CONTINUOUSWAVE

Q1: what is the best model Boston Whaler boat that meets the following criteria:

• costs less that $40,000 as a used boat;
• safe and comfortable ride in ocean coastal areas of Mount Desert Island, Maine, in July and August;
• good for angling for me and my son;
• suitable for entire family (see details below) to enjoy;
• suitable for trailering between Connecticut and Maine, about 400-miles, as needed; and,
• has a capacity of at least eight people, possibly more?

I am considering a 210 OUTRAGE.

Q2: does a reduction in the length of an OUTRAGE model boat compromise the safety of the boat?

Q3: at the present time I do not own a suitable towing vehicle; what is the best scheme for towing the boat:

• buy an older truck, and also use the truck as a secondary vehicle; or,
• rent a truck just as needed for towing between Connecticut and Maine.

In answering Q3, consider that the fuel economy and aesthetics of the truck are not important, because the truck won't accumulate much mileage; but reliability of the truck is important.

Q4: what size truck [i.e. what rated manufacturer towing capacity] is needed to tow a 210 OUTRAGE?

BACKSTORY
My wife and I have two children, ages 8 and 11, and we live in Fairfield County, Connecticut, about 15 minutes from Long Island Sound. We also spend July and August on Mount Desert Island, Maine. Ideally the boat could be kept in the water at a marina in each location, and also be towed on the highway on a trailer between Connecticut and Maine and back each Summer.

First [that is, before buying any boat] you should look at marina prices in each location. Renting slips at two marinas in those areas might be quite expensive.

For the boat also look at the 210 VENTURA. The dual console is nice for a family. The 210 Montauk would be fine as well.

A half-ton truck should pull a 21-footer just fine. Cetain larger SUV models could also work.

Q5: have you thought about getting two smaller boats?

You would leave one smaller boat in Maine and one smaller in Connecticut. Then you could trade one car for a mid-sized SUV that you can haul and launch a 17 to 19-foot trailerable boat at each location.

CLARIFICATION ON SIZE AND OFFSHORE CAPABILITY
In Maine there is less need for [the boat] size and offshore capability. While we would likely not spent tons of time offshore, it's nice to be able to go angling a little further out.

ASIDE: Near Bar Harbor this summer we went on a fishing charter on about a 30-foot fishing boat which took us 20-miles offshore. In addition to fishing we were able to see whales, which my wife loved.

I am getting prices from marinas in the Norwalk, Connecticut area and on Mount Desert Island. In Maine I have a friend who may have a mooring that is little used most of the time.

I will check out a VANTAGE; I'm not familiar with it.

To go 20-miles out into the ocean for whale watching or angling with eight or more people you will need a lot more boat than a 210 MONTAUK.

I don't think you can find too many really nice used 210 MONTAUK boats with a good trailer for $40,000. In a simple cursory search I see 210 MONTAUK used boats going for $64,000 to $99,000. You might not be able to find any at less than $40,000. You should check the price of a new 210 MONTAUK, as they are now well above $125,000.

For long distance trailering any boat, you need a very reliable boat trailer and a very reliable truck.

Since you will be launching in saltwater, you really need a extremely well set-up tandem-axle trailer, probably aluminum, or perhaps galvanized steel, but never a painted steel trailer, with top-line disc brakes on all four wheels, everything possible using stainless steel, no leaf-spring axles, so torsion axles instead, with guide posts, a spare wheel-tire, and a really good bearing and sealing system. That is not something you will find under every used boat.

Boats on trailers with fuel in the tank, and a lot of added gear aboard always weight much more than you think. In Boston Whaler's performance test data for a 210 MONTAUK the boat weighed 4,484-lbs. Subtract 400-lbs for the two guys abourd, and the boat weight was about 4,100-lbs. A typical steel trailer with a 5,200-lbs capacity will weight about 1,200-lbs. So your towed weight will be at least 5,300-lbs, and possible higher to account for any added gear on the boat.

Towing capacities are stated for a vehicle with only one person (the driver) and nothing else in the truck. The towing capacity must be reduced to compensate for every person and everything you put on the truck. So another adult and two kids will be maybe 300-lbs reduced towing. A lot of luggage, more reduced capacity. Also, be sure the truck has the towing package, which usually affects the rear axle gear ratio, adds a larger radiator, adds a transmission cooler and possible an oil cooler, and provides a drawbar factory hitch and trailer wiring.

As for long-distance (400-mile) trips, if you want to maintain highway speed, and if any grades are to be encountered, the truck tow rating should be considerable higher than the towed weight. For that 210 OUTRAGE, maybe 7,200-lbs might be about the minumum, as with let's say 500-lbs added people and gear, that rating is reduced to 6,700-lbs. Now you are towing 5,300-lbs with a truck rated for 6,700-lbs. Yes, that will work, but there is not very much margin.

Also, for towing, a longer wheel base adds stability. However, a truck with a long wheel base makes parking the truck when not towing more difficult, and a long truck just does not fit in more marked parking spaces.

If you can find an "older truck" that fits all the criteria and is "very reliable" and is modestly priced, you will need many circumstances to align for you.

As for being able to rent a truck to tow a boat, you should call some truck rental agencies and see if they allow that use. I am skeptical that you could rent a truck in either Connecticut or Maine, then drop it off at the other end of the trip, and be allowed to tow a boat with it.

NorthShoreWhaler wrote:Q5: have you thought about getting two smaller boats?

I hope the thread originator has NOT seriously thought about getting two boats. If this advice were followed, then everything is DOUBLED: twice the maintenance, twice the registration costs, twice the upkeep, twice the storage costs, and all that to save two long days of driving each year. That solution is not practical.

Samtenen wrote:I will check out a VANTAGE; I'm not familiar with it.

I don't think there is much point in looking at a 210 VANTAGE. The 2025 (latest model) 210 VANTAGE retails at $156,000. The chances that you will find a 210 VANTAGE used for under $40,000 are zero.

A used 210 VENTURA (which was the boat suggested to you) might be found under $40,000. There is a 23-year-old 2002 210 VENTURA listed for $38,000.

Thank you.

Q6: what amount of engine running hours is normal for the engines on boats that are 20 years old?

Q7: what engine hours on boats 25-years-old?

ASIDE: When looking at 20 to 25-year-old boats I’ve seen engines with anywhere from 400-hours. to 1,300 hours. I’m not sure how that equates with miles on a car engine in terms of how to think of the value and risk of need to replace.

Samtenen wrote:Q6: what amount of engine running hours is normal for the engines on boats that are 20-years-old?

Most 20-year-old boats will not have their original engines. An outboard engine made in c.2000 might not be running in 2024 or not on the same boat, particularly if the boat was used in saltwater, and even more so if the boat was used in tropical saltwater.

Most outboard engines that are 20-years-old or older are classic loop-charged carburetor two-stroke-power-cycle engines or early generation four-stroke-power-cycle engines, and the ones among those engines that are still in good condition and running are engines used in cold freshwater and with very low runtime hours.

Any 25-year-old two-stroke-power-cycle engine is essentially about almost zero value when considering a boat to buy, and a 25-year-old four-stroke-power-cycle engine is not far behind in terms of having retained value.

The “average” engine annual run time is maybe 50-hours.

Samtenen wrote:...I’ve seen engines with anywhere from 400-hours. to 1,300 hours. I’m not sure how that equates with miles on a car engine in terms of how to think of the value and risk of need to replace.

Propulsion engines on boats that operate at planing speeds are much different than automobile engines. The operation of an automobile engine occurs mostly--or in some areas exclusively on very level terrain with only modest uphill grades of short rise in elevation. In contrast, a boat propulsion engine when it is propelling a v-hull boat at planing speeds is essentially running in an uphill climb continuously, continually trying to accelerate the boat uphill over its bow wave. This is much higher load for the boat engine than for an automobile engine to maintain a constant speed on level ground where only the rolling friction and air resistance need to be overcome.

Further, in automobiles there is a transmission which permits the engine to decrease to a very low speed and maintain a constant speed on level ground, even at rather high forward motion speed, even at 55-MPH or more. The automobile engine will operating at around 1,500-RPM.

In contrast, there is no gear shift selection, and to keep a moderate v-hull boat on plane generally requires an outboard engine to be operating around 4,000-RPM.

However, mitigating those factors is the actual amount of time an outboard propulsion engine is operated at an engine speed range that would indicate the boat was on plane often is quite surprisingly limited. In what I would consider typical use--in this case my own use of my boat and its engines--I know that 65.8-percent of the time the engine has been running, its engine speed was in the range of 400 to 1,600-RPM, which represent non-planing speeds. The time spent at planing speeds or engine RPM in the range 3,500 to 6,000-RPM is just 26-percent of the operating time, with the majority of that time (24.7-percent) in the speed range 3,500 to 4,500-RPM. (I know these values precisely because my modern engine keeps track of these values and provides the ability to download a report that contains these values.)

There is no simple analogy or comparison between automobile engines and marine engines. In the case of a marine engine, much depends on the type of operation in which that boat was used. For example, if the owner liked to fish 30-miles offshore three days a week, and ran the boat at 45-MPH to get to the fishing grounds, those engines might have a much higher amount of time at very high engine speeds. Or, at the opposite end of the use range, a guy just liked to take slow boat rides around a calm lake, hardly ever getting on plane.

Jimh has a good point about engine hours not being equal to car miles. I’ll add that the saltwater environment is harsh on engines and that only increases with age.

Your budget should get you into a boat you like with a engine re-power. An 2000 to 2005 hull with a recent engine would be a nice setup.

has a capacity of at least eight people, possibly more?

You are looking for a rather large boat. Think CONQUEST models.

NOTE; to transit the I-95 corridor will be a BEAR. Going from coastal Connecticut to Maine is challenging in a car, let alone towing a 5,000-lbs boat. I towed my 17-foot boat to Greenwich, Connecticut, for the weekend from Portland, Maine, and the road was h.o.r.r.i.b.l.e.

Sam--now that many readers have given some sage advice and or pee'd in your cornflakes on the subject of a 210 Outrage, feel free to contact me via private message with regards to actual ownership experience of a 2015 210 Outrage.

The short answers are:

• a 210 OUTRAGE boat is suitable for Maine and Connecticut waters;
• a 210 OUTRAGE boat will be reasonably priced and most likely come with its original Mercury-branded Yamaha-made 225-HP four-stroke-power-cycle engine that will still be running strongly after about 500-hours (or more) or service, or come with a Mercury OptiMax two-stroke-power-cycle engine that will be ready to be replaced with a re-power engine;
• I have trailered fairly-long distances, and can only recommend a properly equipped half-ton truck if the travel will be on good roads with good service;
• a 210 OUTRAGE on a trailer, with gear, and including the trailer weigh is going to weight about6,500 to 7,000-lbs;
• I only add fuel to the boat fuel tank when I have reached my highway towing destination;
• I tow my 210 OUTRAGE with a Ford F-250 diesel-powered true, which is ideal for this boat., as while towing:
  • I do not know there is a trailer behind me;
  • I do not worry about quick stopping;
  • I do not worry about seeing a big boat on a trailer behind me.

For having eight people aboard, a 210 OUTRAGE would only be suitable for cocktail cruises in a bay setting

A 21-foot-boat is ideal for for four or five adults aboard, or for four adults and three children aboard.

EFFECT OF LENGTH ON SAFETY
For the sorts of uses mentioned in the initial request, the hull length is more a factor in riding comfort and capacity rather than a safety factor.

18 to 19-FOOTERS
You might consider getting a hull of 18-feet to 19-feet length. Those hulls could carry lots of people, and solve other problems) and solve other dilemmas:

• it could be towed with any sort of Fairfield County full-sized SUV (and consider making that trip to Maine late at night);
• you could find used 18 to 19-footers in much better condition in your [under $40,000] price range [that used larger boats]
• [you could buy a boat] with a four-stroke-power-cycle engine;
• you [should be able to] find a boat that was only six or seven years old, that has low hours, and had and maintenance records that show good care.

ADVICE WHEN BUYING
All Boston Whaler Unibond hulls should be thoroughly checked for holes in the hull or liner skin, for past repairs, for delamination, and for loose hardware. Have some someone help you [assess a used Boston Whaler boat] that knows [how to assess used Boston Whaler boat]. If you have a Boston Whaler dealer in the area, might hire the dealer to help you evaluate [a used Boston Whaler boat].

BUYING USED OUTBOARD ENGINES
For the outboard engine, I would want to see:

• proof of proper winterizations;
• good gasoline fuel filter whoe filter element changed at least annually;
• [records that show the] use of the very best full-synthetic oil;
• an engine history report printout would be much appreciated; these reports can be from shop testing;
• a report of [dry-cylinder peak pressures]and,
• annual service records

EFFECT OF BOAT LENGHT ON TOTAL COSTS
As a boat gets longer, the purchase cost, maintenance cost , storage cost, trailering hassles, weight, and everything else go up quickly.

EFFECT OF WEATHER ON POSSIBLE TRIPS
Watch the weather closely and you'll be fine to get out around Mt. Desert Rock to look for whales, or get out to Block Island, or to get out wherever.

USING A BOAT TO ITS FULL CAPACITY
I have always enjoyed using my Boston Whaler boats to their full capacity, and I was comfortable taking my infant kids 30-miles across the bays in 13-footer and 17-footers.

USING BOAT IN TWO LOCATIONS
That you are going to be using your boat in two different waters is great.

ASIDE
I encourage that more credit be given to the Boston Whaler boats we are talking about.

I once worked for a Boston Whaler dealer on Mt. Desert Island, Maine, and at a time when most Boston Whaler boats were 17-feet (then later 19-feet) inn length. I saw customers using these Boston Whaler boats all along the coast, and not just inshore. In my old NEWPORT I had four adults and four kids aboard.

WillVan wrote:In my old NEWPORT I had four adults and four kids aboard.

Eight persons exceeds the USCG Capacity rating (seven persons) for a NEWPORT.