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Author Topic:   Montauk 170 - Fuel filter placement in port hole
GreatBayNH posted 02-12-2008 11:42 PM ET (US)   Profile for GreatBayNH   Send Email to GreatBayNH  
I've read from one post that a Boston Whaler dealer was installing fuel filers inside the area behind the starboard side inspection hatch on Montauk 170s. Has anyone done this or seen it done? If there is enough room I can see it being a great solution to the "where to hide a fuel filter (water seperator) on a Montauk 170" question. My hope is I can get a nice Racor mounted in there and then install a fuel flow sensor after the filter but before the fuel line goes out to the splash well to the primer pump.

Here is a link to some great photos of the area in question posted by Erik Selis back in 2004.

http://users.skynet.be/extreme-vissers/Steps170.htm

Feejer posted 02-13-2008 12:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Looks like a pretty tough place to mount a fuel filter. Why don't you want to place the filter in the well?
GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 01:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Because it looks like...well, you know the word I want to use.

It does look tight, I agree. But if a dealer is doing it...
The main reason for wanting a fuel filter is that all my research is telling me you need a filter installed in front of a fuel flow meter if you want the fuel flow metering system to function consistantly/reliably.

GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 01:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
CORRECTION:
"all my research is telling me you need a filter installed in front of a fuel flow SENSOR if you want the fuel flow metering system to function consistantly/reliably."
Feejer posted 02-13-2008 01:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Correct, you want the fuel flow meter between the filter and the engine. I really don't think my fuelwater sep looks bad at all where its mounted. It also only take my about 15 seconds to change it out if needed
GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Send or post a pic. I'd like to see it.
Feejer posted 02-13-2008 04:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
On the way
WT posted 02-13-2008 04:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Here are some old pictures of my 170 Montauk fuel filter installed behind the inspection hatch.

My dealer installed it so I can't answer anything technical regarding the install.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk%20fuel%20filter/

Warren

GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 05:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Thanks you for the pictures!!! Both of you. ;-)
GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 06:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Warren,
Are those thru bolts holding the filter on? That is to say are the heads of the bolts holding the filter in place visible in the interior, starboard side of the splash well? No big deal if they are. I'm just trying to get a handle of how I will be mounting mine.

Thanks!

-Seth

WT posted 02-13-2008 06:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Yep. Mounting bolts run through the splash well. You can see the bolts on the exterior wall of the splashwell.

GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 06:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
So, to be clear, the bolt heads are IN the splash well near the hole where the fuel line comes out, correct?
WT posted 02-13-2008 07:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Please excuse my messy Montauk, but here's a picture.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk%20fuel%20filter/ ?action=view¤t=DSC_0709.jpg

Warren

Feejer posted 02-13-2008 08:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
I'm just wondering how safe of a place is that to install the fuel/water sep. I realize it not a completely seal compartment, but if the filter where to ever fail I for one would want to have any fuel leaking into the splash well, just a thought
GreatBayNH posted 02-13-2008 08:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Pain meds kicking in Feejer?
Feejer posted 02-14-2008 08:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
LOL, they must have been.

I'm still not convinced thats a safe place to put the filter.

GreatBayNH posted 02-14-2008 10:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
If the instection hatch cover was replaced with a transparant one would that make you feel better?
Feejer posted 02-14-2008 10:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Hey, don't laugh. I had one leak on my Sea Hunt. I lost about a gallon of gas into the bilge. What a mess that was
GreatBayNH posted 02-14-2008 01:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Point well taken Feej.
Seriously though, do you think a clear hatch cover would be a good idea?
Feejer posted 02-14-2008 01:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
I don't think it would matter. My whole point of having it mounted in the splash well is to keep the chance of a spill towards the outside of the boat. I'm not sure were the gas could go if spilled in that little cubby space, but I would not want to find out.
GreatBayNH posted 02-14-2008 03:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
I think, but can't confirm because my boat is not with me now, that anything that sets in there flows out to the bildge pump. I recall seeing the bildge pump hose run through a hole in the bildge area and thought it looked like water could get in there fairly easily. Or am I off my rocker?
GreatBayNH posted 02-14-2008 03:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
I think this clears up my question.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013027.html

So in the event of a filter leak I could flush out with water. I think a clear hatch cover, for quick inspections from time to time, would help ease the mind though.

Moreover, potential leaks may be avoided if the filter head was protected from the salt sea and air? Just thinking out loud.

Feejer posted 02-14-2008 03:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Yup, just what you want, gas running thru your bilge pump : )
GreatBayNH posted 02-14-2008 08:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
A leak of that magnitude would shut the engine down. I'm not sweating it.
95Outrage17 posted 02-14-2008 11:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for 95Outrage17  Send Email to 95Outrage17     
Hey guys,

Check this out: http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a84/95Outrage17/03%20Montauk%20170/ ?action=view¤t=IMAGE_026.jpg

It's a customer's '03 Montauk 170. We considered mounting it behind the inspection hatch, but decided it was not a good idea. Mounting it in the RPS makes it easy to inspect, drain (water) and change. Plus there's lots of space there. If the RPS contained a large tank, then it might be a problem space wise though.

- Chris

WT posted 02-14-2008 11:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Interesting question regarding the placement of the filter in the open or hidden from view.

I wonder where the fuel filters are located on post-classic Outrages, Conquests and Venturas?

Warren

GreatBayNH posted 02-15-2008 05:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Chris, why did you decide it wasn't a good idea to mount in the insepction hatch? Was it a saftey issue or easy of access? The RPS is a place I considered first but I have upgraded my tanks to larger ones so room is a factor.
swist posted 02-15-2008 08:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for swist  Send Email to swist     
From what I can glean from this forum, most external filters seem to go into the splash well. The accessibility for service, and possible hose replacement, yearly tightening of the fittings etc, is very convenient, and I don't see why you would want to make it harder, possibly much harder.

Do you consider the rigging bundle (not to mention primer bulb) in a random loop through the splash well to be attractive? I don't see how a properly installed filter, whose hoses neatly tie up with the main rigging bundle, makes it any uglier. IMHO, it looks fine.

When you buy an outboard boat, you have committed to having machinery in view. No big deal.

Barney posted 02-15-2008 09:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
My Racor filter started leaking from internal corrosion after a year on the boat. My preference would be to mount in a visable location, unless you routinely check it in the bilge. Jim
GreatBayNH posted 02-15-2008 10:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Warren has had his boat for a number of years. Warren, how's that Quicksilver filter been holding out? Any problems with it. Leakage?

Feejer posted 02-15-2008 10:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
I think this setup look great
[IMG]http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/LPBagi/Whaler/IMG_1594-1.jpg[/IMG]
WT posted 02-15-2008 11:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
Feejer:

That fuel filter install looks great.

GreatBayNH:

MegaBite and I married on 2-28-04 so our 4 year anniversary is coming up soon. She has around 370 hours on her and the fuel filter has been replaced 4 times (at 100 hour intervals and once when initial Pate tank was replaced). So far no leakage from any of the fuel filters.

Here's a picture of my bride. Til death do us part. :-)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/?action=view& current=Warrenfullreso_edited.jpg


Warren

GreatBayNH posted 02-15-2008 05:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
That setup does look pretty sweet Feej. The matching filter to gel-coat color is makes it the money shot.

Warren, I lust over your bride weekly. I strive to add most of the toys you have on your Montauk. I use your site often as a model for what I want to do. This year the trim gauge goes in as well as mounting the hour meter in the dash. I WAY over spent on the hour meter thus it deserves a spot where it can be admired. Plus I can barely read it in the cc. http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i316/srcbell/2007%20Season%20Prep/ ?action=view¤t=NewVHFRadioandHourMeter.jpg

Whilst I'm at it I may as well get a fuel flow gauge which requires a fuel filter before it. Oh, and I think I'm installing a nice 30 X 13 inch access hatch on top of my RPS for easy access to the twin 13 gallon tempos.

-Seth

Feejer posted 02-15-2008 05:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Seth, if you have any free time after your done working on your boat come down and work on mine. : ) I'm glad to hear your going with the fuel flow gauge. Mine arrived yesterday. I do plan on building a hatch to cover the fuel tank where it sticks out of the RPS.
GreatBayNH posted 02-15-2008 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
What did you get for a fuel gauge? Brand/Model
Feejer posted 02-15-2008 06:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Northstar F210 2" Digital Fuel System
GreatBayNH posted 02-15-2008 09:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Where do you plan to install the gauge on the dash? I'm going to start a vertical cluster on the starboard side of the stainless steel destroyer wheel.
95Outrage17 posted 02-15-2008 10:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for 95Outrage17  Send Email to 95Outrage17     
Hi Seth,

We decided it wasn't a good idea to mount it behind the inspection hatch for seveal reasons: difficult to inspect, a closed area with electrical wires (potential for leakage and spark), harder to change the filter (if you even remembered it was there), and I'd rather make permanent holes in the RPS then the splash well.

Feejer's setup does look nice and I'd say it's a good alternative, but it's likely to corrode more quickly (salt water spashing over the stern) and if it leaks, it will drain out of the splash well into the water. The RPS setup could be pumped out if it leaked, but you're likely to catch the leak sooner and it would have to be a large leak or be washed by water in order to get pumped out before you noticed it.

On that '03 170, if they want a full sized tank under the RPS sometime in the future I'll probably have to move the filter to another location. Before I installed the filter I asked them if they would like to make a tank upgrade and they said they're fine with the 6 gal tanks, so I'm not too worried about that. I suppose you could also mount the filter on the backside of the splash well facing the RPS. I've seen a few older Montauks like that.

- Chris

GreatBayNH posted 02-15-2008 11:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
The RPS idea is looking better and better. I'd be using a Mercury fuel filter kit that looks to be samller than the Racors which are nice but may be a little over kill as well as taking up more space.
BlueMax posted 02-16-2008 12:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
The RPS location looks very promising and functional all the way around if you are not going to install a tank that requires the full volume of space below RPS (easily accessable yet quite well hidden).

I don't think mounting anywhere external on RPS is an answer due to getting knocked and bumped by legs and equioment but wonder, if you were to do the set up as Feejer shows, would it be feasible to then build a little plexiglass access box (of sorts) to house and protect it? The plexiglass housing could be glued to the splash wall (or some other marine adhesive) to encase the mounted filter. Even if it had an open bottom for easy access, it would keep a majority of water off, and a PM ritual with WD-40 or some other protectant could aide in prolonging the detrimental residual effects of salt air/spray. Also the case would serve to protect from some routine knocks and bangs it may recieve in the course of "life happens."

Just random thoughts.
Andy

GreatBayNH posted 02-16-2008 07:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Judging fro this image of my tanks I think I may be able to squeeze a Quicksilver/Mercury fuel filter under the RPS, no?
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i316/srcbell/2007%20Season%20Prep/ ?action=view¤t=TempoPBW12Gallon_b.jpg
Feejer posted 02-16-2008 08:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Seth, I'll mount the fuel flow gauge next to the water pressure gauge. As far as the filter goes stick it in the back let mine and you'll be fine. I've must have seen 300-400 other center consoles over the last few years with this same setup. My local BW did the install on mine. They have been installing filters like that for 20 years. Also you guys need to stop worrying about corrosion, mine is made from cast aluminum the only thing that is going to corrode on it over the next 10 years is the filter and that gets change 2X a year. If your really anal about that type of thing wipe some Corrosion X on it. I use it on my motor and trailer.

http://corrosionxproducts.com/

GreatBayNH posted 02-16-2008 02:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Ah, so you're filling the "what shall I put here?" space in the dash of the Montauk 170 with the fuel flow gauge. Nice. I already bought a trim gauge of the same make as the other gauges (Flagship) so she'll be going there with her buddies. I also ran to my Merc dealer in the next city over and got a OEM Mercury Fuel Filter/Water Separator. I'll have to wait for the snow to melt to take the thing out of the box and start eyeballing it in different areas of the boat. There are layers of snowbanks in fron of the old girl right now.

Drilling into the splash well doesn't seem as appealing if I can mount it inside the RPS. Just my opinion de jour.

-Seth

BlueMax posted 02-16-2008 02:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
Seth,

I absolutely Love your set up! I agree with your choice of installing under RPS if it will fit and not puuting holes in the splash well (just peace of mind for me), although if Feejer is happy and it won't corode, that is also a good location especially in the case of leaks, that is where I would want the gas mess and not running on my deck. The Tempo tanks are great and pretty much exactly what I want for ease of removal while having more capacity - are they strapped down individually or together as one? I couldn't really tell. Looks like just a matter of moving the current hardware out a little - or, if strapped as one unit, removing the middle tie downs for the current tanks. I know you've answered that before in some other thread some time ago.

Also, where did you purchase the rod holders? That is also exactly what I am looking for but have not seen locally at Dick's Sporting Good's (or even Wal-mart) etc, Of course, I have not gone to any of the local marinas or the Boater's world in Wilmington (about hour and fifteen away) as yet, then again, I haven't even had the boat a full year yet either so....

(Man - Reading the "you have exactly what I'm looking for" statements - I guess I want your boat. Ha)

Anyway - Beautiful set up - all the best!

GreatBayNH posted 02-16-2008 03:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Thanks BlueMax.

The twin 12 Gallon PBW Tempos are indeed strapped separately. This way I can configure them differently for different runs. I can run one 12 gallon tank (making space for storage under the RPS if you can believe it!), two 12 gallon tanks, one 12 and one 6.6 gallon tank or two 6.6 gallon tanks. Either way I can lift the tanks out and fill at the local gas station without bringing the whole boat with me. Also adds to the redundancy that we all cherish when offshore.

As for the rod holders. They are the West (Worst) Marine specials they advertise for about 20 USD from time to time. Be careful though. After I installed them I read a review on West's site that said they pitted the crap out of SS railings. Sure enough, it’s starting on mine. Do yourself a favor and buy Perko or some better quality brand and save you railing.

-Seth

BlueMax posted 02-17-2008 12:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
Is the pitting caused by the interaction of the metals, or by the design of the clamp? I would thing that maybe you could put some kind of insulator between the clamp and the rail - i.e. a thin rubberized type of weather stripping or even duct tape inside the clamp?

Just thoughts - Appreciate the insight and feedback you always provide.

Andy

GreatBayNH posted 02-17-2008 07:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
West is dumping them now for about 13 USD (Clearance). I read some more bad reviews about corrosion and pitting. You could try to use duct tape to help protect your boat from a flawed product but I for one would not do this to my nice Whaler.
BlueMax posted 02-17-2008 10:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
Well, I was actually thinking of something to put inside the clamp to protect the rail - not on the rail to protect itself from the clamp. I too want to keep my boat as "pristine" (and not "redneck") as possible. I don't mind how goofy I may look on it, but I do care how everything else on it looks. :-)

"Duct tape" was just a throw away thought for something to line the inside of the clamp with to insulate from effects of the clamp. Cheap and easy(and it got thrown away. ha). A rubberized or felt insulator - inside the clamp - would probably work best if one were to use/continue use of the product. Or.... I can just go buy the Perko SS clamp-on rod holder for $35 from Eastern Marine...

Then again - this thread is about the fuel filter, not fishing rod clamps. :-) The weather is breaking back to boating season for me here (it's been in the 60's and is supposed to be mid to upper 60's today [68]) and I'm just getting itchy. I am making arrangements to take the boat within the next 3 weeks to be serviced and prepped for summer (it was winterized mid-December and is near the 100 hr mark anyway). Marine Max owes me a free first 100 hr service for the delivery condition of the boat last year (long story short - it was not prepped in any manner when we went to take delivery).

Seems your filter placement is a good idea and will work well - please keep us posted on the progress and outcome. I also would like to go with the 12 gal tanks and may do the same type filter install at that time - you have an excellent set up and I guess copy-catting is the best form of flattery.

Andy

DLee posted 02-18-2008 12:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for DLee  Send Email to DLee     
Seth, I really like the look of those two twelves in there. Are they each double strapped? Or is the strap in the rear enough to hold the tank comfortably in place?

I imagine getting a full 12 gallon tank over the gunnel isn't the most fun in the world. Or filling the two of them up for that matter!

I like the idea of putting the filter under the RPS too.

Good looking set up. Think I'll steal the rod holder arrangement too. Nice lines.

GreatBayNH posted 02-18-2008 06:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Yes, they are double strapped. Lifting over the gunnel is the hard part, yes, but doable.
Beaner posted 02-18-2008 09:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Beaner  Send Email to Beaner     

I installed a Quicksilver fuel filter on the side of the splashwell where the fuel lines and steering cables come out on a 2003 Montauk 170. I picked that location so I could through-bolt the mount having access inside under the step. Very clean and easy install. Only negative is that the Raycor is too long to fit in this spot. One thing that works is that I catch the gas that spills when I change the filter in the splashwell. Have had it in this spot for over 3 years with no issues. I cannot post pictures but can email if anyone is interested.
GreatBayNH posted 02-18-2008 11:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Thanks Beaner. No picture needed. I can visualize exactly how it's mounted. Thanks!

The jury won't be in until I get on the boat and start placing the filter about in all the discussed locations. I think the splashwell is now a major contender due to ease of access and great location to have a spill.

DLee posted 02-20-2008 05:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for DLee  Send Email to DLee     
Agreed, if you've gotta have a spill, why not in the splashwell.
GreatBayNH posted 02-20-2008 08:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
Isn't some fuel spillage par for the course in a filter change anyway?

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