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Author Topic:   Insurance Value of Boat, Motor, and Trailer
DBOutrage17 posted 02-08-2010 09:16 PM ET (US)   Profile for DBOutrage17  
I was adjusting the insured amount on my boat policy. It was $19,000. My wife asked if we could lower that to cut costs. I figured we could go to $15,000. The insurance agent came back with values on the boat, motor trailer to total $15,000. They suggested $8,950 for the 1996 Outrage 17 II, $5,000 for the 1995 Mercury 150-HP motor, and $1,050 for the Eagle single-axle trailer. I guess the trailer sounds about right, but what would CW'ers suggest on the boat-motor split? I was thinking more on the boat, less on the motor?

Everything was bought new in 1996 and boat is in perfect condition stored mainly indoors and always indoors for winter. Thanks in advance.

boatdryver posted 02-09-2010 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
If you are in the USA, east or west coast? Location would make a difference of a couple of thousand.
JimL
wbullwin posted 02-09-2010 03:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for wbullwin  Send Email to wbullwin     
Apparently you are not a BOATUS member or have insurance with them but I'm pretty sure you can go on their website and get an estimate for free. I am a member now but did this years ago before I became a member and insured by them.
It might also be worth your while to get a quote from them too plus others. Not sure who you have, but I found it amazing the difference in costs between companies. I think you'll find you don't save too much by dropping the value. Another thing you should ask your company is whether they would give you book value, or an agreed upon fixed value if a total loss. If book value, you are wasting your money over insuring it.
tedious posted 02-09-2010 04:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
I can't believe a 1996 Mercury 150 is worth anything near $5,000. Ask the insurance agent if that's really what they'd give you if the motor fell off in deep water and couldn't be recovered.


Tim

DBOutrage17 posted 02-09-2010 06:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for DBOutrage17    
Thanks for the replies--I am in the Chicagoland area. I wasn't really too worried about getting the rock bottom cheapest insurance but rather fairly apportioning the values of the package accordingly. I quoted BoatUS once before and they didn't offer any savings.

If I were to sell [the boat, motor, and trailer as a package], $15,000 total seems like a good guess. Of course it's worth much more than that to me so it's not for sale, but no reason to over-insure it either.

I thought the $5,000 sounded high too, what do you think about $2,500 ~ $3,500 there?

The Panther posted 02-09-2010 11:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for The Panther    
Actually the numbers seem good all the way around and are in keeping with replacement values - I'm sure you have a deductible as well (probably $1,000?).

You are most likely insuring against loss or damage so you can offset replacement costs so those are good numbers for the value of the items listed - in all likelihood if the hull goes (stolen or loss at sea) the motor will go with it so you get full 14k value, but if only the motor goes, either you sell the hull - which $9,000 for a 14 yr old powerless hull is a bit much IMO - or you replace the motor and that 5 Grand will be mighty useful for that purpose toward that end.

If you are not worried about covering loss/damage or replacement why carry the coverage at all, right? I think your Agent is giving you a reasonable value estimate and is truly looking out for you with those values for coverage.

My two cents -

hauptjm posted 02-10-2010 06:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
I would suggest that whatever amounts you settle on, make sure the policy is a "stated value" policy. This essentially underwrites the values at purchase. At the time of claim you don't have to worry if your blown engine will be "adjusted" for something less than $5,000 or whatever amount you decide. If it is stolen or "totaled" by the carrier, you will receive $5,000.00, nothing less.

As an aside to deductibles, I have found that there is not a huge savings on these policies in raising the deductible really high. I'm sure it depends on the carrier and simply look at all the options. Eyes wide open, as it were!

The Panther posted 02-10-2010 07:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for The Panther    
hauptjm - excellent point on ensuring 'stated value' coverage.
wbullwin posted 02-11-2010 02:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for wbullwin  Send Email to wbullwin     
That's the term I could not think of in my post above. Not realizing what I had, I got the "Boat Savers Policy" for my 170 Montauk from BOATUS and then found out later they would only give me "book value". I then qucikly changed to their "Yacht Policy" which carries a "stated Value" for replacement. I think is was an additional $15 or $20 annually.
Tohsgib posted 02-11-2010 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tohsgib  Send Email to Tohsgib     
You will be hapier with what is stated if your engine catches a bag and blows up. You would be lucky to get $2500 for that motor. If the whole package gets stolen or burns, who cares how it is broken down.
DBOutrage17 posted 02-18-2010 09:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for DBOutrage17    
Insurance office replies: "I am not sure what you are asking. Your policy will pay for a loss at Actual Cash Value up to the amount stated on the policy."

That's not a 'Stated Value' policy then, correct?

hauptjm posted 02-19-2010 09:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
No! This type of policy will determine the value of the component at the time of claim. The "underwriting" will occur at that point. They will determine what percentage damage/lost was in incurred and then mitigate your loss/payment based on what 'they' say its value is at that point in time. This leaves the consumer at the mercy of the carrier to value the asset. Stated Value policies do this underwriting at the point of policy purchase. Simply stated, you tell them what you want to value the component at, and they tell you what the cost will be. If their underwriters feel you're overpricing your component, they won't offer a premium or make it cost prohibitive.

In a way, it's like life insurance: you don't wait until you die to determine what you are worth. Although, I know a few folks that may be over valued.:)

L H G posted 02-19-2010 02:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
I am in insurance, and insure a lot of classic Whalers, some for people on this website. I think Jim Haupt is mis-using the term "Stated Value" and considering it as "Replacement Cost" coverage, as I know of no carrier that will do that. The correct term is "Agreed Value", and even then only a few companies will "agree" to that.

What it means is that you give them a "value" of what you think your classic boat, engine and trailer are worth, and they will "agree" to insure for that amount. BUT, at claim time, YOU HAVE TO PROVE your value if it seems out of line.
They will not apply the NADA value or BUC value, but the obligation to show that your boat, engine and trailer is worth what you have chosen is yours, especially if it's very high.

As for engines, the NADA values are often very low, and an engine will sell for more on the market. In order to collect your "Agreed Value", you will have to show what engines like yours are going for on the various websites, dealerships, etc.

In this model, only insure for what you can reasaonable prove on your rig's value. Otherwise you will be paying premium for something you can't collect. Engine values in particular should be adjusted downward on a regular basis, particularly if you bought them new. If I paid $15,000 for a new Mercury Verado, and insured it for that amount under "Agreed Value", that does not mean that 4 years later I could collect 15 K for it if stolen. I could only get waht a 4 year old engine in similar shape would sell for on the open market, so I should have adjusted my purchase price downward as the engine aged and accumulated hours. Full "Replacement Cost" coverage does exist in the boat world, only in the regular property world.

As an example, I have a couple of 1985 Mercury in-line 6 115HP "towers" on one of my Whalers, which are in beautiful running condition. NADA values them at a ridiculously low $500 each. I could sell 1000 of them all day at that price! Instead, I have them insured on an "Agreed Value" basis for $3000 each, about the most they may be worth to someone particularly insterested in one of these classics. That is an amount I could establish fairly easily.

hauptjm posted 02-28-2010 10:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
I apologize if I used an insurance term incorrectly, but I'm simply going on practical experience. Progressive Insurance (and my marine insurance agent with over 40 years and many, many $$$ in force), used that nomenclature.

My experience has not been what LHG describes. The few claims I've made were always paid at the limit amounts described in the policy. Once the determination was made that the engine was "totaled", I was paid the "agreed" amount. The engine was 5 years older than when I set the amount with the carrier.

Now, when we set the limits, the amounts have to be justified. I don't believe a carrier would "agree" to insure a 2000 150hp motor for $10,000. As an aside,the values we agreed upon were separated by Boat, Motor and Trailer, each having it's own assigned value.

Again, this is my experience only, and everyone should explore what is available for their circumstances and checkbook.

sosmerc posted 03-01-2010 04:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for sosmerc  Send Email to sosmerc     
I just got off the phone with my State Farm agent. I was inquiring about the type of boat insurance that I had and I asked him specifically what they would pay if my boat was stolen or a total loss from an accident. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that they would pay the amount shown on the policy at the time we established the policy. And he referred to the policy as "stated value coverage".
I told him that I was surprised because current market conditions would not justify the price they would pay (although it wouldn't be nearly enough to replace my boat with a new one).
A few years back I went through quite an ordeal getting State Farm to pay me what I thought my Mustang GT was worth when it burned up in a fire.
He said that their boat insurance is COMPLETELY different than their auto policy.
I can lower my premium if I want by accepting a lower limit.
I don't mind sharing this info:
Currently my policy is:
boat, motors, equipment.....$29,000
trailer......................$1000
$1000 deductable

Liability....$300,00
Medical Payment for each person.....$2000
My annual premium is $368
My boat is a 1998 Ventura with a 97 200 DFI, 94 15hp kicker
Plenty of extras such as hydraulic steering, full guages, gps, floscan, bimini top, covers, comfort package, etc.

hauptjm posted 03-01-2010 06:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
I forgot to add, the policy I own is indeed an "agreed value" not a stated value policy. After calling my agent, he said I know what you wanted and many times we use the terms incorrectly. There is a definite difference between the two. Thanks to Larry for clearing that up. As I said, spend the time to get the right policy. However, my settlement was not "adjusted down" one bit.

CharlieP123 posted 01-20-2011 12:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for CharlieP123  Send Email to CharlieP123     
Hey DBOutrage - I think those estimates sound about right. Right ballpark range at least, depending on what state you live in. I'd suggest checking out http://www.boatinsurance.org for more info - good site with unbiased info so you know exactly what you should be getting. Hope that helps mate.

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