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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Montauk 190 vs. Edgewater 188
|Author||Topic: Montauk 190 vs. Edgewater 188|
posted 07-24-2009 06:12 AM ET (US)
I am a long time lurker who has enjoyed reading all that I can about the 190 Montauk. I have been a sailor for a few years, but my wife really wants a powerboat and my three young kids(3, 5 and 7) want to do water sports and go tubing,fishing, exploring on the Chesapeake Bay where we live.
I am drawn to Boston Whaler boats due to their long history and fond memories of bouncing around in chop on my grandfather's small boat when I was a kid.
Realizing that every boat is a compromise, we'd love something that is is a good all-around boat: reasonably fuel efficient, safe, with seating and room for as many people as possible including my parents (whose house we will keep the boat at), friends, cousins, etc. The 190 Montauk seems to fit our needs pretty well. I am not yet a fisherman though I can see giving that a go for sure.
I have not been on a whole lot of powerboats for comparison, but it seems like they crammed a lot of boat into the Montauk. My wife felt a little exposed when we rode on it, but to me it felt like freedom though I did appreciate all the stainless grab rails.
Of course, I also learned about Edgewater Boats from this site and the link(former) with Bob Doughtery. We checked out and went for a test ride on the Edgewater 188, and we were quite taken with that one as well. I daresay it has a little nicer fit and finish- more polished latch mechanisms, nice vinyl seats, etc. The ride was smooth in chop though honestly I am too much of a novice to really know. It feels very different from sailing and even in pretty decent chop on both test ride days I never felt uncomfortable and the kids enjoyed bouncing over waves.
My wife and I are now trying to decide between these two fine boats. I will say that I think we'd get the Montauk with the Verado engine as we'll likely always have a fair number of people on board and would like to do water sports. Other people have recommended perhaps a bigger boat if we really plan to bring another family along, but I believe we'll use the boat more the smaller and less expensive/easier it is to use and maintain. The 190 already seems huge to me.
We like both dealers and both are family businesses who seem to love what they do and will hopefully weather this economic downturn and be around for a long time. We tried ranking the two boats based on all sorts of thing from engine impressions, to seating, features, etc. It may boil down simply to the Montauk being a little bigger inside and having one more person capacity (8 vs 7). My kids are pretty small at this point but they won't stay so for long. I also don't see keeping this boat for less than ten years and would like something we won't "outgrow". We'd probably be very happy on a late model lightly used 190 Montauk though I imagine those are hard to come by, especially given the brief existence of the 135 Verado option. Many have suggested we start with a older boat, and while I certainly understand the reasoning (it worked well with our twenty year old new-to-use sailboat), I don't have the time or inclination to fiddle with an older motor and would like the fuel efficiency and quietness, as well as the warranty of a new four stroke. Besides, we live in a 100 year old house and have enough projects to keep me busy.
Thanks in advance for any opinions. I have truly appreciated and enjoyed reading many of the comments on this site, and I would value your opinion.
posted 07-24-2009 06:46 AM ET (US)
Both are very good boats and each have their plusses and minuses. The Montauk will likely be have a somewhat rougher ride in real choppy seas than the Edgewater 188, however, the Whaler Montauk is a great all around boat that will serve you well and although a little bumpy will have no problem handling choppy seas.
Fit and finish is a wash in my opinion, both boats are good. The Montauk will have more room for you and the kids. The Verado motor on the Whaler gets excellent reviews as does the Yamaha on the Edgewater.
As far as the dealerships are concerned I hope both survive and they probably will. If they do not, which manufacturer do you think is financially stronger, Whaler or Edgewater. I think I would prefer my chances with Brunswick owning Whaler.
One last thought. I'll bet the Whaler you remember as a kid is still in service!
Good luck with your decision, keep us posted.
posted 07-24-2009 07:01 AM ET (US)
All good thoughts.
In fact, my grandfather's whaler is still on the creek where it started thirty plus years ago. He is now in a retirement home, and my mom is trying to repurchase the boat which he sold/gave to a neighbor perhaps ten years ago.
posted 07-24-2009 07:29 AM ET (US)
Your comparing apples to oranges. The 188 is a V hull, you should compare it to the Outrage 190. I also checked out the 188 back in February before I bought my Dauntless 180. I have to agree with you that the fit and finish of the Edgewater seemed slightly better than the Dauntless. With that said I purchased the Dauntless for 2 reasons. 1st it is a more "family" friendly boat. Second, I wanted a verado with DTS and Smart Craft. Edgewater at that time did not offer Mercury and even though their was a possibility of getting a bare boat from the factory it sound like it was going to be a pain in the ass. The BW dealer also offered me 4K more for my trade in.
posted 07-24-2009 07:30 AM ET (US)
Where are you located?
posted 07-24-2009 08:19 AM ET (US)
Fair comments regarding apples to oranges. I suppose I had ruled out the Outrage for decreased fuel economy relative to the Montauk and perhaps less family friendly seating. I hadn't really considered the Dauntless perhaps because I have heard less about it. It looks like a more expensive boat even factoring in the Verado upgrade, and I fear the price creep upwards. Already, mid 30's seems like a lot to spend on anything.
I am located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. The dealers I have met with are on Kent Island.
posted 07-24-2009 09:44 AM ET (US)
To Feejer's point.
We looked at the Edgewater line of boats, specifically the 188. The Edgewaters are very nice.
After considerable thought we ended up purchasing a new Boston Whaler Outrage 190. We felt the 190 would be better than the Montauk when used in the Gulf. We also felt Whaler was a stronger brand than Edgewater.
posted 07-24-2009 01:16 PM ET (US)
It all comes down to what you are predominantly going to use your boat for and how much you want to pay.
Since you are not a fisherman why are you looking at fishing boats? Whalers are among the most expensive boats out there foot for foot. I don’t know how they compare with Edgewater boats, but I’m assuming they are expensive too.
If price is important, why not look at a runabout? Sea Ray comes to mind as good, quality boat and I’m sure there are many others. For example, with a Sea Ray you can get a little bigger and much more family friendly boat, in terms of seating and water sports, for less money I suspect. They don’t make good fishing boats though, but many people fish off them. If you take care of them they will last, but they aren’t up to the rigors of rough offshore boating on a regular basis especially in salt water.
To me, Whalers are in a class all there own. For lack of a better term, I consider Whalers to be ‘expedition’ boats. Whalers come into there own when the sh*t hits the fan and/or when you have to abuse it. With Whalers, it’s all about the hull. Due to its construction, the hull is virtually indestructible. You will see many twenty year old, or older, harshly used whalers on a regular basis. You really can’t say that about any other brand of small boat. Add to that the fact that the boat won’t sink. With these two factors, you have the makings of a boat that you confidently take out in the roughest conditions on a regular basis and not give it a second thought. Toughness and safety are the hallmarks of a Whaler. The hull shape further takes advantage of those two characteristics. It seems they are designed for really rough water. They are very stable in any kind of sea state and offer great sea keeping abilities in all directions. They excel in following seas, beam seas and yet offer a decent head sea ride, at least the outrage series. Whalers are so tough and safe, out here in the Pacific, folks routinely take 17 Montauks way off shore in less than ideal conditions. If those are the qualities you are looking for, get the Whaler.
Edgewaters are probably in the same class as Whalers, but as of yet, they haven’t been around long enough to amass the same track record for durability. The hull design is similar, but the smaller Edgewaters don’t have the whaler “smirk” which serves to resist stuffing the bow which is probably more important out here in the Pacific than in your neck of the woods. Even the new 220 Whaler Outrage has minimized its smirk which makes it look more susceptible to bow stuffing, but probably helps the head sea ride. Not a plus for my neck of the woods. Both new Whalers and Edgewaters seem to be designed more for east coast conditions which seem to have more chop, but less swell.
posted 07-24-2009 01:40 PM ET (US)
Go with a Bayliner...to many it is the best boat they ever owned...until they drowned. :)
Kidding aside I looked at all the new boats back in the 90's. Edgewater was just out after they changed it from Marlin. Regulator and Contender were resonably newcomers as well but you see where they are today, along with Edgewater. I actually wound up buying a Hydra-Sports and I strongly urge you to look at them as well. Between the Montauk and the 188 you really need to compare it to the Outrage or Dauntless. Personally I would go used, especially in this market. As far as either of them staying in business, Edgewater would be my guess for staying alive. BC can and will close down brands or plants to stay alive so who knows where Whaler might wind up. They sold Mako did'nt they? Either boat I am sure you will be happy with so go with what fits your needs, your wallet, and has a good dealer that will survive this economy as well.
Lastly I would also be inclined to buy the used Montauk on this site with the 2009 E-Tec on it. Older hull and not quite the boat as a 190 but for $10,900 you can get a handle on things for a few years and have the efficiency and warranty you seek. There are used 190's out there.
posted 07-24-2009 03:07 PM ET (US)
Good point about the used Montauk tohsgib makes above. It looks like a great deal and another plus is that you won't lose nearly as much on the re-sale when you outgrow the boat in a couple years...and you will.
|L H G||
posted 07-24-2009 03:20 PM ET (US)
I would not get a Whaler, because you will be stuck with a Mercury 4-stroke engine. Get the Edgewater, and you can have "choice", and get an Evinrude 2-stroke E-tec installed instead. Just don't ask where the oil goes!
posted 07-24-2009 03:47 PM ET (US)
Since when did Edgewater off a "Choice"? The deal I had with Edgewater never happened because I did not really have a choice. I guess if I pushed the dealer hard enough he could have ordered a bare boat.
If your looking for an all around family fun boat take a look at Chapperals. The SSI 196 is a great bow rider.
posted 07-24-2009 03:50 PM ET (US)
In this economy, I'd saddle up the truck and find a solid used boat. There is an excellent 17' Outrage with 135 OptiMax in White Lake Michigan on this site for $16,500. That would make an excellent boat for your uses. I've been tempted by that one - what a sweetheart! I realize that you don't want engine projects, but modern outboards - especially Great Lakes freshwater motors - are lasting a long time and proving to be very reliable. The OptiMax by all accounts is an excellent motor with outstanding fuel economy.
Something to consider...
posted 07-24-2009 06:07 PM ET (US)
Ha, many good thoughts here and certainly things I have considered with used boats, non-Whalers, etc. I just can't get myself to come around to a bowrider even if is a good match for what we want to do. I like diveorfish's comments about Whalers being expedition boats and with safety in mind with three young kids I am a sucker for the unsinkable part. Of course, my wife and I need to become capable captains and when the weather is snotty we won't venture out with the kids. My kids loved bouncing in the chop on a test and if it gets really rough, we'll slow down and return to port. For us, the boat is really about fun, exploring, trying to keep it as safe as possible, and keeping the risk of headaches/hassles to a minimum.
I think if the right model used Whaler was local to me with a new engine I'd jump on it. Truth is I've already devoted too much time to looking already, and my family is growing leery of the search. I am afraid the 17 Montauk would already be small for some of that what we want to use it for (bringing another family along) . I agree that re-powered 17 with E-tec looks like a bargain. Someone should grab that up quickly.
When I take a beating with depreciation over the first few years it will at least be more fun than watching my 401(k) value plummet last year;)
Truly, I think we'll have the boat for a long, long time and the simple, but ginormous for a 19-footer Montauk will hopefully serve us well. I guess that's where we are leaning.
posted 07-24-2009 07:18 PM ET (US)
Well you can’t go wrong with a Montauk 190. Now is the best time to buy a boat. You might even be able to find a new left over 2008 and get an even better discount. Since I haven’t shopped for a boat in a long time what are they asking for a Montauk 190 and the Edegewater 188 these days?
The Montauk 190 has some advantages over the Edgewater. The seating arrangement is much better. The Whaler site shows a stern seat option directly in line behind the RPS. That is worth its weight in gold. Two can sit there and be out of the wind because it is being blocked by the console and RPS. People sitting there will remain a lot drier and more comfortable then anyone sitting in aft corner seats in a quartering sea.
The Montauk 190 has much thinner gunwales and a wider bow to maximize deck space making it roomier than the Edgewater. In a 19 foot boat that becomes important.
Also the V on the Montauk is much deeper than the older classic ones. the broad bow kind of obscues just how deep it is. I would bet that the ride is not all that different from the Edgewater or even the 190 Outrage. The published drafts are the same.
posted 07-24-2009 07:20 PM ET (US)
You and your family will create many fantastic memories on your Montauk 190.
posted 07-24-2009 11:05 PM ET (US)
I just finished my first yr with my 190. My wife and I love it. It is a little more work then our old 17 but worth it. Rides great, lot's of space. My only beef is the Merc 115. It's does not have the pep my 17 had with a Johnson 90. I am in the process of selling this motor and slapping on an Evinrude E-Tec 150. The 150 will way less then my current engine with more power and way below the transom wt limit. Go for it you will love it. Fred
posted 07-24-2009 11:29 PM ET (US)
If you can afford a new, or lightly used, Montauk 190, then go for it.
Reading that you have a young family, and a 100 year old house, I think you will appreciate the ease of use, ease of maintenance, and the fuel economy.
The boat is huge, and is perfect for family cruising.
I agree with your statement that you will use it more if it is easy and cost effective to use.
Good luck whatever you decide.
posted 07-24-2009 11:48 PM ET (US)
You are not going to "stuff" the bow on either a Montauk or Outrage 190 in anything that would not stuff it on a "classic" as both boats have huge forward volume and as lot of flare.
The Edgewater 188 looks and measures so close to an Outage 190 that you would think they cloned it and it is a nice boat as is the Outrage 190, both are more capable than the Montauk 190 in rough water, however, given your stated needs the Montauck 190 with a Verado 135 looks like the deal for you. BTW, the Montauck 190, Edgewater 188 or Outrage 190 with the same engine will have nearly equal fuel economy, my bet is the Montauck would be a skosh better than either the Edgewater ro Outrage. We get excellent fuel economy and performance with the older Opti powered Nantucket/Outrage 190.
Good luck, get the Montauk, you will like it I betcha.
posted 07-25-2009 01:05 AM ET (US)
The 190 Montauk is a large safe boat.
It's got classic lines & will age well.
Get one with a Verado 135 & don't look back.
posted 07-25-2009 05:28 AM ET (US)
Thanks to all for the reassuring replies and the many thoughts and suggestions.
I'd like to post experiences (after we've had some) as to me firsthand experiences were invaluable to helping to learn more about various boats.
posted 07-25-2009 12:23 PM ET (US)
I purchased a 190 MT last year and I love it. The 115 performs well with 2 guys on the boat, but add a 3rd and it feels a little underpowered. Another thing to consider when comparing the EW to the Montauk is the freeboard and how high the gunnel comes. I haven't done the comparison but assume the EW or any of the other boats mentioned put more gunnel between you and the ocean. I don't think its a safety concern under most conditions but you might get a little wet with some average chop and wind going just the right way. I'm thinking the 190 MT is the lowest profile of all the (nice) boats mentioned.
posted 07-26-2009 10:57 AM ET (US)
Rick, Good point on the cockpit depth which is substantial on the EW (24 inches vs 19 on MT). I do like the stainless grabrails in the MT with the kids though they are better protected I guess in the bow of the EW. The effect is one of feeling more enclosed/protected but the boat feels more congested with more people.
Some other observations... I like the look of the EW leaning post but I wasn't quite sure how comfortable it would be in the long run. I felt extended forward trying to sit and drive and yet while standing there wasn't a lot of material to actually lean on. The MT seat seemed a little more utilitarian but perhaps more comfortable.
As far as handling goes, I liked the throttle control and steering with the verado though I'm sure the EW was nice too. Just a different feeling. It seemed to be harder to steer to port on the EW. The MT felt a little more stable laterally I assume due to the deeper V of the EW. The EW did cut through the chop a little better but I would say at least to this newb that the rides were far more similar than they were different.
The EW console is massive inside. We could put a kid or two inside for a "time out" though a port a pottie would be a more realistic option. These are the random things I noticed. Perhaps others would notice different things. In the end it probably comes full circle to memories of bouncing around on my GF's whaler as a kid and I guess BW banks on those memories. I think EW is doing great things though and there attention to detail with quality hardware latches and fit and finish overall is impressive.
posted 07-26-2009 11:39 AM ET (US)
Someone mentioned this comparison is apples to oranges, I agree. The local EW dealer told me he couldn't compete with the 190 MT because of it's price point. I bought my MT without all the goodies and upgrades so the price difference was substantial compared to the EW 18.8. If you are interested in a loaded 190 MT and, these boats come closer in price, I think the EW should get some very serious consideration. What's the price difference between the loaded 190 MT and the 19 Outrage? If you take price out of the mix, I would have gone with the EW or Outrage. They're just more substantial boats. Also, don't let railings be your deciding factor. You can add those later. I love my Montauk but I don't like the idea of buying a boat with a base price and then doubling it with options and extras.
Sounds to me like you really like the whaler.
posted 07-26-2009 10:03 PM ET (US)
Specs for EW188:
The Outrage 190 is 18 feet 10 and a full 8.0 feet beam, 12 inches draft (18 degree deadrise, weight 2,050 pounds, fuel capacity 60 gallons, freeboard 22 inches plus a larger console, removable port seat for fish fighting, oh, and Whaler sturdiness and flotation in excess of "level" flotation.
posted 07-26-2009 10:05 PM ET (US)
Oh, and when you push the Outrage 190, it does not rattle like the Edgewater 188.
posted 07-27-2009 12:52 PM ET (US)
Does the Edgewater 188 rattle for real? I wouldn’t be surprised even though they are foam filled also.
Before I bought my Whaler, I went salmon fishing in the ocean a couple of times on a two year old Wellcraft 18ft. Fisherman. (It is a center console that looks somewhat like the Outrage 190) The folks in this clique I was with considered Wellcraft fishing boats to be of good quality; better than Seaswirl Strippers, Trophys and Prolines, etc. Another guy in this group had a Wellcraft 23 Coastal as well, so they were high on Wellcraft.
Anyway, when I went fishing in the ocean on that 18 ft. Wellcraft, it was a little lumpy that day. The captain/owner of Wellcraft 18 was really babying the boat, as we went out in the slop looking for salmon, because he said “he didn’t want to wear out the hull.” It was actually good advice for that boat because every time we went over a wave and came down, it would pound, but the hull would flex and make lots of echoing and rattling type noises. It almost sounded like the boat was coming apart. You definitely don’t have that problem with a Whaler. You can run a Whaler like heck and not hurt the hull. The Whaler has a nice solid sound when it comes down off a wave. It is also very quiet.
posted 07-27-2009 01:37 PM ET (US)
Good luck with your new 190, I hope your getting the 135
posted 07-27-2009 10:56 PM ET (US)
It is not just the rattling and buzzing that you don't get in a Whaler but also that disturbing shimmy you feel that travels through the hull when the boats comes down hard, you simply don't feel that in a Whaler.
posted 08-03-2009 09:20 AM ET (US)
Like you, I've been lurking around here for quite awhile to learn what I can. This year I upgraded from my 2006 Outrage 190 to a new 2008 230 Dauntless. It sounds like you may like to use the boat a bit like I do, though I do go big lake fishing for steelhead and salmon.
Something to consider:
Also, don't forget to look for new but unsold 2008 BW boats now that the season is ending. I purchased my 230 Dauntless at a substanial reduction in price.
posted 08-03-2009 02:22 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the thoughts on the passenger capacity. I had assumed (incorrectly it seems) that the total weight capacity was more important than the total number of people on board. My young family of five weighs about 410 pounds combined so I thought we'd have plenty of weight room for more people. I thought the most we might ever have aboard (assuming we invited another family of two adults and two kids) is nine people. This of course would just be puttering around on calm water in a sheltered creek.
I had thought with a small total weight that this wouldn't be a problem but please let me know if this thought is incorrect. That definitely makes the seven passenger rated EW 188 less appealing purely from a practical people lounging standpoint.
In defense of the EW boat it felt every bit as solid as the whaler though I know it isn't filled with as much foam.
Rich, I hear you on your price comments and comparison of Montauk to Outrage to EW. I think both the OR and EW are fancier and more slightly more capable in snotty conditions and may perhaps be better values. When you add in the upgrade cost of the 135 Verado then the price becomes very similar to the EW though I think still a bit less than the Outrage. That being said, I can readily recognize the simple, versatile utility of the Montauk, especially with the passenger capacity and generous room aboard. It seems to be the better boat for us right now.
posted 08-03-2009 02:49 PM ET (US)
Take another look at the Dauntless 180. You'll find as much room in that as the MT 190. More useable room to boot. The rear seat opens up to a ton of storage under it.
posted 08-03-2009 04:06 PM ET (US)
I don't know about the boating laws on the Chesapeake, but the USCG and the State of Michigan both can enforce capacity plate limits. It is interesting because boats over 20 feet don't need a capacity plate by law but if your boat has one (like my 230 Dauntless) it can be enforced.
[Under the U.S. Coast Guard Federal Boat Safety Act of 1971, boats less than 20 feet powered with an inboard, outboard, or stern drive engine manufactured after November 1, 1972, must display a capacity plate defining the safe load limits. ]
Anyway, in the Great Lakes (with USCG enforcement) and with Michigan state and local law enforcement, the capacity plates can be enforced for "maximum persons" if listed, even if the total weight is less than listed! I've attached a link to BOATED site that the Michigan DNR uses for boat license examination. It clearly states both the total weight limit and the maximum persons limit need to be adhered to.
Anyway, I know that a lot of people don't worry about these things, but I don't want to be cited for what is in effect a safety violation. Safety is one of the main reasons I have a Whaler in the first place!
posted 08-03-2009 04:18 PM ET (US)
As an update,I just called the USCG and my state's DNR law enforcement division. They both said that they can enforce the maximum persons capacity even if the total weight is less than the weight capacity on the plate. Obviously, my curiosity is selfish since I have the same issue with my 230 Dauntless. I have a high capacity for weight yet I'm only allowed to have 9 people based on the capacity plate. I have plenty of room on the boat for more people, especially since some of them are kids. Too bad. -Shyam
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