170 Montauk shifter replacement - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
  170 Montauk shifter replacement

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   170 Montauk shifter replacement

WT posted 09-07-2011 03:45 PM ET (US)
I have a 2004 170 Montauk and I hate my shifter. My dealer hasn't seen my shifter problem first hand but thinks that the detent on the shifter my have worn out.
While my boat is in gear, I have to continually hunt for neutral with my current shifter. My last docking at Bodega Bay, I thought I was in neutral and was actually in gear (reverse). As you can imagine, that can cause stress levels to rise.
Other than replacing my current shifter with the factory model, are there any top of the line shifters that members here can recommend?
Thanks,
Warren
swist posted 09-07-2011 04:36 PM ET (US)
I have the same boat and same shifter. It is a piece of junk - the detents are very vague and as you state, neutral is also very approximate.
It is also impossible to adjust the resistance properly. If it's too loose and hitting a bump causes the throttle to move, and you tighten it about 1/100 of a turn, then it becomes difficult to move at all.
I never looked into it either because I've become used to it to a certain extent, and assumed that any replacement would either be expensive and/or complex.
But maybe this thread will solicit some ideas.

L H G posted 09-07-2011 05:22 PM ET (US)
WT - Do you have this control?
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Montauk%2017/?action=view& current=Scan_Pic0030.jpg
Or do you have Mercury's more recent model? Both are still available new.
Chance are that the control is NOT bad or worn out. There are several things could be checked first, before discarding it:
1. Adjustments to the control itself, mainly shift detents and friction settings.
2. Cable adjustments at the engine. This is the most common problem in hard working controls, particularly when coming out of forward to neutral. The cause is either too much, or not enough, throttle cable pressure on the engine stop. Make sure there is adequate grease at the engine end, and in the control also.
3. Bad or worn out cables. If you need new ones, buy TELEFLEX top of the line "XTREME" grade. They are incredibly smooth working and can take sharp bends if needed. I think they are better than Mercury's premium gray "platinum" line.
If none of this works, then you may truly have a worn out control in need of replacement.
For a super, super smooth and solid functioning control, with classic look, get a Morse MT-3, with the red groove chrome knob upgrade. Still one of the best units out there other than Mercury's DTS controls.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=Scan_Pic0005.jpg
The downside with the classic Morse MT-3 is that you will need a separate Mercury Power Trim panel, and convenient place to install it in the console. It is a simple plug-in item to the ignition harness, however. Cost is about $75. Also with the Morse, you will need a teak or Starboard plate under the control to cover the slightly larger hole from the Merc control. I used a 3/8" thick piece of solid teak, varnished.
WT posted 09-07-2011 07:10 PM ET (US)
Hi Larry:
Here is a picture of my shifter.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/DSC_5460.jpg
When I go drift fishing for rock cod, it would not be unusual to shift into and out of gear 50-100 times per day, depending upon how fast the water might be pushing the boat around. I'm sure I have gotten my money's worth out of this control.
I love the look of the Morse control and like the ones with the red ball. I'll do some snooping around. But I do like having the power trim button on the shifter, especially during the hole shot.
My dealer said a ballpark cost to replace my control is around $300 for the control and 1-1.5 hours labor. So with tax and labor, figuring $500. Than includes the two cables.
Since I'm having them change out the control, is this the same time I should change to hydraulic steering? (The dealer told me not to change to hydraulic steering until I needed new steering.)

Warren
diveorfish posted 09-09-2011 05:36 PM ET (US)
Which dealer are you refering to? Have you checked Bucks Outboard?
WT posted 09-09-2011 06:02 PM ET (US)
I went to school with Jerry at Buck's Outboard but have been only dealing with my Boston Whaler dealer, The Outboard Motor Shop.
Buck's has a great reputation and is only a few miles from my home. OMS is 90 miles. I know I might pay a little more, and it cost me in time and towing but I still like dealing with my dealer.
Maybe I should reconsider?
Warren
WT posted 09-09-2011 06:06 PM ET (US)
diveorfish, your recommendation of Radial Tire Service was a great one.
Thanks,
Warren
Ferdinando posted 09-11-2011 07:04 AM ET (US)
I have a 2008 190 and I had the very same shifter problems from day one exactly. Took it to the dealer and he said everything is fine nothing wrong with it. Almost pulled my wife off the dock one day. Called Merc and they said the did not have a problem with their shifters.
Resolved the problem once and for all by putting an E-Tec on the transom.
swist posted 09-11-2011 08:23 AM ET (US)
There is no great solution to this problem that isn't expensive. But to my mind, spending $500 simply to put the same control back in makes no sense, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a new and a worn unit, since they act worn out when they are new.
However, I certainly admire WT for having developed enough "touch" on that control to go in and out of gear that much without grinding the gears into oblivion.
sosmerc posted 09-11-2011 12:03 PM ET (US)
I am currently in the process of rigging an older Montauk with a new F90 Merc. I talked my customer in to using a new MT-3 control along with the new Teleflex Extreme cables. I will report how it all turned out when the job is complete.
I too hate the way most Merc control boxes work, but alot has to do with proper installation, cable routing and engine adjustments. I've noticed that the late model Merc L4NA engines have a detent for the upper shift shaft built into the exhaust adapter plate. I remove that and put some grease in there and then re-install it. Also, the newer L4NA lower units are now using the EZ shift design and seem to be easier to shift. Again, I am hoping that with these improvements, along with the smooth operation of the MT-3 control and the new cables, it will be a dream to run.
I am also anxious to see how this new engine performs on the old Montauk. My customer previously had a 1988 Yamaha 90hp 2 stroke. His lower unit died so he decided to step up to a new 4 stroke.
WT posted 09-11-2011 12:26 PM ET (US)
sosmerc, please report back with your impressions of your installation. I too have the LN4 (Veradito) outboard on my 170 Montauk.
Where are you going to install the power trim switch?
Warren
WT posted 09-11-2011 12:51 PM ET (US)
Here is a control replacement option for my 170 Montauk. It's the Teleflex CH7500 series control along with the Extreme cables.
The MT-3 would look great on a classic Montauk but maybe I should stick with a non-classic look for my 170 Montauk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/ Teleflexcontrolfor170Montauk.gif
Warren
sosmerc posted 09-11-2011 09:04 PM ET (US)
To the right of the control there used to be a small square depthsounder. Since that was no longer functional, I replaced it with an OMC dash mount trim switch that covers the hole nicely. For myself, I would have preferred to have a trim switch in the handle, but since he is used to an on-dash switch, and most likely will do very little trimming, it will be fine for him.
I am starting with a 21 pitch stock aluminum Merc prop with a flotorq III hub. I have the engine mounted 4 holes up from stock...pretty high, but I'll bet it will work. If not, I will try and talk him into a Laser II or Rapture or something that I KNOW will work.
The previous Yamaha 90 used the lower "blind" holes for mounting.....I had to putty those up, and then carefully decide what holes to use on the Merc. The transom setup does NOT accommodate using the standard Merc lower holes. I mounted the engine where I wanted it using only the top holes...and then figured out where to drill the lower holes such that they would clear the bottom of the well, and still allow me the option of lowering the engine at least 1 hole without any redrilling.
Mounting the MT-3 was a bit of a pain on this console because it looked as if at least 2 different controls had been previously used on this boat. I made an aluminum template for the control and have mounted that on the console and will then use a scroll saw to make the cutout following the rigid template. I'll have about 2 hours just into installing the new control. The rest of the rigging should be a piece of cake as the Smartcraft System Monitor will fit in the previous tach hole and I will use the old conventional pitot speedo on the opposite side.
I am anxious to see how the F90 does on this hull. My gut feeling says it will be fine and he will like the smooth, silent running of the F90.
WT posted 09-11-2011 09:17 PM ET (US)
sosmerc, do you know of any pros and cons of the Teleflex CH7500 controls for my 170 Montauk? I'm hoping it is much better than a replacement Mercury control.
I'll bet the classic Montauk with the new Mercury FourStroke will top out at 47-48 mph. My same motor pushes my heavier 170 Montauk to 44-45mph with a 20 inch prop.
Keep us posted.
Warren
russellbailey posted 09-12-2011 09:55 AM ET (US)
WT,
I called and spoke with the contact person at Teleflex for controls about the difference in the MT3 and the 7500/7800. He told me that the 7500/7800 used the MT3 mechanism as the starting point but was further refined and should be even smoother.
I plan to replace my worn dual control with a 7800 this winter.
Sixer posted 09-12-2011 10:37 AM ET (US)
Warren, Teleflex offers an option that allows moving the tilt control button to a lever on the steering wheel, similar to a cars turn signal lever. Might work nicely with the Morse MT-3. I have been considering this, as well as their tilt wheel for my 170.
sosmerc posted 09-12-2011 12:15 PM ET (US)
I have no experience with the CH7500. I did research it as an option and the "footprint" looked to be too large for the available surface on the older Montauk. It's a good looking control and most likely works better than Merc's control.
How high is your engine mounted on your 170?
WT posted 09-12-2011 12:35 PM ET (US)
Thanks on the feedback, everyone. I probably won't see my dealer for another month, so I'll keep everyone posted regarding my choice/installation.
My motor is mounted 4 holes up, so I could move it up one more hole.
Warren
sosmerc posted 09-12-2011 04:59 PM ET (US)
I ordered a like-new 22 HighFive to try just in case I am up a tad too high for the stock aluminum 21. Merc doesn't offer the HighFive for the 40 to 125hp engines that use the Bigfoot gearcase anymore.....too bad as they are great props.
Maybe they will offer an aluminum 5 blade someday for these Mid-range engines.
sosmerc posted 09-12-2011 05:02 PM ET (US)
Meant to add that I am currently mounted such that I can go up one more hole or down one hole.
sosmerc posted 09-15-2011 11:11 AM ET (US)
Ok, the owner and I took out the old Montauk with the new F90 that I just completed rigging with the MT-3 control.
The engine runs flawlessly and the 21 pitch aluminum Black diamond prop worked great, even at the extreme height the engine was mounted. (I even snagged a non-current 22 Pitch HighFive prop just in case the aluminum didn't work)....guess I have a new prop in my arsenal for future use.
Back to the control.....I must say that I was a bit disappointed in that it was difficult to hit a clean neutral when shifting out of gear. I don't blame the control...it works great when the engine is not running and someone just turns the prop. So it is the torque of the engine and the nature of the gearcase shifting system.
The throttle is smooth as silk and the owner was very pleased.
The engine is so quiet that now you hear EVERY loose piece of railing rattling away :)
My customer is a very conservative boater so we did not "open her up"...but I can tell you it is going to be plenty fast!
It cruises easily at under 4000 rpm and the boat is doing 32 on the GPS. The F90 is a sweet engine and it is luring me away from the 2 stroke.
WT posted 09-15-2011 03:40 PM ET (US)
"So it is the torque of the engine and the nature of the gearcase shifting system."
Wonderful. :-(
Our 140 hp Suzuki Fourstroke on Strike3 (21 foot Revenge prototype) has a nice "click" into and out of neutral. I was hoping I could duplicate that shift response on my 170 Montauk.
I called Mercury Marine and my 90 hp Outboard is not compatible with the Mercury DTS system of controls. BUMMER.
Warren
diveorfish posted 09-15-2011 05:52 PM ET (US)
Warren: I know how you feel about dealership loyalty, but OMB is thirty percent more than Bucks and Bucks gives quality service. Give them a shot. If I just need engine service I go to Bucks. If I need boat service I goto OMB.
I try to spread it around, but at the end of the day it costs me $100 to tow my rig to OMB.
sosmerc posted 09-15-2011 08:58 PM ET (US)
WT.....I look forward to spending more time dealing with this "issue". I was rather under the gun to get this one out quick as I am leaving on vacation tomorrow and wanted to get this job out and down the road before I left.
My next step would be to try shifting the engine manually back at the engine to see what kind of resistance is there.
My guess is quite alot with the engine running (torque being the problem).
Maybe what Merc needs to do is employ an "interrupt switch" like they do with sterndrives.....the engine actually stumbles a few cylinders during the shift process to reduce the torque and make shifting easier. The do this on some of the 3.0 litre carb and EFI Outboards as well. It does work and would be a good solution.
And yes, one of the great advantages to fly-by-wire throttle and shift (DTS) is ease of both shifting and throttle control.
Adds quite a bit of complication though and maybe "keep it simple" is better in the long run.
tedious posted 09-16-2011 08:36 AM ET (US)
Wow. If I had a new motor that wouldn't reliably drop into neutral, it would be going right back to the dealer and / or manufacturer - that's a major safety problem.
I can't figure why this is so difficult. My 20+ year old OMC and both of my newer motors are flawless - I never give it a thought and it drops right into neutral.
Tim
swist posted 09-16-2011 10:46 AM ET (US)
I agree with you Tim. I have had many shifters and this was the first one that did not have a definite "click" not only into neutral, but also in and out of idle. Someone savvy explain to me how this is an engine problem? Despite the FOURSTROKE modern powerhead, as far as I can see from the repair manual, the lower unit design looks more or less the same as they have for years - there is no slop in the gearcase - neutral is neutral.
And as far as it being some sort of adjustment issue, my (very comptetent) Merc mechanic says not really.
WT posted 09-16-2011 01:53 PM ET (US)
Okay, I called my dealer and said I hate my current control because I have to hunt for neutral. I said I have a Suzuki 140 that has a nice "click" into and out of neutral, and that I want to duplicate the type of "shift".
I asked if a lot of 170 Montauk owners have changed out their controls. He said, NONE.
He said my Mercury gearbox is spring loaded and the Suzuki gearbox is not. So changing out the control will not get me that "Suzuki" type shift.
He does not recommend that I blow money on a new control/cable system. He says worse case is that my shifter needs replacement because it is worn out, but he doubts that. He also doubts that I need to change my cables. He thinks it just needs adjustments.
Bottom line, our 170 Montauk shifter "feel" can not be improved much.
I'll report back after I have them "wrench" on my setup.
Warren

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: 170 Montauk shifter replacement
WT	posted 09-07-2011 03:45 PM ET (US) I have a 2004 170 Montauk and I hate my shifter. My dealer hasn't seen my shifter problem first hand but thinks that the detent on the shifter my have worn out. While my boat is in gear, I have to continually hunt for neutral with my current shifter. My last docking at Bodega Bay, I thought I was in neutral and was actually in gear (reverse). As you can imagine, that can cause stress levels to rise. Other than replacing my current shifter with the factory model, are there any top of the line shifters that members here can recommend? Thanks, Warren
swist	posted 09-07-2011 04:36 PM ET (US) I have the same boat and same shifter. It is a piece of junk - the detents are very vague and as you state, neutral is also very approximate. It is also impossible to adjust the resistance properly. If it's too loose and hitting a bump causes the throttle to move, and you tighten it about 1/100 of a turn, then it becomes difficult to move at all. I never looked into it either because I've become used to it to a certain extent, and assumed that any replacement would either be expensive and/or complex. But maybe this thread will solicit some ideas.
L H G	posted 09-07-2011 05:22 PM ET (US) WT - Do you have this control? http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Montauk%2017/?action=view& current=Scan_Pic0030.jpg Or do you have Mercury's more recent model? Both are still available new. Chance are that the control is NOT bad or worn out. There are several things could be checked first, before discarding it: 1. Adjustments to the control itself, mainly shift detents and friction settings. 2. Cable adjustments at the engine. This is the most common problem in hard working controls, particularly when coming out of forward to neutral. The cause is either too much, or not enough, throttle cable pressure on the engine stop. Make sure there is adequate grease at the engine end, and in the control also. 3. Bad or worn out cables. If you need new ones, buy TELEFLEX top of the line "XTREME" grade. They are incredibly smooth working and can take sharp bends if needed. I think they are better than Mercury's premium gray "platinum" line. If none of this works, then you may truly have a worn out control in need of replacement. For a super, super smooth and solid functioning control, with classic look, get a Morse MT-3, with the red groove chrome knob upgrade. Still one of the best units out there other than Mercury's DTS controls. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=Scan_Pic0005.jpg The downside with the classic Morse MT-3 is that you will need a separate Mercury Power Trim panel, and convenient place to install it in the console. It is a simple plug-in item to the ignition harness, however. Cost is about $75. Also with the Morse, you will need a teak or Starboard plate under the control to cover the slightly larger hole from the Merc control. I used a 3/8" thick piece of solid teak, varnished.
WT	posted 09-07-2011 07:10 PM ET (US) Hi Larry: Here is a picture of my shifter. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Montauk170/DSC_5460.jpg When I go drift fishing for rock cod, it would not be unusual to shift into and out of gear 50-100 times per day, depending upon how fast the water might be pushing the boat around. I'm sure I have gotten my money's worth out of this control. I love the look of the Morse control and like the ones with the red ball. I'll do some snooping around. But I do like having the power trim button on the shifter, especially during the hole shot. My dealer said a ballpark cost to replace my control is around $300 for the control and 1-1.5 hours labor. So with tax and labor, figuring $500. Than includes the two cables. Since I'm having them change out the control, is this the same time I should change to hydraulic steering? (The dealer told me not to change to hydraulic steering until I needed new steering.) Warren
diveorfish	posted 09-09-2011 05:36 PM ET (US) Which dealer are you refering to? Have you checked Bucks Outboard?
WT	posted 09-09-2011 06:02 PM ET (US) I went to school with Jerry at Buck's Outboard but have been only dealing with my Boston Whaler dealer, The Outboard Motor Shop. Buck's has a great reputation and is only a few miles from my home. OMS is 90 miles. I know I might pay a little more, and it cost me in time and towing but I still like dealing with my dealer. Maybe I should reconsider? Warren
WT	posted 09-09-2011 06:06 PM ET (US) diveorfish, your recommendation of Radial Tire Service was a great one. Thanks, Warren
Ferdinando	posted 09-11-2011 07:04 AM ET (US) I have a 2008 190 and I had the very same shifter problems from day one exactly. Took it to the dealer and he said everything is fine nothing wrong with it. Almost pulled my wife off the dock one day. Called Merc and they said the did not have a problem with their shifters. Resolved the problem once and for all by putting an E-Tec on the transom.
swist	posted 09-11-2011 08:23 AM ET (US) There is no great solution to this problem that isn't expensive. But to my mind, spending $500 simply to put the same control back in makes no sense, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a new and a worn unit, since they act worn out when they are new. However, I certainly admire WT for having developed enough "touch" on that control to go in and out of gear that much without grinding the gears into oblivion.
sosmerc	posted 09-11-2011 12:03 PM ET (US) I am currently in the process of rigging an older Montauk with a new F90 Merc. I talked my customer in to using a new MT-3 control along with the new Teleflex Extreme cables. I will report how it all turned out when the job is complete. I too hate the way most Merc control boxes work, but alot has to do with proper installation, cable routing and engine adjustments. I've noticed that the late model Merc L4NA engines have a detent for the upper shift shaft built into the exhaust adapter plate. I remove that and put some grease in there and then re-install it. Also, the newer L4NA lower units are now using the EZ shift design and seem to be easier to shift. Again, I am hoping that with these improvements, along with the smooth operation of the MT-3 control and the new cables, it will be a dream to run. I am also anxious to see how this new engine performs on the old Montauk. My customer previously had a 1988 Yamaha 90hp 2 stroke. His lower unit died so he decided to step up to a new 4 stroke.
WT	posted 09-11-2011 12:26 PM ET (US) sosmerc, please report back with your impressions of your installation. I too have the LN4 (Veradito) outboard on my 170 Montauk. Where are you going to install the power trim switch? Warren
WT	posted 09-11-2011 12:51 PM ET (US) Here is a control replacement option for my 170 Montauk. It's the Teleflex CH7500 series control along with the Extreme cables. The MT-3 would look great on a classic Montauk but maybe I should stick with a non-classic look for my 170 Montauk. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/ Teleflexcontrolfor170Montauk.gif Warren
sosmerc	posted 09-11-2011 09:04 PM ET (US) To the right of the control there used to be a small square depthsounder. Since that was no longer functional, I replaced it with an OMC dash mount trim switch that covers the hole nicely. For myself, I would have preferred to have a trim switch in the handle, but since he is used to an on-dash switch, and most likely will do very little trimming, it will be fine for him. I am starting with a 21 pitch stock aluminum Merc prop with a flotorq III hub. I have the engine mounted 4 holes up from stock...pretty high, but I'll bet it will work. If not, I will try and talk him into a Laser II or Rapture or something that I KNOW will work. The previous Yamaha 90 used the lower "blind" holes for mounting.....I had to putty those up, and then carefully decide what holes to use on the Merc. The transom setup does NOT accommodate using the standard Merc lower holes. I mounted the engine where I wanted it using only the top holes...and then figured out where to drill the lower holes such that they would clear the bottom of the well, and still allow me the option of lowering the engine at least 1 hole without any redrilling. Mounting the MT-3 was a bit of a pain on this console because it looked as if at least 2 different controls had been previously used on this boat. I made an aluminum template for the control and have mounted that on the console and will then use a scroll saw to make the cutout following the rigid template. I'll have about 2 hours just into installing the new control. The rest of the rigging should be a piece of cake as the Smartcraft System Monitor will fit in the previous tach hole and I will use the old conventional pitot speedo on the opposite side. I am anxious to see how the F90 does on this hull. My gut feeling says it will be fine and he will like the smooth, silent running of the F90.
WT	posted 09-11-2011 09:17 PM ET (US) sosmerc, do you know of any pros and cons of the Teleflex CH7500 controls for my 170 Montauk? I'm hoping it is much better than a replacement Mercury control. I'll bet the classic Montauk with the new Mercury FourStroke will top out at 47-48 mph. My same motor pushes my heavier 170 Montauk to 44-45mph with a 20 inch prop. Keep us posted. Warren
russellbailey	posted 09-12-2011 09:55 AM ET (US) WT, I called and spoke with the contact person at Teleflex for controls about the difference in the MT3 and the 7500/7800. He told me that the 7500/7800 used the MT3 mechanism as the starting point but was further refined and should be even smoother. I plan to replace my worn dual control with a 7800 this winter.
Sixer	posted 09-12-2011 10:37 AM ET (US) Warren, Teleflex offers an option that allows moving the tilt control button to a lever on the steering wheel, similar to a cars turn signal lever. Might work nicely with the Morse MT-3. I have been considering this, as well as their tilt wheel for my 170.
sosmerc	posted 09-12-2011 12:15 PM ET (US) I have no experience with the CH7500. I did research it as an option and the "footprint" looked to be too large for the available surface on the older Montauk. It's a good looking control and most likely works better than Merc's control. How high is your engine mounted on your 170?
WT	posted 09-12-2011 12:35 PM ET (US) Thanks on the feedback, everyone. I probably won't see my dealer for another month, so I'll keep everyone posted regarding my choice/installation. My motor is mounted 4 holes up, so I could move it up one more hole. Warren
sosmerc	posted 09-12-2011 04:59 PM ET (US) I ordered a like-new 22 HighFive to try just in case I am up a tad too high for the stock aluminum 21. Merc doesn't offer the HighFive for the 40 to 125hp engines that use the Bigfoot gearcase anymore.....too bad as they are great props. Maybe they will offer an aluminum 5 blade someday for these Mid-range engines.
sosmerc	posted 09-12-2011 05:02 PM ET (US) Meant to add that I am currently mounted such that I can go up one more hole or down one hole.
sosmerc	posted 09-15-2011 11:11 AM ET (US) Ok, the owner and I took out the old Montauk with the new F90 that I just completed rigging with the MT-3 control. The engine runs flawlessly and the 21 pitch aluminum Black diamond prop worked great, even at the extreme height the engine was mounted. (I even snagged a non-current 22 Pitch HighFive prop just in case the aluminum didn't work)....guess I have a new prop in my arsenal for future use. Back to the control.....I must say that I was a bit disappointed in that it was difficult to hit a clean neutral when shifting out of gear. I don't blame the control...it works great when the engine is not running and someone just turns the prop. So it is the torque of the engine and the nature of the gearcase shifting system. The throttle is smooth as silk and the owner was very pleased. The engine is so quiet that now you hear EVERY loose piece of railing rattling away :) My customer is a very conservative boater so we did not "open her up"...but I can tell you it is going to be plenty fast! It cruises easily at under 4000 rpm and the boat is doing 32 on the GPS. The F90 is a sweet engine and it is luring me away from the 2 stroke.
WT	posted 09-15-2011 03:40 PM ET (US) "So it is the torque of the engine and the nature of the gearcase shifting system." Wonderful. :-( Our 140 hp Suzuki Fourstroke on Strike3 (21 foot Revenge prototype) has a nice "click" into and out of neutral. I was hoping I could duplicate that shift response on my 170 Montauk. I called Mercury Marine and my 90 hp Outboard is not compatible with the Mercury DTS system of controls. BUMMER. Warren
diveorfish	posted 09-15-2011 05:52 PM ET (US) Warren: I know how you feel about dealership loyalty, but OMB is thirty percent more than Bucks and Bucks gives quality service. Give them a shot. If I just need engine service I go to Bucks. If I need boat service I goto OMB. I try to spread it around, but at the end of the day it costs me $100 to tow my rig to OMB.
sosmerc	posted 09-15-2011 08:58 PM ET (US) WT.....I look forward to spending more time dealing with this "issue". I was rather under the gun to get this one out quick as I am leaving on vacation tomorrow and wanted to get this job out and down the road before I left. My next step would be to try shifting the engine manually back at the engine to see what kind of resistance is there. My guess is quite alot with the engine running (torque being the problem). Maybe what Merc needs to do is employ an "interrupt switch" like they do with sterndrives.....the engine actually stumbles a few cylinders during the shift process to reduce the torque and make shifting easier. The do this on some of the 3.0 litre carb and EFI Outboards as well. It does work and would be a good solution. And yes, one of the great advantages to fly-by-wire throttle and shift (DTS) is ease of both shifting and throttle control. Adds quite a bit of complication though and maybe "keep it simple" is better in the long run.
tedious	posted 09-16-2011 08:36 AM ET (US) Wow. If I had a new motor that wouldn't reliably drop into neutral, it would be going right back to the dealer and / or manufacturer - that's a major safety problem. I can't figure why this is so difficult. My 20+ year old OMC and both of my newer motors are flawless - I never give it a thought and it drops right into neutral. Tim
swist	posted 09-16-2011 10:46 AM ET (US) I agree with you Tim. I have had many shifters and this was the first one that did not have a definite "click" not only into neutral, but also in and out of idle. Someone savvy explain to me how this is an engine problem? Despite the FOURSTROKE modern powerhead, as far as I can see from the repair manual, the lower unit design looks more or less the same as they have for years - there is no slop in the gearcase - neutral is neutral. And as far as it being some sort of adjustment issue, my (very comptetent) Merc mechanic says not really.
WT	posted 09-16-2011 01:53 PM ET (US) Okay, I called my dealer and said I hate my current control because I have to hunt for neutral. I said I have a Suzuki 140 that has a nice "click" into and out of neutral, and that I want to duplicate the type of "shift". I asked if a lot of 170 Montauk owners have changed out their controls. He said, NONE. He said my Mercury gearbox is spring loaded and the Suzuki gearbox is not. So changing out the control will not get me that "Suzuki" type shift. He does not recommend that I blow money on a new control/cable system. He says worse case is that my shifter needs replacement because it is worn out, but he doubts that. He also doubts that I need to change my cables. He thinks it just needs adjustments. Bottom line, our 170 Montauk shifter "feel" can not be improved much. I'll report back after I have them "wrench" on my setup. Warren