CONTINUOUSWAVE

I have a 2017 190 Montauk and would like to add forward cleats (port and starboard) for securing fenders and docklines. I'm also considering adding a tow arch as we are starting to water ski.

Page 5-10 shows the reinforcement diagram:

https://bostonwhaler-8c1e.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/190-MONTAUK_2018-OWNERS-MANUAL.pdf

I'm looking over the reinforcement diagram, but am not sure of the following:

1 - It appears to be all phenolic/whaleboard in the areas I'd like to add the cleats (about U1 or C1). Do I drill and tap this material? Some areas are listed 4.5"x8" or 3.5"x12". What do those dimensions refer to? The length/width or length/depth of this material?

2 - How do I locate these specific areas? The reinforcement diagram doesn't seem to show me reference points to adequately locate these reinforcements.

Or... shall I have my dealer do this work?

The 4.5" X 8" dimensions refer to the length and width of the underlying Whaler board. The whaler board is 3/8" thick and it is recommended to drill and tap for fasteners used. What isn't clear to me is exactly how to locate these pieces using reference dimensions. Seems if you choose any of the area forward of the C-1 position that you couldn't go wrong as there are several phenolic pieces shown on the print that are pieced in next to one another all the way around the bow area as long as that is not too far forward from where you prefer to mount the cleats.

I'm in touch with Sue / Beacon Marine, and she has the same boat and cleats mounted in that area. She was willing to take some measurements to help me out, so that's great!

10-4 . Hope it all comes out perfect.

Thanks.

Now... the Tow Arch. I'm a bit torn on that one - it's expensive, but would be very nice for skiing and allow us to avoid bending over the engine as we attach the bridle. I'm told it can be added to our boat, but it's hard to imagine how a screwed-in tow arch is strong enough to pull a skier. I'd think it would need backing plates.

I've seen Boston Whalers with a ski pylon option which allowed the tow line to be above the engine. Perhaps the pylon is aftermarket but the ones I've seen look like they would work well on your 190. Some tow pylons are found at http://www.go2marine.com. I believe that would be the most convenient option. Another option would be a Turbo Swing seen at http://www.turboswing.com which is a wrap around bar.

Thanks Butch. Whaler's tow arch looks like this. I was quoted $710.

Tacky -- Given the perfect fit of the bracket and the fact that it was chosen by Boston Whaler to be sold with their boats makes me believe it is an ideal solution for towing water skiers behind your 190. Frankly, it looks as though it was specifically designed and engineered for the application. I'm sure it is through bolted using strong backing plates. It would be easy enough to install with the proper templates. Access beneath the fiberglass for the backing plates, nuts and washers is available via the pull out rear seat access panels and the bilge access panel in the engine well. All said the price looks reasonable and I'm sure it's negotiable.

I don't find arches to be attractive on center console boats or any boat for that matter. If ski line arch is mounted it would have to be a very robust design and require through bolting to ensure it did not separate from the gunwales. That would require cutting through the gunwale sides for bolts and backing plates, a not inexpensive undertaking. I would be concerned about the suitability of an aftermarket design for the purpose.

Butch - I agree on the looks - it certainly doesn't add to the good looks of our boats, but the practicality of using that for skiing is very temping. I forgot about access via the hatches. I bet it's not too tough to install. The only other costly concern, is my boat cover would need to be modified to fit over the arch.

I think we'll go ahead with it!

The REINFORCEMENT LOCATION DIAGRAM that appears on page 5-10 of the owner's manual identifies the individual plates that form the embedded reinforcement with a CALLOUT.

The CALLOUT uses an alpha-numeric code to identify the material at the particular location. In the drawing there is a TABLE that provides a mating between the CALLOUT CODE and the material. To discover the material, take the CALLOUT and find its entry in the TABLE.

For example, at the bow of the boat there is an embedded reinforcement identified with CALLOUT E1.

Enter the table with E1 and find the material. The TABLE identifies E1 as

"E1 3/8" PHENOLIC 14" x 18.50"

This is interpreted as follows:

E1 = the CALLOUT
3/8" = the thickness of the material sheet in fractional inches
14" = one dimension of the material sheet in inches
18.50 = the other dimension of the material sheet in decimal inches
PHENOLIC = the material that comprises the embedded reinforcement sheet

Also, the drawing includes the notation P&S. The notation P&S is interpreted as follows:

P & S = Port AND Starboard, that is, the indicated material is used symmetrically at the same place on Port and Starboard sides, even if specifically called out only on one side.

Again, since E1 is noted as P & S, this means there are two places where the E1 embedded reinforcement is used, one on the Port side and in the same location symmetrical to the keel centerline on the Starboard side.

The drawing shows the boat hull in a perspective view and appears to be drawn to scale. Because the dimension of the overall length and breadth of the hull are known, if you want to deduce a location you could make your own dimension scale from those lengths.

The drawing contains further information in tabular form that indicates the type of screw fastener that is to be used in various materials and the load strength of the material described in broad terms.

To DEDUCE what type of fastener should be used, first deduce the CALLOUT of the material in the area you plan to drill into; then consult the table to find the description of the material; then consult the second table to find the recommended fastener.

The material denoted as PHENOLIC is also identified by a trade name, WHALEBOARD. You can find more specifics about WHALEBOARD by locating the manufacturer and reading his website for further information. It takes just seconds for GOOGLE to find

http://www.whalelite.com/products.asp


I find the drawing to be a rather easily understood mechanical drawing. The only instruction I've had in mechanical drawing was in the 7th grade at my Junior High School. All boys took MECHANICAL DRAWING; all the girls took SEWING. That was in c.1963, now more than 55-years-ago, and was probably fairly typical for public school education before the notion of bifurcation of the curriculum into specialized educational tracts. Maybe now instead of teaching boys MECHANICAL DRAWING in the 7th grade they give them classes in how to use mobile devices to connect socially with their classmates instead of just hanging out with them after school at the bowling alley.

Thanks Jimh.

I don't agree with you, though, on the quality of the drawing. Now... I'm just a Chemical Engineer, so I am not as skilled looking at mechanical drawings, but in my opinion, it'd be a really great drawing if there was a reference point that I could measure from to locate all those phenolic boards.

For example, how would I locate C1? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe this dwg in the owner's manual was cut and pasted from an engineering diagram, and we don't get to see the reference points?

Now, it's possible that my wife is right, and I am actually quite dense.

I was thinking of using a studfinder to see if that might help locate C1.

If you plan to use an arch to tow skiers I recommend you not trust a piece of phenolic material to serve as a material in which screws or lag bolts secure the base. By elevating the load above head level, say 80 inches above deck, you will have created a long lever to strip out any mounting screws. By applying the loads often required to get one or more skiers on top of the water you may create an unsafe situation. I suspect the phenolic material under the gunwales are intended to withstand lateral rather than vertical loads.

Perhaps, if an arch is well designed with an aft slant and a stout forward sloping support tube mounting screws will hold the loads.

For vertical loads I believe steel backing plates with steel through bolts are superior to screws in phenolic. For that reason I would use an aft mounted ski pylon such as the one in your photograph.

Tacky79 wrote:Thanks Jimh.

I don't agree with you, though, on the quality of the drawing.

I did not pass particular judgement on the quality of the drawing. I said it was "easily understood." To make clear my judgement of the drawing's quality, I will say it is a very high quality drawing. It appears to be TO SCALE, and I found it easy to interpret.

As to whether it provides precise dimensional lines showing the distance from a particular point to another point, the drawing DOES do that for some dimensions, but not all.

The drawing shows the to-scale location of all the reinforcements. If you want to develop precise dimensions for the location of every embedded reinforcement, you could accomplish that by just printing the drawing and establishing a scale. You can then measure distances on the drawing with a scale ruler. Note that some distances ARE shown by dimension lines, so it would be simple to establish a scale.

Also, as you have speculated, there may be a more detailed drawing available. I am sure that if you contact Boston Whaler customer support, they would be glad to send you any other drawings that are available.

Tacky79 wrote:I was thinking of using a studfinder to see if that might help locate C1.

I have not tried using a stud finder. I would be very interested to know if that works.

There are two other methods that may be helpful:

--use extremely strong illumination to view the area; you may be able to visually detect the position of embedded reinforcement C! by a change in the opacity or reflectivity of the regions of C1 compared to surrounding areas; or,

--use the tapping method to create a sound report; listen carefully to the sound report from the tapping and assess it for any difference from surrounding areas that do not have embedded reinforcement. With some careful listening and tapping you can usually detect an embedded reinforcement using this method. The "tapping method" refers to using a small hammer, usually with a plastic face, to tap the gel coat surface of the hull. If a hammer with a plastic face is not at hand, use a larger screwdriver with a big plastic handle, and strike the hull with the plastic handle.

Regarding the location of the embedded reinforcement called out as C1 in the drawing: I expect that location is used as a rail base anchor for the bow railing. If the 190 MONTAUK boat has a bow rail, you can very probably locate C1 as being at the base of the vertical rail support in approximately that location.

Thanks guys. Sue at Beacon Marine--big thanks, Sue--sent me a picture of her 190 Montauk forward cleat with a tape measure showing the distance from the textured part of the gunwale. As soon as I pull the boat out of winter storage, I'll try the stud finder or tap methods to see if I can confirm C1, mostly out of curiosity. I don't have forward bow rails, as I have the fishing option with trolling motor controls in the bow.

It is great that Sue provided the location of the cleat she installed, but I don't see that this information definitively locates the embedded C1 reinforcement. Was the cleat on Sue's boat installed as a factory option?

Right - I'm not sure hers are at C1. I was giving that as an example on how that drawing isn't so great, as it really doesn't give you enough data to accurately locate C1, if you wanted to locate that area. I think her cleat is located aft of C1. Her's were not factory options, per my understanding.

Until Monday, when you can pick up the telephone and call Chuck Bennett at Boston Whaler Customer Service in Florida, maybe this drawing will be helpful:



I made this drawing from the original. I just removed a bunch of clutter and then moved an existing pair of dimension lines to a new portion of the drawing. I think my drawing will get you close to the location of C1. It took just a few minutes in PhotoShop to accomplish this.