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Author Topic:   Verado Fuel Requirement
boatdryver posted 12-04-2007 07:08 PM ET (US)   Profile for boatdryver   Send Email to boatdryver  
A sales rep told me today that the supercharged Verado motors [Note: all Verado motors have superchargers--jimh] require premium fuel.

What are you owners doing about fuel for these engines? I haven't seen a marina fuel supplier with premium fuel.

JimL

glen e posted 12-04-2007 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
Mercury still recommends 93 for "optimum performance" but several of us with 300 GEN II's cannot tell any difference that really matters. No Verado at 250 hp or lower has ever required 93 octane, just the 275's and 300's. But Mercury testing on the new 300 proves the difference to be very small. So I decided to see for myself. I re-powered with 300's, so the boat was still filled with 87-octane from my old 250's. I then ran this over a stretch of water and got these results. Then took the tank down to 10 gallons and siphoned out 9 gallons (holds 300) refilled with 93-octane that was delivered to the station in the prior week. Ran the same stretch of water under same wind conditions. Below are the results. Four other owners also have reported the same results.

Chart of fuel consumption

Perry posted 12-04-2007 07:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
What the sales rep didn't know or failed to mention was that of the eight Verado models offered by Mercury, only two of them (275 & 300 HP) require premium fuel to achieve their rated HP.

A simple search on Mercury Marine's web site reveals this.

If someone owns a 275 or 300 HP Verado, I suppose he has to find a marina that sells premium fuel if he wants the full HP his motor can produce. The motor will run fine with 87 octane but will not achieve its rated full HP.

Perry posted 12-04-2007 07:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Glen must have quicker fingers on the keyboard than I!
boatdryver posted 12-04-2007 09:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
OK, thanks everyone for the quick feedback. I thought it might be like cars.

Both of our cars "require" premium fuel, but with the blessing of factory trained mechanics NOT employed by dealers we have for years been using only regular unleaded with no ill effects.

Since almost no marinas carrry premium gas it would be nuts for Mercury to actually require premium in these new engines.

JimL

L H G posted 12-05-2007 04:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
I have found almost all Marinas carry 89 Octane, even though most of us don't need it. So that could be used as a compromise also. If you're running a conventional 2-stroke, just watch out for Valvtech "marine gas", and if you're forced to buy it, don't idle for very long or your plugs will die on you.
jimh posted 12-05-2007 09:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Glen--Great data. Thanks for taking the time to collect and present it.
jimh posted 12-05-2007 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
And boatdryver, by the way, next time you talk to that sales rep, tell him that ALL Verado motors have superchargers. There is no basis to distinguish among Verado motors by having or lacking a supercharger. They all have 'em.
L H G posted 12-05-2007 09:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Glen:

Did I read that right, that you were running your boat only
lightly "Loaded"!!!

Actually, that is some impressive speed, and a big improvement over the 250's. Are the Tempest Plus now the prop of choice for your rig? Not Rev-4's or Inertias?

On my last trip down there, I was surprised to see how many 300's are out on the water already.

L H G posted 12-05-2007 10:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Further, running at 37 MPH cruise, with a 9000# hull and 600 HP, and getting 1.75 MPG, is impressive. That's about what I get with only 400 HP and an only 25' 3500# hull! And I also know a certain person, who shall remain anonymous, with a single 225 and 22' 2700# hull, who can't even get that kind of mileage at that speed (which is pretty close to wide open)! You have three times the weight and 3 times the HP!
glen e posted 12-05-2007 10:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
Jim - thanks for converting it to a pic...those numbers are spot on - as a matter of fact I went out in the ocean two weekends ago and in a 1-2 foot chop vs the ICW, the #'s were within 1/2 mph and .25 gph..I am on my 3rd tank of 93 now, and will change back to 87 with the next tank.

I have since switched to an Enertia 19 which gets very similar numbers albiet 1- 2 mph slower at WOT. But I think I'll keep them on as I like the fact that it's less weight than the Tempest due to the X7 alloy and that's gotta be easier on the gear train. Odd, the enertia did not work as well on the 250 - I can only attribute this to the diff gearing of the 300....

lurkynot posted 12-06-2007 11:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for lurkynot  Send Email to lurkynot     
Could be mistaken I do not believe all Verado's are supercharged.
Perry posted 12-06-2007 12:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
You are mistaken, all Verados are supercharged.

Mercury's line of "Four Stroke" motors are essentially the same as the Verados minus the supercharger and of course, less HP.

Peter posted 12-06-2007 12:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
"Mercury's line of "Four Stroke" motors are essentially the same as the Verados minus the supercharger and of course, less HP."

Only the 75 through 115 FourStrokes or "Veraditos" share parts with the Verados, or once shared parts with Verados (not clear whether the modifications to the Gen II Verados apply to the Veraditos). All Mercury FourStrokes below 75 HP are made in China or Japan and I've never read anything or seen anything that suggests that these motors share anything in common with the Verado or Veradito except the black paint job and decals.

boatdryver posted 12-06-2007 01:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
On the mercury web site, the "115 four stroke" and all the 4 cylinder verados 135 to 200 hp have the same displacement. and therefore might have the same block.

that makes me wonder how long a 200 HP four cylinder will hang together if driven aggressively.

JimL

Perry posted 12-06-2007 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
I meant the inline 4 cylinder 75-90 HP "Four Stokes" are essentially the same as the inline 4 cylinder Verados. Not the small 2.5 HP and above outboards Mercury has built overseas.
jimh posted 12-07-2007 01:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Mercury needs to do some more marketing of the Verado and the FourStroke also known as Veradito or Le Verado Petit, judging by what I am reading here. There is a lot of confusion.

Yes, the same displacement four-cylinder motor that turns out 75-HP also is cranked up to 200-HP.

WinniWhaler17 posted 12-07-2007 09:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for WinniWhaler17  Send Email to WinniWhaler17     
So, the question begs - like in the automotive world - if you have say, a 135 Verado and it is essentially the same as the 200 Verado, what would it take to jack the HP up on the 135 to even 150hp? I know in larger displacement marine I/O blower motors, the swap of a blower pulley and maybe a little remapping of the fuel and timing nets respectable gains without any undo harm to the motor. Could that be the same with the Verado line as well? Does anyone know the fundamental differences between the 135 and the 150 Verado, for example? (aside of the 15hp that is... ;o)
glen e posted 12-07-2007 10:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
all changes to the verados to get more HP is software related...if you take a computer out of a 200 and stick it into a 135, it'll make 200 hp. It may add boost, etc but there are no differences in hardware...(blower pulleys, intake runners, etc.) It would however void your warranty, but as we move on and verados expire their warranty and wrecked higher hp motors becsome avail, I expect to see this happen...

I know this gets some people upset as they claim "ripoff" but it is what it is...It makes more parts availabie as they are all the same, use the same filters, etc and keep costs down vs having a seperate smaller prod run of filter for one vs the other. The dealer can service more customers with a smaller parts inventory that has great turnover...that keeps a dealer healthy....

And By the way, the verado block starts at 135...the block on the 115 is similar but different - oil pump loacation is diff, etc....this comes straight from a verado certified tech that works my monitors my forum....

WinniWhaler17 posted 12-07-2007 11:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for WinniWhaler17  Send Email to WinniWhaler17     
Interesting. So, get a 150 or even a 175 "computer" (control box) and do a push-pull on your 135 motor, quick prop swap and - jackpot! And if you happen to be good friends with the owner of the dealership you bought your boat / motor from, then warranty shouldn't be an issue. Esp. if you keep the original computer / controller in the event it needs to "be there" for inspectional purposes? Not that I am advocating anything unethical here, just throwing out a hypothetical situation... ;o)
glen e posted 12-07-2007 06:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
Probably not that easy..your "good buddy dealer" that plays games with warranty for you might get cold feet when he realizes his franchise is in jeopardy for 'helping you out"...and warranty audits are commpon place in the industry..and to get a new computer you gotta send in your old one.... so I don't think you'll be able to keep the "lower hp spare" in your garage to swap in an out....

honestly, BRP, Merc, Zuke abd Yam have thought a lot about this....thay ain't stupid....

like I said, I think a wrecked V 450 is what I'm waiting for when my 300's are out of warranty....

jimh posted 12-07-2007 08:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
All these modern motors are built on software. If you can get the software and install it, you can change a motor's characteristics. But generally you cannot get the software. So generally you cannot accomplish any changes.
glen e posted 12-07-2007 09:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
EXACTLY.....
WinniWhaler17 posted 12-10-2007 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for WinniWhaler17  Send Email to WinniWhaler17     
Interesting perspective... thanks.
itl posted 12-11-2007 05:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for itl  Send Email to itl     
If you change tne EMM/ECU to get more power your outboard and something bad happens, why not change the original computer back to engine, before you make your warranty claims?

I believe that all engine history data is saved to EMM/ECU box memory and because of that and if you change the original box back, the manufacturer never know that you have run your engine with another box :-)

It is for sure that this kind of "play" with the software will happen in a future. It is only a matter of time when some 3rd party tuning company start to sell software which changes the engine so that it will deliver as much power as possible with the original hardware. Charged Verado engines are really potential candidates for this kind of sw-tuning.

jimh posted 12-11-2007 09:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I don't see much incentive for any authorized dealer to be making a customer's engine into something more powerful. First of all, there are not that many dealers, it's not like it's a universe of 10,000 dealers. It would not take long for word to get back to the manufacturer about who is doing unauthorized upgrades out the back door of the shop. Second, there is not much incentive for the dealer. A more powerful engine costs more. When the dealer sells things that cost more they make more profit. A dealer would not be actively trying to reduce his profit. Finally, there are federal laws that prevent tampering with an engine whose emissions are regulated. This adds another disincentive to making any changes to an engine--you are exposed to criminal charges.

As for "tuner kits" like those sold for automobiles, well the market for them is a lot smaller. For every 500 guys who want to hot rod their truck with a tuner kit, you might have one boater who is willing to take a risk on a pair of engines worth $50,000.

Mambo Minnow posted 12-11-2007 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Mambo Minnow  Send Email to Mambo Minnow     
My Mercury service provider does not sell boats. However, he does sell new Mercury motors in addition to servicing. He would have no financial incentive to lose sale of a new Verado by re-programming my existing one.

glen e posted 12-12-2007 07:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
It's all about the software...I drove a BMW M6 today with a V-10 engone and from the drivers seat you can pick 400, 500 or 500+ hp off the menu on the dash....It would be neat in the future to be able to "dial down" the HP via smartcraft when you did not need it and it would get better mpg....

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