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Author Topic:   180 Dauntless with Honda 150
morrisericd posted 06-28-2010 08:10 AM ET (US)   Profile for morrisericd   Send Email to morrisericd  
I've been having some [malfunctions or disappointments] with my Honda 150 four-cycle motor that came as a re-powered motor on my 2002 Boston Whaler 180 Dauntless. I have around 30 hours on the boat now and am still working out a few [malfunctions or disappointments].

ELECTRICAL PROBLEM: There seems to be a short [in the power distribution] somewhere between the console and the motor. This only seems to happen the first time starting, not subsequent times out on the water. Out of the water I will turn the main power switch [to ON] and, once in the water, lower the engine. When I turn the [ignition] key, the breaker (with the little red lever on the bottom that you have the push down and pull up to reset) trips OFF. I have to turn the main power to OFF, and then reset the breaker. Seems to work fine after that. Since I have a solution, I don't want to bring it in to a shop but thought someone might have an idea of what it could be.

ENGINE POWER: I've had two other Boston Whaler boats, a small STRIPER and an OUTRAGE 18, with two-cycle engines that seemed to have more power for their size than the HONDA 150-HP four-cycle. I was having trouble with bow rise, so I put on a plate on the engine. [The plate] solved the bow rise but cut off about 4-MPH of the top speed. With four people or so on the boat, [the engine speed] is [about 5,500-RPM] at full throttle; with the engine about half-trimmed I can get to 42-MPH. Yesterday I was trying to pull a 200-lbs wake boarder; my wife pulled me (185-lbs) up on a single ski. We had maybe 400-lbs of people in the boat plus the skier and wakeboarder. When I was in the water, it took forever to get up. It seems like the motor has no "pop". My wife's family has a Montauk 17 with a 90 two-cycle and it pulls up faster then mine. First step is to pull off the plate and have the extra weight on the boat forward to see if there's better pull. After that, I don't know: testing at a dealer? When I'm out fishing with a friend or alone it's nice to have the plate to keep the bow down, and, if that's the [cause of the loss of speed] I could take it off and on--not ideal. Is [lack of speed and lack of "pop" and lack of pulling power a problem] with Honda motors? Or [is it a problem with four-cycle motors] in general? The motor is quiet as can be and, besides the starting [malfunction] at the dock, runs great. I just need more power!

K Albus posted 06-28-2010 08:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
The fact that you've lost 4-MPH off your top end after adding the hydrofoil leads me to believe that your motor is mounted too low. When your boat is up on plane, the hydrofoil should be just above the surface of the water.
muskrat posted 06-28-2010 03:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for muskrat  Send Email to muskrat     
Morris--when I compare my old Proline 20-foot with a Johnson 115-HP two-cycle to to my 19-foot Boston Whaler boatwith a Mercury 115-HP FOURSTROKE, I find the two-cyle gets on plane much faster than the four-cycle, even with a heavy load but the four-cycle gets about 3-MPH higher top speed and uses about half the fuel. This comparison is flawed due to the very different hull designs of these two boats, but still food for thought. I also had a Montauk 17 with a 90 two-cycle motor, and it was quick to plane and great for skiing.
morrisericd posted 06-28-2010 04:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for morrisericd  Send Email to morrisericd     
Kevin--Thanks again for the reply. When I first got the boat the motor was mounted all the way at the bottom. I had a shop move it up one hole which didn't seem to make much of a difference. Out of the four mounting holes it can still move up two. The guy at the shop told me he wouldn't mount it up any further, but then he's never seen the boat in the water. I'll look at the hydrofoil the next time I'm out to see if it's out of the water on plane. Where is yours mounted?

While you're answering questions, what cover should I get? What cover do you have? I'm never going to moor the boat, I just want something for the trailer to keep the crap out. I'm hesitant to spend the money on Mills and am leaning towards a Taylor Made for about half of what the Mills is.

K Albus posted 06-28-2010 07:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
My motor is mounted two holes up, but needs to go up one more hole. I'll be moving it up sometime within the next week or two.

I do not have a cover for my boat. I keep my boat in my garage all summer, and in the winter I have it shrink-wrapped and stored outside.

jimh posted 06-28-2010 08:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have run Kevin's 180 DAUNTLESS. It is very quick to plane with its Mercury OptiMax 150-HP engine.

Four-cycle engines are known to have less low-RPM torque and horsepower than two-cycle engines, and particularly compared to a two-cycle engine using the Orbital Combustion Process with an auxiliary compressor helping to pump fuel and air into the cylinders. It is reasonable to expect that a naturally aspirated four-cycle outboard without any special tweaks for low-RPM torque boost, such as variable valve phasing or forced induction using a supercharger or turbocharger, will not have as much low-RPM power and torque as a two-cycle engine. However, with good rigging and proper propeller selection, you should get reasonable performance from the Honda 150-HP.

If you want to pull around heavy loads at low speeds, change the propeller. To change a propeller is less work that fiddling with adding or removing a foil appendage on the engine's anti-ventilation plate.

jimh posted 06-28-2010 08:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Generally the electric starter motor on an outboard engine is not wired into the primary power distribution system behind a circuit breaker. The outboard motor's electric starter motor should be wired directly to the battery. If it is wired through a circuit breaker, the surge of current when first trying to turn over a cold engine is probably too great and causes the circuit breaker to trip OFF.
jimh posted 06-28-2010 08:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It seems like there are suspicions about the both the electrical installation and the engine rigging on your boat. Have a knowledgeable outboard installer and rigger go over the set up. There may be some problems.
K Albus posted 06-29-2010 08:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
One minor correction: my motor is a 135 hp OptiMax.
Jefecinco posted 06-29-2010 11:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Morris,

I highly recommend a Carver Industries semi-custom cover. A good on-line source is Discount Boat Covers. Good fit and quality.

Butch

morrisericd posted 06-29-2010 11:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for morrisericd  Send Email to morrisericd     
Thank you for your responses. Jim - I never thought about the cold start. That has to be the reason for the breaker being tripped. As far as the wiring goes, whoever did it did a professional looking job but that doesn't mean that it was done correctly. I'll probably live with the breaker for the rest of the Summer and have someone look at it in the Fall.

What pitch and blade configuration prop do you recommend? Mine is a 3 blade - no idea of the pitch. Is it written somewhere on the prop?

I have a call into iboat for a Carver or Taylor Made semi-custom. They're having a hard time with my lack of bow rails on a 2002 180. I told them the hulls are the same from 2002-2007 and that not having bow rails was part of the fishing package so there should be quite a few of them out there. I'm actually debating getting a console and seat cover separately and then getting a full cover before the winter for storage. I just don't see myself pulling off a full cover each time I want to go out. Seems like it would be easier to keep the console and seat covers on during storage and transport.

morrisericd posted 06-29-2010 03:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for morrisericd  Send Email to morrisericd     
Just spent some time with my local marine guy. Ordered a Quicksilver stainless 14.5 x 15 3 blade prop. I had a 15.25 x 17 Honda stainless. Around $450 with the adapter from Mercury to Honda. Looks like Christmas in June this year.
Dauntless 180 posted 06-29-2010 05:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dauntless 180  Send Email to Dauntless 180     
Your Honda is a little lighter than my Verado 150 on my 2007 Dauntless 180. Are you sure your cavataion plate is not buried? My Verado has no problems pulling anyone out of the water and has a neck snapping hole shot. You might want to look at a 4 bladed prop if your engine is mounted correct. I did that last season before the engine was moved up and trim tabs installed.
morrisericd posted 07-07-2010 06:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for morrisericd  Send Email to morrisericd     
I thought I'd give an update. We were out all weekend with the new prop. I think the hole shot was a bit faster but my wife thought it took longer to pull her up. I had to be really careful about the RPM's - it would go over 6000 if I wasn't watching. My top speed was cut way down from 42 or so to 34. I have since taken it off and had it out yesterday with the old prop. I guess I'll hang on a little longer getting up on waterskis to sacrifice for the better speed and not having to watch the RPM's. I still think I'm going to have the engine moved up another hole to the third one down.
Dauntless 180 posted 07-08-2010 02:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dauntless 180  Send Email to Dauntless 180     
Something does not make sense. You should be able to run as fast as I with a great hole shot to boot. I'm running a Mercury Vengance 17P on my Verado. Tops out about 44mph up on plane in about 2 seconds
Dauntless 180 posted 07-08-2010 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dauntless 180  Send Email to Dauntless 180     
14.5 x 17 to be exact

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