1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

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HappyHour
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1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Fri May 07, 2021 5:41 pm

I am looking for a bigger Outrage, preferably with Whaler Drive. I now came across a 1981 Outrage V-22 with Sterndrve.

Q1: Has any reader experience with an c.1981 OUTRAGE V-22 Sternrdive?

A 1981 boat is now 40-years-old. This particular boat seems to be well looked after.

Any comments on this particular model are very welcome.

--Jan

jimh
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby jimh » Fri May 07, 2021 5:45 pm

The sterndrive option puts a very big hole in the transom. To convert to outboard engine power will required substantial modification.

Q2: Are you anticipating remaining with a 40-year-old sterndrive?

Another name for a sterndrive: "a mechanic's annuity."

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Fri May 07, 2021 5:58 pm

The sterndrive is from the early 1990's, but that is still old. If anything I would probably put in another sterndrive and not switch to an outboard configuration. This is the way the boat was set up--I suppose--and I would stick with that.

Q3: Why would you consider the sterndrive to be a money pit?

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Phil T
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Phil T » Fri May 07, 2021 7:30 pm

Many owners dislike the inboards.

While they take up a bit more interior room, the closed transom is nice.

Given the scarcity of loose outboards, I would say its a good thing you have a sterndrive.
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HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Sat May 08, 2021 7:34 am

I don't mind the inboard, there are pro's and con's for both inboard and outboards, I like the closed transom (just like with the Whaler Drive configuration). Is the V-22 the first in the new hull shape that Boston Whaler introduced in the early 80's ? Is this the same throughout the Outrage series from that era ?

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Jefecinco » Sat May 08, 2021 10:08 am

Sterndrive propelled boats are less desirable if used in salt water. Use in salt water is particularly aggravated if the boat is to remain in a wet slip or on a mooring. Current sterndrive offerings are more salt water tolerant and replacement of the one on the V-22 would probably be a long range money saver.

Seawater cooled inboard engines are also prone to failure and the exhaust manifolds are particularly prone to failure which often leads to further engine damage. An inboard engine with full freshwater cooling is far more desirable.

Given the age of the engine/drive on the V-22 it may be a good candidate for a full repower with modern system.

I believe a sterndrive system would be less expensive to replace than the installation of a new outboard engine and would avoid the cost of the fiberglass work required.
Butch

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby jimh » Sat May 08, 2021 11:46 am

The durability and thus the longevity of a sterndrive engine is related to the water it will be used in.

In northern, colder, freshwater, a sterndrive engine could last 50-years. My favorite story is from a fellow I met who was cruising around in a small fiberglass runabout powered by a four-cylinder sterndrive. It was a c.1960's boat with original engine. He bought it for $300--but the boat was on the bottom of a freshwater lake in extreme northern Michigan. He raised the boat, soaked the engine in oil, and got it running again.

In tropical saltwater, sterndrive power is not very popular, particularly if raw-water cooled. Hot exhausts and saltwater make for corrosion of steel.

The other significant problem with a sterndrive is the rubber seal at the transom. A leak there will sink most boats. But, of course, not a Boston Whaler.

Most engines in sterndrives are converted automobile engines with iron blocks. At one time they were very inexpensive and very plentiful. The latest versions from MerCruiser are now using their own engine blocks, made by Mercury. The automakers don't make that many old V8 iron block replacement engines these days.

The transmission of engine drive shaft power through the complex two-90-degree bends and rotating drive gears of the sterndrive propulsion mechanism are also areas for concern.

There are still very high-horsepower stern drives being using on go-fast boats and big cruisers. Whether a c.1981 sterndrive engine and drive mechanism will prove reliable is probably hard to predict.

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am

Thanks for your insights, I have just agreed to buy the V-22 and we will see how she performs. In a couple of years we may replace the engine for a new MerCruiser but for now we will give it a try. I am really glad to be a Boston Whaler owner again, all we need to do is ship her from the US to Europe, a 16 day trip but well on time for the summer holidays ;-)

Might be picking your brains a little more when we start using her.

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Phil T
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Phil T » Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm

Congrats J!
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rcapriola
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby rcapriola » Thu May 13, 2021 11:15 am

I own a 1980 REVENGE V-22 with a rebuilt Mercruiser [engine] and the original outdrive.

If you have always run outboard engine [then running an inboard engine with sterndrive will] put you onto a learning curve.

[On the 1980 REVENGE V-22 with Sterndrive] I have replaced the trim pump motor, the reverse lockout, and fuel tank.

[The propulsion engine] is starting to overheat at cruising speed. I replaced the [water pump] impeller in 2020, one year ago.

I am now considering a complete re-power with a new V8 engine, a new Mercruiser Bravo outdrive, and all new associated steering and shift cables. These new components are going to cost about $25,000, and their installation will cost another $5,000.
1980 Revenge V-22 Sterndrive

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Thu May 13, 2021 4:13 pm

PHIL--I am very excited.

I wanted to travel to the U.S.A to pick up [the 1981 OUTRAGE V-22 Sterndrive boat] before [the boat was[ shipped out, but Covid travel restrictions prevented that from happening. Now we have to wait for arrival here in Europe in early June 2021.

I am not too worried about engine trouble. An outboard engine that age would also be a risk.

I have been looking [at re-power options]. A new MerCruiser V6 with Alpha One outdrive would be around $20,000 and an addition $2,000 for installation.

We intend to keep this [1981 OUTRAGE V-22] boat in the family for a long time. The family loves the classic Outrage model. We don't mind spending money in the right places. The [1981 OUTRAGE V-22] is a 40-year-old boat, and she will need some love. The engine will need some love.
But I have no worries. I can't wait to get my hands on her.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby jimh » Thu May 13, 2021 4:51 pm

HAPPY--I am sure you will have plenty of fun running the 1981 OUTRAGE V-22 Sterndrive, and also plenty of enjoyment in refurbishment of the boat and the propulsion engine.

Here where I live--southeast Michigan--there are a hundred thousands boats with sterndrives, as the use of automotive four-stroke-power-cycle engines was quite attractive to people around Detroit. Everyone understood the very simple iron block, four-barrel carburetor automobile engines that were converted for marine propulsion engines.

I don't know what sort of sterndrive you will be getting: MerCruiser, OMC, or Volvo-Penta. Today the Mercruiser sterndrives seem to dominate. Back in the 1980's there was more competition.

There is some interesting history of sterndrives in my lengthy two-part article on a major lawsuit filed against Brunswick many years ago related to market share and price discounting for sterndrives. See

https://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/history/brunswickPart1.html
https://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/history/brunswickPart2.html

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Thu May 13, 2021 5:15 pm

Thank you Jim, I will read the articles with interest !

I am looking at 250 HP MerCruiser V-6 engine with MerCruiser outdrive. It is pretty much proven technology, no cutting edge innovations here and should be reliable.

It is going to be interesting also to see how the current V8 305 Chevy block with four-barrel carburetors is performing. It is 30 years old but seems to run fine at the moment. Will keep you guys updated on progress and setbacks (which we will have for sure)

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Thu May 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Jim, I just read the two articles. I draw two general conclusions :

1. being better than others at what you do is not a crime (and should not be)
2. reaching decisions on these extremely complicated legal matters is in no way something that a jury could deliver. Way too much expertise required.

It makes very interesting reading, thanks for the articles. I am convinced my choice for MerCruiser will be the right one to make when the time comes

rcapriola
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby rcapriola » Sun May 16, 2021 11:45 am

Q4: [What was the] stock engine and outdrive combination for a c.1981 REVENGE 22 with sterndrive power?

Q5: Was a Chevrolet 305 engine that is mention {above] the original engine [on the 1981 OUTRAGE V-22 Sterndrive boat that is the topic of this discussion]?
1980 Revenge V-22 Sterndrive

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Sun May 16, 2021 6:18 pm

The Outrage V-22 I bought last week has a Yamaha engine with MerCruiser parts with a 305 block with a four-barrel carburetor. That is, however, not the original engine, I was told. This engine is early 1990's and the boat is 1981. I could not tell you what that original engine was.

mike
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby mike » Tue May 18, 2021 1:12 pm

I have a 1981 22 Outrage originally with stern drive. Love the closed transom.

Bought her in a closed bid auction when Chicago Marine closed down and liquidated the owner's collection.
The plan was to find a diesel stern drive setup and re-power (actually just power, mine came only as a bare hull, no rigging or engine).

Budget at the time kept us out of the diesel world, so we had a bracket made and mounted a Yamaha Ox-66. She has been a great boat.

Still hoping to find a diesel setup, there just haven't been enough Hurricanes.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby biggiefl » Wed May 19, 2021 10:27 am

I know when you look up the cost for a new Mercruiser repower it is in the $20k range. That is not the reality. Most can get the same package for around half of that. Most repowers do not require all new parts. Transom assemblies rarely go bad as do outdrives. You most likely can get a new small block long block and swap carb and wiring harnesses for under $5k.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:23 pm

Yesterday our 40-year-old Outrage V-22 arrived in The Netherlands in the Port of IJmuiden after traveling from Newport, Rhode Island. I will upload some photos (once I have figured out how to do it- [Moderator see the INTRODUCTION FORUM for an article on how to add images to posts].

The hull, console,and T-Top are stunning, the outer shell and inner shell are great--all looks in good shape.

The engine and the sterndrive are however in terrible condition. The inboard engine was half under water and a lot had found its way into the engine, too. The sterndrive was so lose you can swing it around by hand, left to right for about 10 inches, hydraulic steering useless in this case. Just not good and I am annoyed with the seller about this

Also the sterndrive does not match the engine (different ratios 1.3 vs 1.7) so it is a botch job and basically a write off.

Of course this is the gamble you take when you buy a boat overseas without the chance to go check it out (thanks Covid-19)

Re-powering remains at the top of our list and despite all the engine headaches, the boat is lovely. I am very happy to be a Boston Whaler owner again.

The OUTRAGE V-22 is quite different with the sterndrive, and it has a beautiful wooden swimming platform on the transom.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby jimh » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:03 pm

That you were defrauded about the engine and sterndrive is most unfortunate, but if there is a good side to this deal, the hull and topsides sound like they are in really nice condition. Re-fitting a sterndrive and engine will be possible, and probably easier than repairing the hull were the hull in bad shape.

What has happened by chance is now you have an opportunity to close off the transom and put on an outboard engine bracket.

Thanks very much for the follow-up.

The INTRODUCTION forum has instructions on how to add images to posts. See

https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewto ... f=1&t=2569

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:02 pm

Thank you Jim, we will probably stick with the sterndrive set up and replace the engine and outdrive. We can easily source a new engine and the transom with beautiful wooden swimming platform is pretty unique. I am very glad that the hull and everything on deck seems to be in very good shape. Re-powering was expected at some point so I guess we just have to speed up the agenda a bit

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Phil T
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Phil T » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm

Here are some photos from Jan showing the arrival.
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HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:20 am

Thanks for your help Phil, I appreciate it a lot.

Amazing experience with these shipping people at Sevenstar Yacht Transport. They have arranged it all, from dropping the boat in the water in Newport, towing her to to ship (anchored out) loading her, strapping her to the deck and at the port of destination lifting her off the deck onto a flatbed trailer.
All very professional solutions and quick too. Also the administrative side was handled by Sevenstar including insurance and import duties (which by the way are OUTRAGEOUS, due to the US/Europe trading disputes we had to pay a ...tatata ..."anti dumping charge" of 25% !!!).

That however, is not the shipping line's fault, I could not be happier with their service and would recommend them to anyone shipping a boat across big splashes of salt water.

Now it is up to us, repowering and doing some catch up with the maintenance and general appearance of Harpoon. She is a nice little 1981 Whaler, certainly worth our efforts. Not sure if we can use her this season, the engine trouble may keep her ashore for some time.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:15 pm

Harpoon has been in Holland for a little while now and I have decided to repower, the old Yamaha small block V-8 sterndrive is 30 years old and needs to retire. I am looking at Volvo Penta Aquamatic 240 or 280 HP with a 6 cylinder block and a sterndrive with duoprop. Does anybody have any experience with the brand in sterndrive configuration ? Maybe even in IPS configuration (forward facing props on the sterndrive)

Jefecinco
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:33 am

In the US Volvo stern drives are not universally admired. Repair parts often require long waits and are higher priced than those of competitors. Things may be very different in Holland due to the proximity to Sweden and different tax structures.

Dual propeller stern drives are popular here.

Maneuvering a 22 foot boat with power steering is very easy. I owned a 24 foot SeaRay Sundancer with a 260 HP single propeller stern drive with power steering and had no difficulty maneuvering around tight quarters and backing into our slip at the marina. When we took delivery of the boat I spent a couple of hours driving it around the marina before I became confident in my driving skills. I don't believe IPS is needed on you boat. Forward facing propellers are more exposed to debris strikes and I believe they offer little value on a small boat.
Butch

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:57 am

Thanks for your insights, I agree about the forward facing props, seems very exposed and probably not adding much benefits. Also I wonder how that would sit on a roadtrailer with the props facing downward when the sterndrive is tilted upward.

Volvo Penta have an extensive service network throughout Europe and are well respected for their diesel engines, I am not sure about the petrol engines. Parts should be available widely but then again only 1 in 10 of their sold engines is a petrol engine.

The alternative is the new Mercruiser 6 cylinder 250 HP with the Bravo 3 sterndrive, also a duoprop. I have requested a quote for both so should know if there is a big price gap between them. Mercruiser has been "the boss" in this market for a long time and certainly a safe bet.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:46 am

Here is a random sample of sterndrive brands in use on six boats that are near me, on Lake Michigan in northern Michigan. I was surprised by the outcome.

Mercruiser = 1 boat
OMC = 1 boat
Volvo-Penta = 4 boats

Among the four Volvo-Penta boats, there was a very new boat with a forward-facing duo-prop outdrive (called a Forward-Drive), an older boat with a standard duo-prop, and two boats with single propeller outdrive. The boats were all non-Brunswick brands--of course--and the brands were FourWinns (2), Azure, and Regal. The FourWinns boats are made in Cadillac, Michigan, which is about 60-miles south of my location.

The OMC boat was an older Cobalt boat with a HIN indicating a 1986 model. I think OMC drives were actually Volvo-Penta drives at that time.

The above five boats were all larger boats, at least 21-feet long up to about 24-foot long.

The lone Mercruiser was on a 17-foot bowrlder, a Stingray--a much smaller boat than the other five.

One influence on the popularity of the Volvo-Penta sterndrives is the non-Brunswick boat builders are free to choose the sterndrive they prefer, rather than forced to use the Brunswick Mercruiser brand. Choosing a non-Brunswick sterndrive may also be done with the notion of not buying the sterndrive from their direct competitor in the boatbuilding business.

Mercruiser may have a big market share in sterndrive boats in the USA, but I think much of that is due to being used by Brunswick boat builders and on smaller boats.

One oddity: the Volvo-Penta sterndrive with the forward facing duo-prop looked like it could not tilt up out of the water. The boat had a large swim platform above the Forward-Drive that would prevent full tilt-up. The propellers looked like they were actually under the boat hull.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Jefecinco » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:29 am

Regardless of the stern drive manufacturer you choose if your boating will be in salt or brackish water adding the full fresh water cooling option could improve the longevity of the engine.
Butch

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby jimh » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:02 am

A bit more on the advantage of the Volvo-Penta Forward-Drive with forward-facing duo-prop: these drives seem to be especially popular on the newer water sport boats which have large stern swim platforms. These boats are designed for passengers to easily get into the water or out of the water using the stern platform. Because the propellers of the Forward-Drive are tucked under the transom, the propellers are far away from the stern swim platform and generally will not be a hazard to anyone in the water astern of the boat. A conventional sterndrive with aft-facing propellers would represent a hazard to people in the water trying to board the boat via the stern platform.

Of course, the engine should be in neutral or shut off when anyone is in the water near the boat, no matter where the propellers are located.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Jefecinco » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:33 am

Jim, good points. Those boats primarily aimed at water sports enthusiasts would probably be a good market for forward facing propellers. Some boats sold as "ski boats" are inboard engine driven. I've never understood the reasoning other than inboard boat propellers are forward of the transom.
Butch

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:28 pm

The forward facing duo-prop outdrives [Forward Drive] look a bit odd, but they do seem to do the business, especially when installed on pods under the boat. I think we will go for the more classic set-up but in the duo-prop configuration. A 240-HP engine with duo-prop should provide sufficient umpf I think for a fast ride and water sports.

I received the quote for the equivalent from Mercruiser ( a V6 250-HP with Bravo3 outdrive and also duo-prop), and it is a shocking amount of money. Even excluding the installation, the cost for the engine, outdrive, propeller, instruments, and throttle remote controls (all analog stuff and not DTS) amounts to 30,000-Euro, which means roughly $35,000 US. Then the installation cost, probably another 2,500.

I expect the Volvo Penta to be at least 20-percent lower including the duo-prop and the freshwater cooling system (which eliminates salt of brackish water coming in at any moment).

My fingers are crossed.

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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:56 am

Your experience demonstrates the value of Europeans buying European products versus North American products. Given the difference of the quotes in your post it is surprising Mercury and Mercruiser maintain a presence in Europe. Someone has to be buying their products.
Butch

HappyHour
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Re: 1981 Outrage V-22 Sterndrive

Postby HappyHour » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:02 am

Well one of the problems is that the European Union, in all its wisdom, has decided to put a 25% import tariff on just about all products from the US as a counter measure for Trump putting high tariffs on European products for the American market. I even had to pay this ridiculous charge on the import of our 40 year old boat.

The name of the tariff is "anti dumping rate" as if a 40 year old boat could be part of an economic dumping scheme between the US and Europe ??!!

Unfortunately this does impact the popularity of products originating in the US, 25% means a lot of money for this type of product.
Also, there is a massive shortage (globally I think) of marine engines, that does not help either I guess.