Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

A conversation among Whalers
mbaum3
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Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby mbaum3 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:43 am

For a trailer to be used in saltwater and freshwater, what are the advantages or disadvantages of:

—stainless steel brake rotors?

—electrical brake control?

mbaum3
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:02 pm

Re: Trailer for Whaler Drive Boat

Postby mbaum3 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:45 am

Among Loadmaster, LoadRite, E-Z-Loader, and Venture trailer brands [which brand is preferred?]

[Moderator’s note: the above question has been inferred from the original post which did not ask a question.]

jimh
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:07 am

Re trailer brake systems:

I don’t think electric drum brakes are useful in saltwater due to corrosion.

Hydraulic trailer disc brakes cannot be actuated by electrical solenoids, and are always actuated hydraulically.

Hydraulic trailer brake actuators can be controlled by surge hitch-coupler brake actuators or by electrically operated hydraulic pumps. The latter are usually actuated by brake controllers on the tow vehicle, and the system is called electric-over-hydraulic.

Since the portion of the trailer immersed in the sea water is the same for either surge-actuated or electric-over-hydraulic, the water’s salinity is not an influence on the choice of the actuating mechanism.

I have no opinion on stainless steel rotors. Talk with the manufacturer to get their advice on stainless steel rotors.

ASIDE: my own trailer has a surge actuator and hydraulic drum brakes, but I am now a 99.9-percent pure, cold, freshwater boater. Were I doing any saltwater trailer immersion on a regular basis, I would get disc brakes.

jimh
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:16 am

I am not clear what criteria you want to use for trailer brand evaluation.

My 1992 E-Z-LOADER trailer has worked well for my 24-foot boat for 29-years and probably 30,000-miles of highway trailering. I wrote a comprehensive article on all repairs made over that time span.

See
Trailer Refurbishment: 1992 E-Z-LOADER
viewtopic.php?t=3874

Jefecinco
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:33 am

Electric over hydraulic brakes are used on some boat trailers but usually on larger, heavier boats. An advantage is being able to use the electric brake controller to actuate the trailer brakes whenever desired. Disadvantages include much higher cost, adding an electric brake controller to the tow vehicle and adjusting the "sensitivity" on the controller.

My experience with electrical brake controllers while towing an RV trailer taught me to avoid the experience whenever possible. It seemed the sensitivity adjustment needed almost daily attention.

Stainless steel disc brakes last much longer for saltwater use.

I recommend the standard hydraulic surge brakes for boat trailers.
Butch

MarkCz
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby MarkCz » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:02 pm

You can also buy stainless steel disk brake calipers. Kodiac sells them and I have read many people swear by them for use in saltwater.

dtmackey
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby dtmackey » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:25 pm

I made the switch to Kodiak Stainless years ago and they are a very nice system with no problems at all. There are others out there, but I've heard many problems with plated caliper and plated rotors not lasting. We swapped my friend’s trailer over to Kodiak brakes from TieDown brakes on both axles.

D-

porthole
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby porthole » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:24 pm

I've been using electric over hydraulic disc brakes on RV's for over 10 years now. I'll never revert to the older types.

When I redo the brakes on my current two-axle 23- to 25-foot trailer, the brakes will be all stainless with an electric over hydraulic actuator.

The only advantage I see with the surge type actuators is no adjustment from the user is required between empty and loaded.

For the EoH actuators it literally take seconds to adjust the gain.

The downside to surge type is many people don't even know if their trailer brakes actually work. In over 25-years of buying used trailer boats (personally or with my part time with TowboatUS) I don't ever recall picking up a trailer with working surge brakes.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
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Jefecinco
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby Jefecinco » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:06 am

Thanks for the information. I was unaware that RVs now use EOH brakes. When we were towing a fifth wheel RV the brakes were straight electric. The drum brakes were actuated by solenoid if I remember correctly. Solenoid failure was not uncommon. Disc brakes for RVs were unknown.

I understand new pickups with optional towing packages include a built in brake controller which is supposedly automatic and adjusts gain depending upon vehicle speed and other factors. The aftermarket electric brake controllers we used required manual gain adjustment and they were not what you would consider reliable in maintaining the setting.

EOH brakes on boat trailers may do very well with the new, built-in, controllers.
Butch

jimh
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby jimh » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:37 am

When towing my boat trailer the total towed weight is over 5,000-lbs. I can tell if the trailer surge brakes are not working as soon as I apply the truck brakes. The braking response between with-trailer-brakes-working and with-no-trailer-brakes is very distinct. The trailer has brakes on both axles.

My long-distance trailering days are over. Were I still hauling the boat on long highway trips, I would consider refitting with disc brakes on the trailer. But I don’t anticipate any saltwater use, and I just installed a new surge coupler, so I would be unlikely to go to electric over hydraulic. If I changed to disc brakes I would need to add a valve to defeat the brakes for backing up. I already have on hand the correct master cylinder assembly for the surge coupler for disc brakes—it is a different model than for drum brakes.

By the way, my trailer is wired with the big seven pin connector, and I wouldn’t have to redo that for electric over hydraulic brakes or for a brake valve solenoid. I was planning ahead, but just never made the change from drum brakes.

jimh
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:14 pm

Regarding disadvantages of various trailer brake methods:

The Electric-Over-Hydraulic (EOH) brake actuators generally require a 12-Volt high-current circuit be provided to the trailer from the towing vehicle to operate the electric motor for the hydraulic pump and a local battery as back-up. This local battery on the trailer is required so that the trailer brakes can be actuated if the trailer breaks away from the towing vehicle and the 12-Volt circuit from the towing vehicle is broken.

The local battery charge is typically maintained by a local battery charger that gets its primary power from the 12-Volt circuit high-current circuit from the towing vehicle.

Of course, the local battery needs a battery box to contain the battery.

To prevent theft, the battery box should have a locking system.

And EOH brakes require an electrical switch with lanyard to actuate the local battery to run the pump to apply the brakes if the trailer brakes away.

Of course, the trailer still requires a hitch coupler. Actually, finding a good hitch coupler for a boat trailer with a single center trailer frame element without a surge brake actuator is a bit harder than finding one with a surge brake actuator. Many of the non-surge brake actuators are made for trailer frames that joint to frame elements into a vee at the hitch.

In summary, for a boat trailer with a single channel beam element at the hitch, for electric-over-hydraulic brakes you must install at the front of the trailer :
  • a new hitch coupler without surge brakes
  • a new trailer electrical fitting with the 7-pole standard plug
  • an electric-hydraulic pump brake actuator
  • a breakaway 12-Volt battery of about 10-Ampere-hour capacity
  • a battery box with lock
  • a battery charger, and
  • a break away electrical switch with lanyard to detect the break away from the towing vehicle and operates the brake actuator pump

A "breakaway kit" with battery box, charger, battery, and breakaway switch is about $90. For periodic replacement. a typical 10-Ampere-hour lead-acid 12-Volt battery will weigh about 7-lbs and cost about $55. Figure the weight for all at 10-lbs.

A Dexter DX Series Electric Over Hydraulic Brake Actuator for Disc Brakes rated for 1,600-PSI costs about $800 and weighs 30-lbs.

A Titan straight tongue 2-5/16-inch-ball 3-inch channel coupler costs about $200. The weight will about the same as a surge coupler.

A quick total of cost of parts gives a figure of about $1,100 for EOH brake re-fit. The added weight compared to the surge coupler is about 40-lbs.

As a result of adding all of those components, a system of EOH brakes will add considerable weight to the trailer--and at the worst place, the tongue. Tongue weight is generally the limiting factor in many towing situations because most of the tongue weight is borne by rear axle of the towing vehicle. If tongue weight becomes too high, the boat position on the trailer may have to be moved aft to reduce the tongue weight contributed by the boat weight.

The rear axle weight load can become surprising close to the axle weight rating limit when tongue weight is high. Upon the first weighing of my boat, trailer, and towing vehicle (a 7,000-lbs tow-rating GMC truck,) I discovered the rear axle load was only 88-lbs below the maximum rated load, which was surprising because the boat and trailer together were only 5,600-lbs, or 80-percent of the towed weight rating. I subsequently moved the boat farther back on the trailer to reduce tongue weight from 520-lbs to

In additional to the added components to the trailer, the towing vehicle must also have the following provisions:
  • a 7-pole trailer connector; in many instances this is not always provided in the towing vehicle unless a special towing package was ordered
  • a 40-Ampere fused circuit running into that 7-pole connector; in many instances this is not always provided in the towing vehicle unless a special towing package was ordered, but may be available with addition of a fuse (best case) or connecting loose conductors in the harness at each end (less than the best case); and,
  • an electric brake proportional actuator mechanism.

In summary, the conversion of an existing boat trailer and the typical towing vehicle with the common flat-four or perhaps flat-five socket at the hitch to accommodate electric-over-hydraulic brakes is not simple, quick, and inexpensive.

dtmackey
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Re: Trailer Brands; Trailer Brakes

Postby dtmackey » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:29 pm

Interesting topic with many opinions.

I actually have electric and surge brakes, but on differnt trailers of variying purposes.

For my double axle dump trailer and car trailers they are fully electric and the controller is pre-installed in the truck, so it's plug and play. It's nice because you can adjust the level of braking based on load and fully integrated into the tow vehicle (factory installed) and works great.

One of my boat trailers (not for my Whaler) is a surge system and has worked great, but at the 24 year mark, the rotors were showing wear so I looked into replacing them. The system was made by Nulls and rotors and calipers were solid bronze and at $700 per rotor (it has 4), I decided it wasn't worth the cost and converted to Kodiak full stainless system and 7 years later they are still working great. I did replace the coupler at the same time because I felt it was the right thing to do. I am a salt water boater and the trailer gets a freshwater rinse after each use and no extra attention other than pre-season inspection and wheel bearing grease. Personally I feel the need for elecrttic over hydraulic is added cost and complexity and not needed if you are going with a good quality braking system.

As far as knowing if trailer brakes are working, I ALWAYS test my brakes to make sure things are working as they should before setting out on the road, whether this is with my electric brake equipped trailers or surge boat trailer.

Link to Nulls. http://www.nullsmachine.net/3900bronze.html

D-