

Mudkap1 posted 12-03-2007 08:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mudkap1  Send Email to Mudkap1     
bwhaler01,
This past summer I traded in my 170 Montauk 90HP for a 190 Montauk w/115HP. I typically have 3 adults on board and 1-3 kids with us. I have the rear seat option which is always in use and we constantly have the bimini up during the summer. The 115 HP on the 190 Montauk in my opinion does as good of a job as the 170 Montauk did with the same load of passengers. The upside is that we take the 190 Montauk out longer, farther, and in more so-so wind and chop conditions. I would recommend the 190 Montauk with the 115 HP and not look back. The savings alone in the cost between the 115 HP and the 135 HP will pay for 18-20, 60 gallon tanks of gas! I just got through 1 tank this summer! Enjoy.
Whaler_Jack posted 12-04-2007 09:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whaler_Jack  Send Email to Whaler_Jack     
I'll ecko the same comments. I traded my 170 for a 190 (115) and if you are going to carry 5 pass. or more you will certainly be happier with the 190. I've had 4 big guys and 2 kids with full fuel and several hundred pounds on tackle, coolers, ice, etc. and the boat does fine. The 170 is comfortable with 2 may 3 people ..that's it! The 190 is comfortable with 3-5 I'd think, depending on what you'd be doing. It is a much bigger boat. You'll enjoy either though!!

Jack

WinniWhaler17 posted 12-04-2007 10:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for WinniWhaler17  Send Email to WinniWhaler17     
I have a 2005 170MT with the 90 EFI 4 stroke and it runs really well, even with 3-4 adults and two small kids. It is a bit tight but the boat handles the rough very well and runs forever on a tank of fuel! I moved the motor up a hole and it actually picked up a couple MPH on the top end, has a better hole shot and just seems to perform better in general. I had a couple rear-quarter cushions made for it and if you're feeling adventurous - those seats work well too. Of course, after all this bragging about how great the 170 is, I'm either going to trade or sell the 170 this winter and move to the 190MT. Although, much like a few people here - I'm torn between the 115 and the 135. I'm a big fan of "you can never have enough HP" - and this is a second boat for us to an offshore go-fast, so it would be nice to get in and have the 135 to work with. But, the $4,500 upcharge does seem a bit steep - so, I guess I will just continue to read on here for a while and see what the general consensus ends up being as more 135's get out there.
DeepSouthWhaler posted 12-04-2007 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for DeepSouthWhaler    
I water-tested the 190 Montauk with the 115. We had 4 large adults on board. The performance was satisfactory. It took longer to get on a plane compared to our 18 Dauntless. I think that that the 190 with the 115 is a good combination. It just seemed that the motor was under a load the entire time we were running it. We decided to go with the 135 Verado only because we always have 4 people on the boat and like to water ski on occasion. The boat itself is awesome. It is much larger than the 18 Dauntless (pre-2008). We also found that it rode better in chop compared to the 18 Dauntless. Our new Montauk has been ready at the dealer for over 2 weeks. I have just been too busy to go pick it up. Once I get it and run it, I will post some performance numbers with the 135 Verado.

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