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Author Topic:   Can a 170 Montauk Flip

teepee848 posted 07-13-2008 06:27 PM ET (US)
I have a 2006 170 Montauk, and we were on the water today in some pretty rough water. I knew it wouldn't sink, but I was wondering if it would flip?
Thanks
Tony
GreatBayNH posted 07-13-2008 06:40 PM ET (US)
Yes.
teepee848 posted 07-13-2008 06:42 PM ET (US)
what do you think it would take?
GreatBayNH posted 07-13-2008 06:44 PM ET (US)
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story. html?id=4a2be1de-baf8-4c89-85a5-473906dc1ce4
Sad but very informative.
teepee848 posted 07-13-2008 06:49 PM ET (US)
Thanks
GreatBayNH posted 07-13-2008 06:50 PM ET (US)
What would it take? A number of factors but my advise would be to slow down to the point you feel you are in control of your vessel. Moreover, make sure you take a boating course to learn how to take waves/swells to minimize the risk.
swist posted 07-13-2008 08:28 PM ET (US)
The broad bow provides a large sail area when pointed into the wind in a bow-high attitude. The boat is also very buoyant, which is good for some things, but it does ride high on the water, particularly when on plane, this makes it even easier for wind/wave to "reach under" the bow and flip it that way.
I think the boat is less likely to flip sideways, but if you broach in a big enough sea, it's clearly possible (as it is with any boat).
teepee848 posted 07-13-2008 08:31 PM ET (US)
I try to keep the bow down for those same reasons. We got soaked today!!!!
andygere posted 07-14-2008 11:19 AM ET (US)
These boats generally have great stability, however if swamped, they become very prone to capsize (as do just about all boats). Beware of this. Taking a few big waves over the bow will not sink you, but the boat will become very unstable as it fills with water, and requires swift action to evacuate the water as quickly as possible. Usually this means powering up quickly, to get the bow up and cause the water to spill out over the transom.
Tohsgib posted 07-14-2008 12:42 PM ET (US)
Go out Barnegat Inlet at 30mph and hit a 6' breaker....you'll be amazed at what it takes to flip one of these after you do it a few hundred times.
Get in a storm and have 50+mph winds...WAAAYYYY different story and scary.
towboater posted 07-14-2008 12:59 PM ET (US)
I have no experiance with a Montauk but Ive owned several small boats that sail. Refs avail.
Im curious if experianced Montauk owners would comment on the effects of trimming the engine in rough water.
Ive found (other boats) that trimming the engine in brings the bow down and cuts into the top of the wave and reduces the lift, sail and bounce factors tho the ride is pretty wet. Of course the wave height and interval are huge factors. Point is, trim can be as much of a asset as speed and angle. Generally one thinks to trim the bow up in rough water but you may be suprised with the results of trimming the bow down. Again, Montauk owners should confirm this one way or another. anyway...experiment.
If you are in conditions that you fear the boat will flip, in addition to slowing down to a safe crawl, also, do not eliminate the option of turning around and going with it (the weather) to any port in a storm.
mk
pglein posted 07-14-2008 02:13 PM ET (US)
Any boat can flip. The question is what happens afterward.
swist posted 07-14-2008 05:01 PM ET (US)
Towboater - the trim angle obviously has an affect on the bow attitude, but mainly at planing speeds. I would think that if the wind and/or waves are serious enough to lift the bow dangerously, you should not be attempting to go at such speed.
While displacement speed is slow and you may get very wet while you get home at least you should get there in one piece.
Kingsteven18 posted 07-14-2008 05:30 PM ET (US)
Most often when a boat flips, it usually blamed on 'that little nut behind the wheel'.
Dave Sutton posted 07-15-2008 08:58 AM ET (US)
Have capsized one.
They float very well that way... ;-)
WD-40 saved the engine and electric system.
The diving gear, on the other hand... well, let's just say it's still in the ocean 'someplace'.
Dave
.
Don88outrage posted 07-15-2008 09:59 AM ET (US)
I watched an 18' Parker flip on to the rocks in Small Point Me., 3 persons on board, fortunately no serious injuries except to the captains future as a lisenced captain and Maine guide. They we're fishing a rocky shore line shore line where the water depth minimized any heavy wave breaking. As they approached a shallow beach area a set of approxametly 3-4 foot breakers caught them broadside and the next thing I saw was 3 people flying through the air. Definately a case of bad judgement by an experienced captain, so, yes, a Montauk, or any boat, could be flipped quite easily if put in the wrong conditions.
teepee848 posted 07-15-2008 11:16 AM ET (US)
Dave, how did you flip yours?

Tony
John OSr posted 07-15-2008 07:18 PM ET (US)
Have owned a Montauk 20 years and out in Bay and Ocean waters Most danger in Inlets and high wind conditions. Bow down trim will help some but you will be wet. I have handled a 50 mph wind, incoming tide leaving the inlet run with water in the Montauk knee high. Comes in over the bow and out the stern. Batteries in the console in tight boxes and a motor that dose'nt stall wet 88hp Johnson commercial outboard. Water leaves as fast as comes in under way. Only works for short time so get out of these conditions ASAP. Watch the third or fourth wave usually big ones. Only turn boat around when timing the wave to avoid taking a side big one. Pray alot and swear never to do it again.!!!!!! P.S. Only come back in the Inlet when it calms down abit.
WT posted 07-15-2008 07:24 PM ET (US)
Also, pray that you do not lose power.
j abrams posted 07-16-2008 03:18 AM ET (US)
Its strange that Toshgib mentioned Barnegat inlet. My 1971 21 foot Outrage was pitched poled near the south jetty when the boat was three years old. Two years later it capsized at Little Beach near Great Bay. The Coast Guard suggested that the owner add hand holds to the bottom if he continued to fish for stripers in those areas.
Dave Sutton posted 07-16-2008 08:27 PM ET (US)
Tony wrote: "Dave, how did you flip yours"
Spearfishing in Plum Gut, Long Island sound. We had a 40 pound fish to bring in, two guys in the boat, and one diver in the water being picked up. Diver grabbed the portside gunwale (we remove the rails on that side for diver entry and exit) and had one hand on the gunwale and another on the fish (IE was pulling down on the gunwale from the water). Two guys in the boat moved to that side to help bring aboard the fish. Took a wave over the transom, partially flooded the boat. Next wave finished the job and then with the unbalanced weight she went right over... in a flash. Fast enough that we were concerned that the diver had been hit and knocked out (he wasn't). Impossible to self-right the thing. Was towed by another boat ashore where we man-handled it upright, dewatered it, did the WD-40 trick in the carbs, started up and went home (sans diving gear save for what the diver in the water was wearing). Fresh water washed the entire thing, electrics included, more WD-40 in all the right places, and never worried about it.

"Unsinkable" is one thing. Once filled with water all stability is gone, and they are just as happy turtle as upright.

Dave
.
jimh posted 07-16-2008 09:13 PM ET (US)
Moved this topic to POST-CLASSIC WHALERS from another area. The POST-CLASSIC WHALERS discussion concentrates on the newer models.
jimh posted 07-16-2008 11:04 PM ET (US)
Re the newspaper article mentioning the upturned Boston Whaler at the Oak Bay Group fishing resort boat the MV MARABELL:
"At the MV Marabell, guests fish from 17’ Boston Whaler Montauk’s with 40 hp, 4-stroke Yamaha motors. These easily maneuverable boats get you to the fishing grounds quickly and provide a stable platform to play that 100 pound halibut."
Source: http://www.mvmarabell.com/fishing/
High wind and wave conditions can overturn a small boat like a Boston Whaler 170 MONTAUK. Here is an account of such an event which I told second hand after hearing it from the captain of a MONTAUK 17 that overturned:
Storm Story: July 17, 2006, Manitoulin Island
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013113.html

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Author	Topic: Can a 170 Montauk Flip
teepee848	posted 07-13-2008 06:27 PM ET (US) I have a 2006 170 Montauk, and we were on the water today in some pretty rough water. I knew it wouldn't sink, but I was wondering if it would flip? Thanks Tony
GreatBayNH	posted 07-13-2008 06:40 PM ET (US) Yes.
teepee848	posted 07-13-2008 06:42 PM ET (US) what do you think it would take?
GreatBayNH	posted 07-13-2008 06:44 PM ET (US) http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story. html?id=4a2be1de-baf8-4c89-85a5-473906dc1ce4 Sad but very informative.
teepee848	posted 07-13-2008 06:49 PM ET (US) Thanks
GreatBayNH	posted 07-13-2008 06:50 PM ET (US) What would it take? A number of factors but my advise would be to slow down to the point you feel you are in control of your vessel. Moreover, make sure you take a boating course to learn how to take waves/swells to minimize the risk.
swist	posted 07-13-2008 08:28 PM ET (US) The broad bow provides a large sail area when pointed into the wind in a bow-high attitude. The boat is also very buoyant, which is good for some things, but it does ride high on the water, particularly when on plane, this makes it even easier for wind/wave to "reach under" the bow and flip it that way. I think the boat is less likely to flip sideways, but if you broach in a big enough sea, it's clearly possible (as it is with any boat).
teepee848	posted 07-13-2008 08:31 PM ET (US) I try to keep the bow down for those same reasons. We got soaked today!!!!
andygere	posted 07-14-2008 11:19 AM ET (US) These boats generally have great stability, however if swamped, they become very prone to capsize (as do just about all boats). Beware of this. Taking a few big waves over the bow will not sink you, but the boat will become very unstable as it fills with water, and requires swift action to evacuate the water as quickly as possible. Usually this means powering up quickly, to get the bow up and cause the water to spill out over the transom.
Tohsgib	posted 07-14-2008 12:42 PM ET (US) Go out Barnegat Inlet at 30mph and hit a 6' breaker....you'll be amazed at what it takes to flip one of these after you do it a few hundred times. Get in a storm and have 50+mph winds...WAAAYYYY different story and scary.
towboater	posted 07-14-2008 12:59 PM ET (US) I have no experiance with a Montauk but Ive owned several small boats that sail. Refs avail. Im curious if experianced Montauk owners would comment on the effects of trimming the engine in rough water. Ive found (other boats) that trimming the engine in brings the bow down and cuts into the top of the wave and reduces the lift, sail and bounce factors tho the ride is pretty wet. Of course the wave height and interval are huge factors. Point is, trim can be as much of a asset as speed and angle. Generally one thinks to trim the bow up in rough water but you may be suprised with the results of trimming the bow down. Again, Montauk owners should confirm this one way or another. anyway...experiment. If you are in conditions that you fear the boat will flip, in addition to slowing down to a safe crawl, also, do not eliminate the option of turning around and going with it (the weather) to any port in a storm. mk
pglein	posted 07-14-2008 02:13 PM ET (US) Any boat can flip. The question is what happens afterward.
swist	posted 07-14-2008 05:01 PM ET (US) Towboater - the trim angle obviously has an affect on the bow attitude, but mainly at planing speeds. I would think that if the wind and/or waves are serious enough to lift the bow dangerously, you should not be attempting to go at such speed. While displacement speed is slow and you may get very wet while you get home at least you should get there in one piece.
Kingsteven18	posted 07-14-2008 05:30 PM ET (US) Most often when a boat flips, it usually blamed on 'that little nut behind the wheel'.
Dave Sutton	posted 07-15-2008 08:58 AM ET (US) Have capsized one. They float very well that way... ;-) WD-40 saved the engine and electric system. The diving gear, on the other hand... well, let's just say it's still in the ocean 'someplace'. Dave .
Don88outrage	posted 07-15-2008 09:59 AM ET (US) I watched an 18' Parker flip on to the rocks in Small Point Me., 3 persons on board, fortunately no serious injuries except to the captains future as a lisenced captain and Maine guide. They we're fishing a rocky shore line shore line where the water depth minimized any heavy wave breaking. As they approached a shallow beach area a set of approxametly 3-4 foot breakers caught them broadside and the next thing I saw was 3 people flying through the air. Definately a case of bad judgement by an experienced captain, so, yes, a Montauk, or any boat, could be flipped quite easily if put in the wrong conditions.
teepee848	posted 07-15-2008 11:16 AM ET (US) Dave, how did you flip yours? Tony
John OSr	posted 07-15-2008 07:18 PM ET (US) Have owned a Montauk 20 years and out in Bay and Ocean waters Most danger in Inlets and high wind conditions. Bow down trim will help some but you will be wet. I have handled a 50 mph wind, incoming tide leaving the inlet run with water in the Montauk knee high. Comes in over the bow and out the stern. Batteries in the console in tight boxes and a motor that dose'nt stall wet 88hp Johnson commercial outboard. Water leaves as fast as comes in under way. Only works for short time so get out of these conditions ASAP. Watch the third or fourth wave usually big ones. Only turn boat around when timing the wave to avoid taking a side big one. Pray alot and swear never to do it again.!!!!!! P.S. Only come back in the Inlet when it calms down abit.
WT	posted 07-15-2008 07:24 PM ET (US) Also, pray that you do not lose power.
j abrams	posted 07-16-2008 03:18 AM ET (US) Its strange that Toshgib mentioned Barnegat inlet. My 1971 21 foot Outrage was pitched poled near the south jetty when the boat was three years old. Two years later it capsized at Little Beach near Great Bay. The Coast Guard suggested that the owner add hand holds to the bottom if he continued to fish for stripers in those areas.
Dave Sutton	posted 07-16-2008 08:27 PM ET (US) Tony wrote: "Dave, how did you flip yours" Spearfishing in Plum Gut, Long Island sound. We had a 40 pound fish to bring in, two guys in the boat, and one diver in the water being picked up. Diver grabbed the portside gunwale (we remove the rails on that side for diver entry and exit) and had one hand on the gunwale and another on the fish (IE was pulling down on the gunwale from the water). Two guys in the boat moved to that side to help bring aboard the fish. Took a wave over the transom, partially flooded the boat. Next wave finished the job and then with the unbalanced weight she went right over... in a flash. Fast enough that we were concerned that the diver had been hit and knocked out (he wasn't). Impossible to self-right the thing. Was towed by another boat ashore where we man-handled it upright, dewatered it, did the WD-40 trick in the carbs, started up and went home (sans diving gear save for what the diver in the water was wearing). Fresh water washed the entire thing, electrics included, more WD-40 in all the right places, and never worried about it. "Unsinkable" is one thing. Once filled with water all stability is gone, and they are just as happy turtle as upright. Dave .
jimh	posted 07-16-2008 09:13 PM ET (US) Moved this topic to POST-CLASSIC WHALERS from another area. The POST-CLASSIC WHALERS discussion concentrates on the newer models.
jimh	posted 07-16-2008 11:04 PM ET (US) Re the newspaper article mentioning the upturned Boston Whaler at the Oak Bay Group fishing resort boat the MV MARABELL: "At the MV Marabell, guests fish from 17’ Boston Whaler Montauk’s with 40 hp, 4-stroke Yamaha motors. These easily maneuverable boats get you to the fishing grounds quickly and provide a stable platform to play that 100 pound halibut." Source: http://www.mvmarabell.com/fishing/ High wind and wave conditions can overturn a small boat like a Boston Whaler 170 MONTAUK. Here is an account of such an event which I told second hand after hearing it from the captain of a MONTAUK 17 that overturned: Storm Story: July 17, 2006, Manitoulin Island http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013113.html