Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
  190 NANTUCKET Self Bailing

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   190 NANTUCKET Self Bailing
muskrat posted 12-10-2009 11:29 AM ET (US)   Profile for muskrat   Send Email to muskrat  
While following a few conversations on this forum I've learned that [a Boston Whaler MONTAUK boat] with plug removed becomes a semi-self-bailing deck. Embarassingly I owned a [MONTAUK] for 10 years with out that knowledge, which could have saved me some wet tennis shoes on several occasions. I now own a 190 Nantucket. How will [a Boston Whaler 190 NANTUCKET] perform with plug removed and bilgepump disconnected? I realize this is an actual self-bailing design, but I also see room in the bilge for, in my estimate a few hundred pounds of water. Has anyone tested this either intentionally or by accident? Was there water on deck? I would test this myself but I don't want to force any water where it doesn't belong especially in my northern climate. Thanks in advance for any info.
GreatBayNH posted 12-10-2009 05:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
quote:
[a Boston Whaler MONTAUK boat] with plug removed becomes a semi-self-bailing deck

I thought I read that that was only the classics, not the Montauk 170, that exibited that behavior. I believe I read the reason for this is the difference in the plug placement in the post-classic Montauk 170 compared to the classic Montauk.

Nauti Tauk posted 12-10-2009 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Nauti Tauk  Send Email to Nauti Tauk     
On a 170 Montauk pull the plug, turn off the battery, and walk away. It'll bail just like a classic montauk. Works like a charm.
Perry posted 12-10-2009 08:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
If I boated in fresh water, I might try the experiment on my 190 Nantucket but no fresh water anywhere near here.
Feejer posted 12-11-2009 07:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
The bilge will fill with water: how much? You are comparing apples to oranges. The 170 does not have a bilge, it has a sump.

I tested the theory and my pump in September on my Dauntless. I had the boat on the work rack for cleaning. I forgot to put in the garboard drain plug. The lift guy put the boat in, LOTS of water very quick. The pump did a fair job of keeping up for the four minutes before I could get the plug in

Kencvit posted 12-12-2009 12:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
We were out on small lake in Minnesota doing a trial on my Nantucket with one of the boat yard guys. Ten minutes out the salesman called on the cellular to say that we might not have a bilge plug in. We removed the deck hatch to see we were filling up with water. We had been out on the water about 15 minutes by that time. The water level was below the deck hatch by at least three-inches, if I can recall. The bilge pump was running. We found the plug in a cup holder, put it in, and carried on. If he hadn`t called, we may have not even noticed. There was no "sinking" feeling that other boats can have. :)
Feejer posted 12-12-2009 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
3 inches below the deck? Thats a lot of water. My Dauntless has about 20 inches from the deck to the bilge. One of the reasons why I installed a high water alarm.
BlueMax posted 12-12-2009 05:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
I happened to conduct that experiment for myself on my 170 Montauk this past August or Sep (with my wife on board as well). It was a beautiful calm day on the ICW with no traffic and we were just floating with the current. I pulled the plug to see how much water would come in - I have a rule 1k pump that came with - the water barely came up over the sump or bilge area and across the floor in front of the aft seats. I shut the pump off and didn't really get all that much more water across the rear. Started up the engine and pulled forward gettiing up on plane and the water beagn exiting with no apparent problem.

Just my experience.
Max

Kencvit posted 12-12-2009 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
Feej, I think it may have been closer to 6". Also the bilge on the Nantucket is closer to 12"-15" in depth at its deepest. On the sides of the hull I know is only about 8".
i know that because my fuel filter is there. I want to add a Racor filter but there isn`t enough depth for the canister.I`m going to move the filter and put it under under the port rear seat above te deck.
Yiddil posted 12-12-2009 09:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Yiddil  Send Email to Yiddil     
Ken, when you do yours, ship me the pics and the step by step...as I bought one last summer but did not install it.
At the time I was replacing the fuel lines because of a bad gas tank attachements....but I will get it done this coming summer:)

As far as I know, I have never seen my Nantucket running without a plug...but I would think it is not like a Montauk
when it comes to removal of water with the plug out....

The Nantucket is self bailing I belive but it works diferently than the classics...Ken discribed it right...she will keep running just fine till you find a plug or turn on your bilge...I never had a need to flood the bilge to see..I am in brakish salt water of the lower Potomoc River so I would not do that purposly anyway...

Nauti Tauk posted 12-13-2009 07:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Nauti Tauk  Send Email to Nauti Tauk     
You guys are worring me. If any Whaler fills with water and doesn't automatically stabalize the level with only a slight amount on deck, I would feel like I paid a whole lot of money for nothing. Anyway I don't have to worry about it, I love the Montauks.
muskrat posted 12-13-2009 07:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for muskrat  Send Email to muskrat     
I would like to rephrase my question. Whould a 190 Nantucket with plug removed, bilge pump disconnected, at rest in calm water with light or no load aboard, have water on the deck? and if so how much? Thanks for all the info guys I guess if no one checks in who has experienced this scenario I will have to test it myself this spring once there is no chance trapped water freezing. I'll post results if/when I do. Thanks again
Kencvit posted 12-13-2009 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
Muskrat, in my senario the pump was running. I understand your question. I would bet...no...with the plug pulled and the pump disconnected....the water will fill the bilge to a point ,but would not reach the deck.
Rick U posted 12-14-2009 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Rick U  Send Email to Rick U     
If you pull the plug and flood the bilge, aren't you risking putting your fuel tank under water? The 190 Montauk has a bilge and a self bailing deck but they are isolated. Rain, spray, even a wave over the stern should not make it's way into the bilge.
Feejer posted 12-14-2009 04:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
"Rain, spray, even a wave over the stern should not make it's way into the bilge."


In a perfect boat yes. My Dauntless 180 has 4 rod holders in the rear. They drain into the bilge. So do the cup holders. The bilge in many boats is not sealed from the deck.

muskrat posted 12-14-2009 07:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for muskrat  Send Email to muskrat     
Rick I'm not sure but I think it would be safe to submerge my fuel tank because the fuel tank vent is at the top of the gunnel also I only use my 190 Nantucket in fresh water.
Rick U posted 12-14-2009 10:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Rick U  Send Email to Rick U     
I'm no expert, but I doubt the tank is designed to be submerged. Lots of potential leaks. I'd be worried water would find it's way in. Are you just curious how it will effect stability? I'd talk someone else into trying it on their boat.
boatdryver posted 12-15-2009 09:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
I'm having trouble following the logic of this thread.

Muskrat, are you just wanting to know what would happen if you launch your Nantucket having forgotten to put in the drain plug? That would be good to know all right. This happens to everyone, eventually. (I did it once on my aluminum inboard jet boat and it was a panic situation getting it back on the trailer in time.)

Some of the other postings mention "pulling the plug" which is what one can do on a Montauk while it is in the water because the plug is internal in the sump.

But if your Nantucket is like my 200 Dauntless, the plug is a threaded plug on the outside of the transom and you can't just "pull the plug" with the boat in the water. The only way it would be missing would be if one forgot to screw it in before launch or get in the water behind the boat and remove it purposely, and why would anyone do that with a self bailing deck like the Nantucket?

JimL

Feejer posted 12-15-2009 10:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
On my 2007 Dauntless 180 I don't have a screw in. Its one of those black rubber pressure fits with a T handle on it. Matter of fact I use two, one inside and one outside.
muskrat posted 12-15-2009 05:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for muskrat  Send Email to muskrat     
Jim, although I do see the posibility of forgetting to put the plug in, I am more concerned with a potential through hull seal falure on the plug or the livewell pump system. Also I find some water does get into the bilge during rain storms, probably due to the old caulk around the removable section of the deck. Obviously I do not trust bilge pumps. My 190 Nantucket has a rubber T screw type plug that is accessable from inside the boat. On a personel note I am somewhat new to the internet and I think it's great that I can use other peoples experiences to learn more about my boat.
Kencvit posted 12-15-2009 06:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
Rick U, I think the tank could be submerged without problems. It must be a sealed system otherwise the fuel or fumes could escape. The vent is in the gunnel.
Bella con23 posted 12-15-2009 08:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Maskrat - If I'm following you correctly, your concerned about the boats ability to remain floating at a given level should the plug fail or possibly an undetected hull penetration.

I don’t think that the ratio of weight to foam is that much different from your boat to my 23 Conquest. Last year I left the plug out of the transom before I dropped it back into the marina after vacation. We tied it up in the slip and left for home.

I return the next day after finding the plug next to the front door to my house. The following pictures were posted back then and pretty much tell the story.

I should add that since the bilge flood and after reporting that nothing got hurt I need to replace my trim tab hydraulic pump as it flooded with sea water and was destroyed. I now have it relocated to the transom above the waterline in the battery area.

http://www.pbase.com/metuchen/bella_taking_on_water&view=slideshow

Joe

sosmerc posted 12-15-2009 11:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for sosmerc  Send Email to sosmerc     
One of the few gripes I have with my 1998 18ft. Ventura is the fact that the design creates a large bildge area that potentially will take on alot of water should the plug fail, or perhaps you take a large wave over the bow. Even in a heavy rainstorm water can and does find its way down into the bildge area.
I would have much rather seen Whaler figure out some way to keep water out of the bildge such that a bildge pump would never be necessary. In my opinion the scuppers need to be much larger and they should bail out over the side as opposed to out the transom through hoses. The outlets are under water at rest and that doesn't accomplish much of anything.
It seems that when Whaler started making hulls larger than the old 18 Outrage they suddenly abandoned the "high and dry" philosophy and true "unsinkable" nature of the classics.
Maybe my 18 Ventura won't actually sink if I let the bildge fill to capacity, but I'm not going to like what all that salt water is going to do to the exposed wiring, batteries, junction boxes, tab motor, floScan sensor, racor filter, fuel tank sensor and fittings, etc. etc. Much of it could be ruined. If I were designing a boat I would strive to keep all the important stuff dry.
number9 posted 12-16-2009 12:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for number9  Send Email to number9     
The newer Whalers are still truly "unsinkable" but must not as "high and dry" as in past days. They need to make room for many of the modern convenience systems and their components. Below deck doesn't take away from deck areas or storage and is pleasing to the eye. Whaler, owners and others who have done installations may have been able to choose a better and drier location for some components.
Rick U posted 12-16-2009 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Rick U  Send Email to Rick U     
muskrat, personally I wouldn't be that concerned with having a bilge. check your connections and valves and enjoy the extra deck space you get from the bilge. The pictures of of the 23 conquest with the flooded bilge answer the question of how it would affect level flotation. If it's still a concern, you could always fill the void w ping pong balls. Just kidding about the ping pong balls, your boat is safe.
muskrat posted 12-16-2009 01:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for muskrat  Send Email to muskrat     
Joe, Thanks thats what I was hoping to hear. Assuming you had a second battery, It looks like you could have jumped in and gone fishing as it was, although planing off may not have been posible. It looks like your boat was perfectly and purposely designed to handle that situation. I'm sure I don't have 5" between the deck and waterline but I'm confident that if your boat was so clearly designed to handle that situation than so was mine.
I know next to nothing about trim tabs, but I'm suprised the system can be dammaged by water. was it just becaus it was salt water?
Bella con23 posted 12-16-2009 02:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Maskrat - The water never came over the top of the batteries even with my 180lbs onboard. Of coarse if I was to try and move the boat I'm sure the water would have drowned the batteries as well.

The trim-tab system levels the boat when it is underway. On my boat it uses 12" x 14" stainless plates mounted to the transom at water level and is forced down into the water stream using hydraulic rams also mounted to the transom. http://www.pbase.com/metuchen/image/100272826

These rams are controlled by a pump which is controlled by a joystick or rocker switches at the helm.
Joe

Feejer posted 12-17-2009 07:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
If you have the rubber T-insert I would also add one to the outside as well.
JoeyP posted 12-25-2009 09:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for JoeyP  Send Email to JoeyP     
Joe,

Did the bilge pump run until the batteries went dead? How did you get on the boat to activate the pump without having the batteries drowned?

Bella con23 posted 12-25-2009 11:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Maskrat - Ironically enough, I was having problems with the float on the pump so I pulled the fuse so it wouldn't run indefinitely as it had in the past.

So to answer the question, the bilge pump was never in the picture. The water level increased on the batteries when I jumped on-board, but it never rose to the top of the batteries.

Of coarse I had a plan of attack when I approched the boat. I knew that if I didn't get the plug in first, the water would displace my weight and flood the batteries. So I worked fast.
Joe

Bella con23 posted 12-26-2009 04:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Sorry - I meant to reply to JoeyP

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.