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Author Topic:   New Engine on my Montauk 190
Ferdinando posted 10-06-2009 08:14 PM ET (US)   Profile for Ferdinando   Send Email to Ferdinando  
I finally sold my 2008 115 Merc with 100 hrs for $6,000. I just wanted to get rid of that thing. Will be putting a 2009 150 E-Tec on the old girl on Friday. I guess I'm looking at around $11,500 on the engine, but worth every penny. The Montauk is a great boat but it's a clunker with the 115. Will let everyone know how it goes.. Fred
Rick U posted 10-06-2009 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Rick U  Send Email to Rick U     
It will be interesting to watch your project. Did you have the extended warranty on the 115? If yes, does the warranty transfer to the buyer? Does the $11,500 for the new motor include an extended warranty?
Ferdinando posted 10-06-2009 10:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
No extended warranty on the Merc, 5 yr warranty on the E-Tec and yes I can transfer the warranty on the 115.
GreatBayNH posted 10-07-2009 10:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
I would love to see pictures of your Montauk 190 with the 150 E-Tec once installed.
Feejer posted 10-07-2009 12:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Seth
You should drop an E-Tec 115 on your 170
GreatBayNH posted 10-07-2009 12:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
I'd love to. It would cost me twice though. Once for the engine; a second time for the divorce.
Ferdinando posted 10-07-2009 01:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Ok just got back from the dealer and left the boat. Total cost with tax and install was $13,000. Includes 5 yr warranty. I found it a bit pricey but I wanted that engine. $6,000 grand for the Merc and I put in 7,000.

Well I told the wife that I only had to put in 1500 and she bought it, sometimes it's nice being with someone who knows nothing about boats!

Should be ready by Friday afternoon. Hope for a test run on Sat. Will let you guys know how she runs.

Fred

L H G posted 10-07-2009 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Wow - Prices down there in P.R. are high. I know someone who last week bought a new Mercury 150 Optimax for $8700, plus $520 for 6% sales tax and $250 for installation and removal of old engine, which he sold outright. Total cost around $9500.
Tom W Clark posted 10-07-2009 02:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Wow! Larry, I want the name of the dealer who will remove an old motor, and install and rig a new motor for only $250. You are truly the magic deal finder.
Buckda posted 10-07-2009 04:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Mercury executives must have a bit of indigestion right now. They're selling OptiMax motors for about 25 percent less than Evinrude is getting for the same HP motor with similar technology.

Speaks volumes to the level of demand for the product.

Ferdinando posted 10-07-2009 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Well I just discovered that I was overcharged $1,000 on my bill. I could not figure out how the engine got to 13,000 as everything was not itemized, just one lump sum.

I broke everything down and bingo. I called the dealer and he said he was very sorry for the mistake!!! he's going to give me a credit for the amount.

At least I feel a little bit better


L H G posted 10-07-2009 06:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
For once I agree with Dave, in that the reason Mercury can sell 150HP engines for 25% less than Evinrude, is indeed their #1 position in outboard sales, indicating higher volume and level of demand. High manufacturing volume (relative to other competitors) almost always results in lower production cost, and hence a lower cost to the consumer.

This is partuclarly important these days, and with the Japanese beating down the doors of the Amercian companies, like Suzuki is doing with their very low pricing. Mercury needs to sell 2-stroke 150's for less than Suzuki does for it's 4-stroke 150's, for long term success. Otherwise, all outboards are going to be made in Japan.

Sal A posted 10-07-2009 08:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal A  Send Email to Sal A     
You will love the upgrade. Don't look back. When it gets silly and wasteful is when you repower a new boat like you did, then trade up for a Parker 2520, then downsize to a Parker 21se, then to a 205 Conquest, and then to classic Montauk, which is when you realize how much money you wasted, and that you should have stopped with the 19' repower. Ask ne how I know!!!!
Buckda posted 10-08-2009 09:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
incorrigible


Peter posted 10-08-2009 09:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
quote:
For once I agree with Dave, in that the reason Mercury can sell 150HP engines for 25% less than Evinrude, is indeed their #1 position in outboard sales, indicating higher volume and level of demand. High manufacturing volume (relative to other competitors) almost always results in lower production cost, and hence a lower cost to the consumer.

LOL. Fantasyland is a wonderful place.

WT posted 10-08-2009 10:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
The dollar has steady weakened against the Canadian dollar and Japanese yen. So The foreigns must raise their prices to make the same profit?

With the weak dollar, US made Mercury outboards may become cheaper than ever in relation to the competition.

Warren

Tohsgib posted 10-08-2009 01:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tohsgib  Send Email to Tohsgib     
I don't see where Japanese engines are any cheaper than US made at Ed's. Finding a leftover or ?? is not fair way to blame the [Japanses outboard engine manufacturers] for selling cheap. I just found 04 leftover Fichts for dirt cheap, does not mean BRP is selling out.
Buckda posted 10-08-2009 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/018409.html

Looks like volume must be up at BRP to be able to price these motors so low...

:|

elaelap posted 10-08-2009 06:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
[Offered some advice on use of certain words, which have since been elided from this discussion.--jimh]
SC Joe posted 10-08-2009 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
Congrats on your new purchase Ferd! I'll be interested to hear of the top end with your new motor,and what prop works best. I don't know anything of the 150 E-TEC, but I doubt it couldn't be as bad the Mercury you had and that I have ('08 90 Four Stroke) and continue to have undiagnosable problems with.

I spoke to an E-TEC dealer last week and he came to the same conclusion that I did months ago--that the E-TEC 90 probably wouldn't push my 170 Montauk as fast as the Mercury does. Given that, and I can't put a bigger engine on it without violating the Coast Guard plaque, and spending about $8 or $9K, I've decided to sell the whole thing (if I can). I'm going back to a Grady with a Yamaha.

Ferdinando posted 10-08-2009 09:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Thanks Joe and good luck on your sale. Personally I don't like Mercs and the 115 on the 190 is ridiculous. Even the new throttle is much sturdier then the Mercs. At least I'll know when I'm in neutral, with the Merc throttle it was a guessing game.

I will pick her up tomorrow at the dealer and plan to test on Sat. Will let everyone know how she handles.

Fred

Feejer posted 10-09-2009 08:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Say it not so Joe
SC Joe posted 10-09-2009 10:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
Yeah..I'm done with it.

It's cheaper and easier to get another boat than another engine.

Feejer posted 10-10-2009 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Ferdinando

Best of luck to you with the new engine. I buddy of mine swears by them. He's currently on his 2nd engine with close to 300 hours and not any problems. You gotta love the winterizing feature, not that you need it.

jimh posted 10-10-2009 11:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Warren Buffet, who is well-known as a business man, said something like this:

"The measure of a product's appeal is how easy it is to raise its price."

L H G posted 10-10-2009 05:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
That was yesterday for Warren. Today, he owns Geico Insurance, now #3 nationwide in car insurance, whose whole message is high volume of product sold translates into lower pricing than the competition.
Not a very original idea, however. We've all known that for a long time. Conversely low volume of production usually means high prices must be charged.

Basically, Yamaha and Mercury control pricing in the outboard market because they have close to 80% marketshare. And since all outboards are basically the same (with the exception of the Verado platform), of same quality, there's not much to differentiate them other than color. They all push a boat around reasonably well and use about the same amount of fuel. That's why Suzuki has to offer hyper competitive pricing to break into the Merc/Yam markets, but it is probably unsustainable long term.

SC Joe posted 10-15-2009 07:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
Got any pics yet? Performance numbers?
Ferdinando posted 10-15-2009 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Joe:

I'm working in Haiti all this week so I was not able to try out the new engine. I am returning to San Juan tomorrow so I can try out the boat on Sat.

I told the wife I was coming home because I miss her, truth is I want to fire up that 150 and see how she runs...

Whaler_Jack posted 10-16-2009 09:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whaler_Jack  Send Email to Whaler_Jack     
Ferdinando,

I'd love to do the same to my 190. What's the deal as far the data plate horsepower, insurance and such? I have no doubt that it's safe just the legality issue.

Jack

Ferdinando posted 10-16-2009 07:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Jack:

I called Whaler and spoke to Chuck. No dice they will not change the Capacity Plate. They said they can't by law even if it is the exact same boat that will be able to sport a 150 in 2010.

What I thought was funny is that he said that they up'd the HP on the 190 because Whalers customers had asked for more power! Why the hell didn't they do that from the start, my take is that they wanted to keep pushing the 4 Stroke Merc.

Regarding insurance, I called my agent gave him the info and did not blink an eye. I just up'd the coverage to cover the new engine.

Fred

Whaler_Jack posted 10-17-2009 08:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whaler_Jack  Send Email to Whaler_Jack     
Fred,

Thanks for the info. The 150 should make the 190 an even greater boat.

Jack

Ferdinando posted 10-17-2009 07:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/maxnix73/?action=view¤t=PA170061.jpg

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/maxnix73/?action=view¤t=PA170065.jpg

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/maxnix73/?action=view¤t=PA170064.jpg

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, what a ride. Could not power up fully due wind and strong chop but she ran great. Hey I'm 58 and not a speed freak at all but man the power was worth the money. I did notice a higher fuel consumption but the dealer said this will happen for the first 2 hrs for both fuel & oil.

When I would push the old Merc to 3000 rpm the bait-well cover would vibrate so much you would think the engine was going to fall off, no vibration now. Totally 99% satisfied. What I did not like was that I thought that BRP still used the push button on the throttle to go from N to reverse and forward. However it was very easy to know you were in gear or not with this throttle, the Merc was a pain in the neck as you thought you were in N and surprise, you were still in gear!!!!!

If someone could fix up the pictures I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Fred

Tom W Clark posted 10-17-2009 07:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/ubbcode.html
sheikofthesea posted 10-17-2009 09:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for sheikofthesea  Send Email to sheikofthesea     
Dear Ferdinando:

Alas, alas, I remember when you were one of the first 190 M's owners and we were all so happy.

Please by all means folks. If you have lots of extra money and that hole shot and ultimate speed really floats your boat, by all means go get an E-Tec 190 for all I care.


I am finishing up my third year with the Montauk 190, the Debunker Redux, prudly equipped with the Merc 115. And I am still SheikoftheSea in the Western Sound of Long Island. Yes we do a little tubing, a little cruising, a little dock and dine, some loving and living, but mainly we fish. And ultimately the 190 is a work boat, a fishing machine, a super skiff. Go buy an Outrage if you you are into all that flashy power. I'll go out beyond Breezy Point out into the Atlantic or hang out in the weeds deep in the back of Manhasset Bay

Seriously Ferdinando my mother does a lot of work in Haiti what do you there? Hope you are not one of the bloodsuckers.

Sheik

Ferdinando posted 10-17-2009 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Sheik:

Well to each his own, I have been an OMC owner (now BRP) all my life, just could not get used to a Merc, no offense to Merc owners. And as I said above I'm close to 60 so speed is not my game, boat is used mostly for cruising and light fishing.

Regarding Haiti, no I'm not a bloodsucker just trying to finish up the airport terminal construction for a major airline. Interesting place but not one of my favorite destinations.

Phil T posted 10-18-2009 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Phil T  Send Email to Phil T     
Fixed links for Fred:

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/maxnix73/?action=view& current=PA170061.jpg
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/maxnix73/?action=view& current=PA170065.jpg
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/maxnix73/?action=view& current=PA170064.jpg

SC Joe posted 10-18-2009 06:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
The motor looks great on there!
Feejer posted 10-19-2009 12:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
That looks really nice. I've decided to paint my Verado White.
Rich S posted 10-19-2009 03:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Rich S  Send Email to Rich S     
The boats beautiful...the E-Tec looks fantastic...and that water is to die for.


annapoliswhaler posted 10-19-2009 03:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for annapoliswhaler    
I think I've got my whaler in the WRONG body of water! Even in the summer, I don't look like I am having that much fun!
TransAm posted 10-19-2009 04:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for TransAm  Send Email to TransAm     
Annapoliswhaler--you're in the RIGHT body of water. I'll bet there's no Blue Crabs in that crystal clear water (Puerto Rico), :-)
Ferdinando posted 10-19-2009 05:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Yep the water is nice, funny thing is the small cay where this picture was taken was pretty empty last Sat because were in "winter" and the water is a little chilly "84.4" degrees!!!!. One guy even told me he was taking his boat home for the "winter" to work on it, I almost died laughing......coming from Brooklyn winters a comment like that has to be funny.....
imko posted 10-23-2009 04:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for imko  Send Email to imko     
The whaler site shows now the Montauk 190 with a 150 Verado

http://www.whaler.com/site_media/Performance_Data/190MT_EnginePerf_.pdf

Ferdinando posted 11-01-2009 05:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Well I really gave her a run today, the water was nice and the power was awesome........ This thing really moves with the E-TEC. Even my wife noticed the difference in power. The only downside is that it uses more gas then the 115 as I have a fuel meter and it goes through a gallon much faster then the Merc. I used to have a bad vibration on the bait well cover with the Merc, completely gone with the 150. Worth every penny so far. I also changed out all the gauges to the white BRP models.

So far no regrets, although I do miss my fuel economy compared to the 4 stroke.

Fred

Chuck Tribolet posted 11-01-2009 11:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Worse fuel economy at the same speeds?
Or the higher speeds the e-TEC gives you?


Chuck

boatdryver posted 11-02-2009 10:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
keep checking that fuel consumption. shouldn't be THAT much different once you are past the "let's see how fast she'll go" phase.

jimL

Ferdinando posted 11-02-2009 06:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Higher speeds..
L H G posted 11-02-2009 08:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Here is one of the answers to your fuel economy issue:

http://www.mercurymarine.com/look_deeper/head_to_head.php?ID=56& SortBy=Title&Section=outboardChecks&optimax135175=6

Coming from your perspective, the higher fuel use should be worth the price of not having to have a 150 Optimax on your Whaler!

Ferdinando posted 11-02-2009 08:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
LHG:

Amen to that!!!!!

Fred

SJUAE posted 11-02-2009 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE    
Ferdinando

Do you mean you miss the economy of the 115 over the 150, four stroke or otherwise

As Chuck notes you need to compare speed not RPM's to get a resonable comparision of additional consumption.

Regards
Steve

Ferdinando posted 11-03-2009 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Steve:

Yes I do miss the fuel economy of the 115 compared to the 150. I have not been very scientific as I have only used the motor for about two hours so far. This weekend I will go fishing so I guess I'll put about 6 to 7 hrs on the meter and have a better feel for it.

Fred

jimh posted 11-04-2009 01:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
By my eye, that 150-HP E-TEC looks no larger than--perhaps even not as tall as--the Mercury 115-HP Veradito it replaced.

You will be very pleased with the fuel consumption rate of the E-TEC at its idle speeds, as you might use when fishing. At idle speeds the E-TEC has much better fuel economy than most other engines, including the magical Mercury four-cycle engines used in the Mercury comparison test reports. The E-TEC fuel consumption is low because the engine runs in a stratified charge mode. It literally only burns about 0.15-gallon per hour. You can fish all day on a gallon of fuel.

Peter posted 11-04-2009 10:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Under the ICOMIA duty cycle, I believe that BRP reports a 115 HP E-TEC uses 2.3 GPH and a 150 HP E-TEC uses 3.2 GPH. A 115 HP 4-stroke outboard will have a duty cycle fuel consumption rate similar to the E-TEC 115's 2.3 GPH.

Of course, a 150 HP outboard motor operated under the ICOMIA duty cycle is doing more work than the 115 HP outboard motor and thus it should be using more fuel. So its not surprising that the 150 HP E-TEC on this boat uses more fuel than the prior 115 4-stroke. It's going faster per Ferdinando and that means its doing more work. Any other brand 150 HP motor would also use more fuel than the prior 115 4-stroke operated in the same way.

Peter posted 11-04-2009 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I meant to add that I bet the E-TEC 150 transforms the performance of the boat as compared to the 115 4-stroke.

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