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Author Topic:   190 OUTRAGE For First-time Boater

mullethead posted 08-26-2009 09:56 AM ET (US)
First time on continuouswave. Thanks to all for really great info. After much pleading from my family (wife and 4 kids) I am finally ready to [buy] a small versatile boat for the kids to fish and ski. I am pretty well decided on a Boston Whaler. I've been looking around for about 2 months and have come across a new leftover 2008 190 Outrage with the T-top, trailer, 150 Verado, trim tabs, and fishing package for $29,900. I have two basic questions. Is the Outrage 190 a reasonable option for my needs, and is this a reasonable price (which it seems to be)? Any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks!
Buckda posted 08-26-2009 10:05 AM ET (US)
[A 190 OUTRAGE] is an excellent boat, and a great first Whaler for a small family - but with 6 persons on board, you will feel crowded fast - and as your kids grow up (and they grow FAST) you will quickly become uncomfortably crowded for all except evening sunset cruises.
IF you are using this from a summer cottage, where persons stay ashore and you use the boat in "shifts" - i.e. skiing, fishing with a few at a time, you have a winner.
If you will trailer and launch the boat and use it where there is no shore-based "base camp", then you will be very crowded.
Pricing boats today is perhaps one of the most difficult tasks. I'm sure the dealer is likely breaking even or even losing money on the deal (being a leftover from better times in the industry - it was probably delivered in late 2007).
BUT - you can buy a LOT of used boat for $30,000 right now. There are guys who are literally abandoning ship, and there are banks that own boats right now and want to dump them. I'd first identify 2 or 3 models of boat that you like and then begin to look around at what is out there for slightly used products.
Just my opinion. I wish I had extra cash laying around right now because I'd have a very nice boat in my driveway due to this recession...
Scott Grey posted 08-26-2009 10:32 AM ET (US)
I have had the same setup minus the tabs for three years now. Great all around boat for inshore and offshore. The more I use it the more I like it. We are going out Labor Day weekend scalloping and will have a full boat of snorkelers so the swim platform will get lots of use.
alfred posted 08-26-2009 11:06 AM ET (US)
That is a great price! It's one great boat, but having said that, if I could I would get one of the larger ones, like a late 205 or even the new 235 Conquest.
If you fish two up you cant beat it, but if you have more then two and gear, it starts to get crowded real fast.
The up side is that it is easy to tow, launch and recover. You can beach it with no dramas and the shallow drafts makes it very easy to get off the beach.
The little swim platform/ladder is easy to use and even my youngest one has no issues climbing back up when we anchor and have a dip.
20dauntless posted 08-26-2009 01:15 PM ET (US)
We've got six in our family as well. We have two boats, a 1996 20 Dauntless (like the Ventura) for the lake near our house and a 22 C-Dory for the cabin. I'd seriously look into a Ventura for your uses. They are an excellent fish and ski boats and have a lot more seating than the center consoles do. I agree with others though, six people on any boat this size for a whole day on the water is probably going to be too cramped.
muskrat posted 08-26-2009 01:20 PM ET (US)
I agree that is a great price for that boat with those options. I baught one this spring, though a few years older and we are really liking it. I would call it the perfect little big boat. Plenty of room for my family of 5, two of which being under 45 lbs however.
divedoctors posted 08-26-2009 07:31 PM ET (US)
mullethead- I brought a new 2006 190 Outrage and Verado 150 and loved it for the past three years. It was a great boat. However, it got small quickly. This summer I upgraded to a leftover new 2008 230 Dauntless. It's been the best boating decision I've made.
The price you're getting is a very good deal. My trade in value for the 190 Outrage was not much less than that. You won't find a new boat deal that is much better.
Not trivializing the cost difference between the Outrage and Dauntless, I must say the performance and comfort difference in the boats is substantial. I use the boat to wakeboard and ski, and salmon and steelhead fish on Lake Michigan. I don't trailer the boat, but both are easily trailerable (based on my few launches and loadings that I've done solo). The reason I mention all of this is to recommend that you seriously consider how you want to use the boat- you'll certainly need a bigger boat with more room and power. I'd take the $30,000 and try to find a used Dauntless 220 or 200 from a few years ago - they're probably better suited to your needs. They'll ski better and they are bigger.
Unless you really need the Outrage's greater deadrise for dealing with rougher seas (relative to boats of the same LOA), the Dauntless is probably a better boat for you. Also, I wasn't impressed with the Outrage's time to plane with a full load (4-5 people). The 150 will be somewhat disappointing if you want to get on plane quickly with a skier. It'll be OK with a wakeboarder. Do you have a ski-pylon? It is a must.
I'm in Germany this week, so I'm keeping this short. When I return, I can get you more information on the 190 Outrage if you are still interested.
Hopefully, I can steer you away from the 190 and then finding yourself upgrading a few years later (like I did). -Shyam
Yiddil posted 08-26-2009 08:13 PM ET (US)
BUy IT!! One of ther best Darn boats youl ever get for that price...then get the bow dodger, front lounge, bimini top canvas from mills and a mooring cover, some Nice Garmin set up and some music and youl never want to leave that thing)) My Best< Henry AKA THE YIDDIL
Sal A posted 08-26-2009 08:33 PM ET (US)
I have traded boats like they were baseball cards. From a 160 Ventura on up and back down. I have owned this boat. I second Henry. Buy it.
JoeyP posted 08-26-2009 09:45 PM ET (US)
Holy B-jesus! $29,900.00 for a NEW 2008 Leftover with 0 Hours with all those options. BUY it and enjoy.
pennstater posted 08-26-2009 10:45 PM ET (US)
Holy cow, that deal sounds too good to pass up. I bought a 2005 (150 engine) based on recomendations from this board and haven't been disappointed. With all that said, I am looking to get a larger boat (looking at a 21' conquest) as I could really use a cubby cabin to get the little kids out of the sun.
Kencvit posted 08-27-2009 02:05 AM ET (US)
If you put a Mills forward shelter on this boat as I and others have...you add a whole new dimension to the 190.
Mine is almost always up but drops guickly for fishing.
I`m often travelling with 3-4 ten year old kids and the shelter keeps them outa the wind and all their stuff (towels,snacks, pillows,jackets) from blowing out of the boat.
I was out last week with five kids and all stayed dry when we were caught in a rain storm on a 10 mile trip. I was soaked at the helm.
We often travel with six , sometimes 8... but 6 is an ideal max, three on the bow cushion, one on the cooler seat and 2 at the helm.
I never use the rear quarter seats and don`t like the low backrests and with the heavy verado you don`t want the weight back there anyway.
Many here say the trim tabs are a graet option and I will add them at some point. I have a Yamaha F150 with 450 hrs hrs that has been flawless.
Moe posted 08-27-2009 07:26 AM ET (US)
There's no doubt in my mind the 190 Outrage is better offshore than the 170 Montauk, but I was shocked at how cramped the 190 Nantucket felt with just two aboard--in my opinion, no more roomy than the 170 Montauk. The qualities that make the former better offshore make it less well-suited to pulling tubes, skier's etc (deeper-V, less lift).
As others have recommended, I'd look for a larger boat for six, such as the 220 Dauntless with 225HP.
Nushlie posted 08-27-2009 08:32 AM ET (US)
Gentlemen & Ladies:
If one wants to buy a relatively small boat that can be used to navigate inland lakes, the great lakes, and the oceans, the Outrage 190 is an excellent choice.
Nushlie
SJUAE posted 08-27-2009 11:43 AM ET (US)
30K with all those options and versatility, but it and enjoy.
Regards
Steve
florida1098 posted 08-27-2009 12:02 PM ET (US)
Had a 15 foot 150 sport and upgraded to a 2007 190 outrage, in January this year. (leftover). I paid $27,000 w/ 135 verado bimini and no electrics. had it 5 months, fished with a total of 3 aboard and found it waaay too small and cramped. Dealer offered me $14,000 as a trade in and ended up with a 23 footer which is comfortable, not great though. That 19, which is a small 19, actually not even, will be too small for your needs. Either find a used older larger boat or finance slightly more and get something you can stay with.
mullethead posted 08-28-2009 07:11 AM ET (US)
Thanks to all for really valuable information. Lots of great points made on both sides. I should mention that I originally had a Dauntless in mind, but when this opportunity came up, it caught my eye. I feel like value wise, this is too good an offer to pass up right now. If I do decide to trade up in a couple of years, I hope to be able to recoup a significant portion of my investment in trade in value. Basically, I look at it as a win-win. Kids don't know about it yet. I hope to surprise them next week. I'll keep you posted along the way. Thanks again too all for their input!
Nushlie posted 08-28-2009 10:58 AM ET (US)
Mullet:
Your kids will love the boat, great surprise.
Nushlie
Brian7son posted 08-28-2009 03:32 PM ET (US)
Mullet,
I agree with numerous prior posts that it's a great boat and a good price. However, my concern as others have stated, is the size. It may not suit your particular needs.
You did not state the ages of your kids. However, even if they are small, 6 of you on a 19 will get crowded fast.
Have you taken your wife and all 4 kids to the dealership and all climbed on the boat at the same time and milled around for a while yet? It's a good idea to try that.
I know that having a brand new boat is extremely appealing. However, Buckda makes an excellent point. Right now you can almost steal some very nice gently used boats. $30K will buy you a lot of boat in the used markety right now.
Go to traderonline.com and nose around in the used boat section in your area just for the heck of it.
Tohsgib posted 08-28-2009 03:39 PM ET (US)
I take 5-6 out in my 19 Revenge mostly all the time. I also can't see EVERYONE going out ALL the time. Women like to do this , kids need to do that, etc. In a couple years it will be just you and the dog going for rides.
Scott Grey posted 08-28-2009 05:04 PM ET (US)
5-6 won't be a problem. We take 4 adults and four kids on a regular basis along with a least one dog, an easy up canopy, 2 coolers, dip nets, fishng gear, sand buckets and shovels for the kids and folding canvas chairs. It gets full but still works for us! Fishing more than 3-4 gets to be a pain but can be done as well.
Buckda posted 08-28-2009 06:00 PM ET (US)
I commend you for your positive outlook on the future market for boats/boating in America.
I happen to take a more pessimistic view on the retained value, except over the very long term when "new" boats will be produced in lower quantities, driving up the value of used boats slightly.
However, I think we're in a long and flat "U" in terms of demand - which may not rebound for several years, and which will severely impact the depreciation curve of new boats bought today.
As I mentioned, there are some very strong value-priced boats on the market right now where owners are happy to walk away without LOSING money - they just want out - for whatever reason.
Buying new won't even keep workers busy - because there is such a strong inventory right now - you'd be just drawing down already produced product.
Buying used will serve your family budget well for a 190, (steep discount) or will provide more bang for your buck ($30 can get you into the mid to upper 20ft range in many areas of the country...especially if you are paying cash.
Good luck to you - and I agree, it is an excellent surprise for your family!
Dave
Buckda posted 08-28-2009 06:06 PM ET (US)
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2000-BOSTON-WHALER-23-outrage-95371237
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1345348107.html
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1339761631.html
Just a quick look.............
WT posted 08-28-2009 06:17 PM ET (US)
Food for thought if you are a first time boat buyer.
Buying a used boat is like sending your teenage son to a used car dealer to buy a car.
Buying new at a decent price might save a lot of brain damage.
Warren

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Author	Topic: 190 OUTRAGE For First-time Boater
mullethead	posted 08-26-2009 09:56 AM ET (US) First time on continuouswave. Thanks to all for really great info. After much pleading from my family (wife and 4 kids) I am finally ready to [buy] a small versatile boat for the kids to fish and ski. I am pretty well decided on a Boston Whaler. I've been looking around for about 2 months and have come across a new leftover 2008 190 Outrage with the T-top, trailer, 150 Verado, trim tabs, and fishing package for $29,900. I have two basic questions. Is the Outrage 190 a reasonable option for my needs, and is this a reasonable price (which it seems to be)? Any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks!
Buckda	posted 08-26-2009 10:05 AM ET (US) [A 190 OUTRAGE] is an excellent boat, and a great first Whaler for a small family - but with 6 persons on board, you will feel crowded fast - and as your kids grow up (and they grow FAST) you will quickly become uncomfortably crowded for all except evening sunset cruises. IF you are using this from a summer cottage, where persons stay ashore and you use the boat in "shifts" - i.e. skiing, fishing with a few at a time, you have a winner. If you will trailer and launch the boat and use it where there is no shore-based "base camp", then you will be very crowded. Pricing boats today is perhaps one of the most difficult tasks. I'm sure the dealer is likely breaking even or even losing money on the deal (being a leftover from better times in the industry - it was probably delivered in late 2007). BUT - you can buy a LOT of used boat for $30,000 right now. There are guys who are literally abandoning ship, and there are banks that own boats right now and want to dump them. I'd first identify 2 or 3 models of boat that you like and then begin to look around at what is out there for slightly used products. Just my opinion. I wish I had extra cash laying around right now because I'd have a very nice boat in my driveway due to this recession...
Scott Grey	posted 08-26-2009 10:32 AM ET (US) I have had the same setup minus the tabs for three years now. Great all around boat for inshore and offshore. The more I use it the more I like it. We are going out Labor Day weekend scalloping and will have a full boat of snorkelers so the swim platform will get lots of use.
alfred	posted 08-26-2009 11:06 AM ET (US) That is a great price! It's one great boat, but having said that, if I could I would get one of the larger ones, like a late 205 or even the new 235 Conquest. If you fish two up you cant beat it, but if you have more then two and gear, it starts to get crowded real fast. The up side is that it is easy to tow, launch and recover. You can beach it with no dramas and the shallow drafts makes it very easy to get off the beach. The little swim platform/ladder is easy to use and even my youngest one has no issues climbing back up when we anchor and have a dip.
20dauntless	posted 08-26-2009 01:15 PM ET (US) We've got six in our family as well. We have two boats, a 1996 20 Dauntless (like the Ventura) for the lake near our house and a 22 C-Dory for the cabin. I'd seriously look into a Ventura for your uses. They are an excellent fish and ski boats and have a lot more seating than the center consoles do. I agree with others though, six people on any boat this size for a whole day on the water is probably going to be too cramped.
muskrat	posted 08-26-2009 01:20 PM ET (US) I agree that is a great price for that boat with those options. I baught one this spring, though a few years older and we are really liking it. I would call it the perfect little big boat. Plenty of room for my family of 5, two of which being under 45 lbs however.
divedoctors	posted 08-26-2009 07:31 PM ET (US) mullethead- I brought a new 2006 190 Outrage and Verado 150 and loved it for the past three years. It was a great boat. However, it got small quickly. This summer I upgraded to a leftover new 2008 230 Dauntless. It's been the best boating decision I've made. The price you're getting is a very good deal. My trade in value for the 190 Outrage was not much less than that. You won't find a new boat deal that is much better. Not trivializing the cost difference between the Outrage and Dauntless, I must say the performance and comfort difference in the boats is substantial. I use the boat to wakeboard and ski, and salmon and steelhead fish on Lake Michigan. I don't trailer the boat, but both are easily trailerable (based on my few launches and loadings that I've done solo). The reason I mention all of this is to recommend that you seriously consider how you want to use the boat- you'll certainly need a bigger boat with more room and power. I'd take the $30,000 and try to find a used Dauntless 220 or 200 from a few years ago - they're probably better suited to your needs. They'll ski better and they are bigger. Unless you really need the Outrage's greater deadrise for dealing with rougher seas (relative to boats of the same LOA), the Dauntless is probably a better boat for you. Also, I wasn't impressed with the Outrage's time to plane with a full load (4-5 people). The 150 will be somewhat disappointing if you want to get on plane quickly with a skier. It'll be OK with a wakeboarder. Do you have a ski-pylon? It is a must. I'm in Germany this week, so I'm keeping this short. When I return, I can get you more information on the 190 Outrage if you are still interested. Hopefully, I can steer you away from the 190 and then finding yourself upgrading a few years later (like I did). -Shyam
Yiddil	posted 08-26-2009 08:13 PM ET (US) BUy IT!! One of ther best Darn boats youl ever get for that price...then get the bow dodger, front lounge, bimini top canvas from mills and a mooring cover, some Nice Garmin set up and some music and youl never want to leave that thing)) My Best< Henry AKA THE YIDDIL
Sal A	posted 08-26-2009 08:33 PM ET (US) I have traded boats like they were baseball cards. From a 160 Ventura on up and back down. I have owned this boat. I second Henry. Buy it.
JoeyP	posted 08-26-2009 09:45 PM ET (US) Holy B-jesus! $29,900.00 for a NEW 2008 Leftover with 0 Hours with all those options. BUY it and enjoy.
pennstater	posted 08-26-2009 10:45 PM ET (US) Holy cow, that deal sounds too good to pass up. I bought a 2005 (150 engine) based on recomendations from this board and haven't been disappointed. With all that said, I am looking to get a larger boat (looking at a 21' conquest) as I could really use a cubby cabin to get the little kids out of the sun.
Kencvit	posted 08-27-2009 02:05 AM ET (US) If you put a Mills forward shelter on this boat as I and others have...you add a whole new dimension to the 190. Mine is almost always up but drops guickly for fishing. I`m often travelling with 3-4 ten year old kids and the shelter keeps them outa the wind and all their stuff (towels,snacks, pillows,jackets) from blowing out of the boat. I was out last week with five kids and all stayed dry when we were caught in a rain storm on a 10 mile trip. I was soaked at the helm. We often travel with six , sometimes 8... but 6 is an ideal max, three on the bow cushion, one on the cooler seat and 2 at the helm. I never use the rear quarter seats and don`t like the low backrests and with the heavy verado you don`t want the weight back there anyway. Many here say the trim tabs are a graet option and I will add them at some point. I have a Yamaha F150 with 450 hrs hrs that has been flawless.
Moe	posted 08-27-2009 07:26 AM ET (US) There's no doubt in my mind the 190 Outrage is better offshore than the 170 Montauk, but I was shocked at how cramped the 190 Nantucket felt with just two aboard--in my opinion, no more roomy than the 170 Montauk. The qualities that make the former better offshore make it less well-suited to pulling tubes, skier's etc (deeper-V, less lift). As others have recommended, I'd look for a larger boat for six, such as the 220 Dauntless with 225HP.
Nushlie	posted 08-27-2009 08:32 AM ET (US) Gentlemen & Ladies: If one wants to buy a relatively small boat that can be used to navigate inland lakes, the great lakes, and the oceans, the Outrage 190 is an excellent choice. Nushlie
SJUAE	posted 08-27-2009 11:43 AM ET (US) 30K with all those options and versatility, but it and enjoy. Regards Steve
florida1098	posted 08-27-2009 12:02 PM ET (US) Had a 15 foot 150 sport and upgraded to a 2007 190 outrage, in January this year. (leftover). I paid $27,000 w/ 135 verado bimini and no electrics. had it 5 months, fished with a total of 3 aboard and found it waaay too small and cramped. Dealer offered me $14,000 as a trade in and ended up with a 23 footer which is comfortable, not great though. That 19, which is a small 19, actually not even, will be too small for your needs. Either find a used older larger boat or finance slightly more and get something you can stay with.
mullethead	posted 08-28-2009 07:11 AM ET (US) Thanks to all for really valuable information. Lots of great points made on both sides. I should mention that I originally had a Dauntless in mind, but when this opportunity came up, it caught my eye. I feel like value wise, this is too good an offer to pass up right now. If I do decide to trade up in a couple of years, I hope to be able to recoup a significant portion of my investment in trade in value. Basically, I look at it as a win-win. Kids don't know about it yet. I hope to surprise them next week. I'll keep you posted along the way. Thanks again too all for their input!
Nushlie	posted 08-28-2009 10:58 AM ET (US) Mullet: Your kids will love the boat, great surprise. Nushlie
Brian7son	posted 08-28-2009 03:32 PM ET (US) Mullet, I agree with numerous prior posts that it's a great boat and a good price. However, my concern as others have stated, is the size. It may not suit your particular needs. You did not state the ages of your kids. However, even if they are small, 6 of you on a 19 will get crowded fast. Have you taken your wife and all 4 kids to the dealership and all climbed on the boat at the same time and milled around for a while yet? It's a good idea to try that. I know that having a brand new boat is extremely appealing. However, Buckda makes an excellent point. Right now you can almost steal some very nice gently used boats. $30K will buy you a lot of boat in the used markety right now. Go to traderonline.com and nose around in the used boat section in your area just for the heck of it.
Tohsgib	posted 08-28-2009 03:39 PM ET (US) I take 5-6 out in my 19 Revenge mostly all the time. I also can't see EVERYONE going out ALL the time. Women like to do this , kids need to do that, etc. In a couple years it will be just you and the dog going for rides.
Scott Grey	posted 08-28-2009 05:04 PM ET (US) 5-6 won't be a problem. We take 4 adults and four kids on a regular basis along with a least one dog, an easy up canopy, 2 coolers, dip nets, fishng gear, sand buckets and shovels for the kids and folding canvas chairs. It gets full but still works for us! Fishing more than 3-4 gets to be a pain but can be done as well.
Buckda	posted 08-28-2009 06:00 PM ET (US) I commend you for your positive outlook on the future market for boats/boating in America. I happen to take a more pessimistic view on the retained value, except over the very long term when "new" boats will be produced in lower quantities, driving up the value of used boats slightly. However, I think we're in a long and flat "U" in terms of demand - which may not rebound for several years, and which will severely impact the depreciation curve of new boats bought today. As I mentioned, there are some very strong value-priced boats on the market right now where owners are happy to walk away without LOSING money - they just want out - for whatever reason. Buying new won't even keep workers busy - because there is such a strong inventory right now - you'd be just drawing down already produced product. Buying used will serve your family budget well for a 190, (steep discount) or will provide more bang for your buck ($30 can get you into the mid to upper 20ft range in many areas of the country...especially if you are paying cash. Good luck to you - and I agree, it is an excellent surprise for your family! Dave
Buckda	posted 08-28-2009 06:06 PM ET (US) http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2000-BOSTON-WHALER-23-outrage-95371237 http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1345348107.html http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1339761631.html Just a quick look.............
WT	posted 08-28-2009 06:17 PM ET (US) Food for thought if you are a first time boat buyer. Buying a used boat is like sending your teenage son to a used car dealer to buy a car. Buying new at a decent price might save a lot of brain damage. Warren