CONTINUOUSWAVE

EDIT: I have split this thread in two [and removed a second topic--jimh]

Backstory: I purchased my Outrage 25 (Manufactured in 1986) in 2018. There were problems with the engine and in 2019 as my house extension was a priority, the Outrage was laid up for 18 months. I have purchased a new Evinrude E-TEC 300-HP G2 engine which has just been fitted. I have decided to give the the boat a major overhaul in the winter of 2020. Before this I am going to give the Outrage a good cleanup. I will also prioritise the work that needs to be done during the winter.

The bow locker covers are teak and were fitted in c.2010 as far as I know. I presume these covers replaced the original molded fiberglass covers. I removed the locker covers to clean and seal the wood and noticed the the port and starboard lockers are actually not the same size. All the covers sit on the locker lips and are far from water tight. I may replace them with new molded fiberglass covers. For this I will need to make mouldings for the covers and would like to know how the originals look underneath. I will be removing all covers over the winter to replace the plywood and also fix and strengthen any damaged areas so having a color match is quite important. It will algo give me a chance to ascertain the condition of the fuel tank.

Q1: What is the mix ratio of standard gel coat color to match the color now on the deck of a 1985 OUTRAGE 25 boat?

Q2: Are the original molded covers in the bow lockers of a 1986 OUTRAGE 25 boat the same as the fixed covers with plywood inserts laminated on the underside?

If anyone has any photos of these covers and their underside that would be greatly appreciated. Also an idea of the depth of ply.

Thanks--James

Herbster wrote:Q4: do you have any thoughts on this?

The most reasonable explanation for why a 1986 OUTRAGE 25 had wooden locker covers in the bow is because the boat was originally made as a REVENGE 25 and someone tore off the cabin superstructure.

herbster wrote:Q1: What is the mix ratio of standard gel coat color to match the color now on the deck of a 1985 OUTRAGE 25 boat?

Your question presumes two parameters which are not likely to be realized in actual practice:

1. that there is such a thing as a "standard" gel coat color, other than pure titanium white
2. that the present day hue of the gel coat on a boat made 45-years ago is the same for all such boats

herbster wrote:Q2: Are [the original molded covers in the bow lockers of a 1986 OUTRAGE 25 boat] the same as the fixed covers with plywood inserts laminated on the underside?

Molded opening hatch covers made by Boston Whaler usually have some sort of cores. Precisely what material might be used on a particular hatch on a particular boat in a particular model year is unknown to me.

herbster wrote:Q3: are there alternative methods [to sort out the drains]?

[OP deleted this topic from this thread]

jimh wrote:The most reasonable explanation for why a 1986 OUTRAGE 25 had wooden locker covers in the bow is because the boat was originally made as a REVENGE 25 and someone tore off the cabin superstructure.

Jim--thanks for your response. I found out that the covers had been a fitted by a previous owner. The sale advertisement from a few years ago (prior to my purchase) quoted "Custom designed teak floor hatch doors."

herbster wrote:The sale advertisement from a few years ago (prior to my purchase) quoted "Custom designed teak floor hatch doors."

I don't recall ever hearing that someone threw away the original molded laminated hatch covers and made new ones from wood. I am a bit skeptical of the claim.

Fabricating your own new molded fiberglass hatch covers will be quite a project. Were I going to try this--and I wouldn't--I would locate some OEM hatch covers and use them as a plug to make a mold for molding new hatch covers.

Q5: Are you an experienced fabricator of custom molded boat parts?

I'm with Jim. It might have been an Outrage Cuddy and somebody removed the cuddy which is quite common. Problem is the oem covers on cuddy/revenge models were mahogany, not teak.

jimh wrote:

herbster wrote:The sale advertisement from a few years ago (prior to my purchase) quoted "Custom designed teak floor hatch doors."

I don't recall ever hearing that someone threw away the original molded laminated hatch covers and made new ones from wood. I am a bit skeptical of the claim.

Fabricating your own new molded fiberglass hatch covers will be quite a project. Were I going to try this--and I wouldn't--I would locate some OEM hatch covers and use them as a plug to make a mold for molding new hatch covers.

Q5: Are you an experienced fabricator of custom molded boat parts?

HI Jim, I will post some schematics later today. I have a friend who has a custom van business and he has a large cnc machine which I could use to cut the moulds based on the dimensions (corrected if necessary) of the wooden covers.

biggiefl wrote:I'm with Jim. It might have been an Outrage Cuddy and somebody removed the cuddy which is quite common. Problem is the oem covers on cuddy/revenge models were mahogany, not teak.

Are there any tell tale signs of it having a cuddy that I can check?

If the boat were originally an OUTRAGE CUDDY, the cuddy cabin superstructure would have been a separate molded component. The cabin superstructure would have been fastened to the hull in some manner with screws or rivets. These would probably have been nicely concealed and located under the rub rail.

herbster wrote:Q1: What is the mix ratio of standard gel coat color to match the color now on the deck of a 1985 OUTRAGE 25 boat?

The hull color is nominally Desert Tan or Outrage Gray. Both are off-white colors. The difference between them is subtle and takes very acute color vision to see.

The base color for the gel coat would be titanium white. I have made some small amounts of gel coat to make repairs using artist's color acrylic pigments mixed with white gel coat. The amount of color tint to turn pure white to an off-white is very small.

Desert Tan might be duplicated with adding a small amount of raw sienna pigment to titanium white.

Outrage Gray seems to be more neutral, so maybe a dash of black added to titanium white.

These mix ratios would be very small. I have no idea what a numerical ratio would be.

What total volume of tinted gel coat resin to you anticipate using?

If you need a gallon of gel coat, a better method is to go to a paint store. Get paint color chips for off white colors. Find the perfect match. Take a gallon of white gel coat resin to the paint store and have them add the color tints in their formula to make the desired off white.

A variant of this is to take a piece of the original hull gel coat to the paint store for color scanning. In some cases, people have intentionally cut out a section of the cockpit for just this purpose, taken it to the paint store, and had it scanned.

jimh wrote:If the boat were originally an OUTRAGE CUDDY, the cuddy cabin superstructure would have been a separate molded component. The cabin superstructure would have been fastened to the hull in some manner with screws or rivets. These would probably have been nicely concealed and located under the rub rail.

Hi Jim,

Is there any way to tell from the serial number whether it was a cuddy version?

My serial number is BWC8B064A686 which equates to:

Boston Whaler;SN=8B064(8B=25ft);Month of Production=January;Year of Production=1986;Model year=1986
Thanks

Thanks Jim, I really appreciate your help and will do the above. I need to do it for deck and hull.

The federal HIN does not encode a model. It identifies a unique hull. The manufacturer may have records for that unique hull that will provide more information about it production options. Contact Boston Whaler customer support. They may be able to find production records that will indicate that exact model the boat was originally produced in.

All Boston Whaler Unibond boat hulls also have a stencil number. That number can also be useful for the manufacturer to look up production records for that unique hull.

Re contacting customer support: they used to answer telephone calls, but I believe now they work from email inquiries submitted by using a form on the BOSTONWHALER.COM website.

Spectrum Color and another company have matched Gelcoat for sale in patch kits, quarts and gallons. No need to mix. E-mail Boston Whaler with the boat stencil number and they will tell you what model it is and what dealer it went to on what date.

Do you have pictures of the teak covers?

You did not respond with the total volume of new gel coat resin needed. If you need a gallon, that suggests you are going to spray the whole cockpit or hull, and at that point, getting an exact match to blend in with the existing gel coat really is not crucial, as the existing gel coat is going to covered by the new gel coat.

Here is my non-expert opinion regarding spraying all new gel coat:

When Boston Whaler boats are made, the gel coat layer is the first layer sprayed into a contact female mold. The mold surface is very carefully prepared to receive a new hull, and it is highly polished and waxed with a mold release. The gel coat layer is applied indoors in a carefully controlled and very clean environment, and the gel coat cures to a hard, very uniform, very smooth, and glossy surface in this method. In order for gel coat resin to cure to a hard finish it must not be in contact with air. Also, the gel coat resin is followed by more laminating resin, and a primary chemical bond occurs between the gel coat resin and the laminating resin.

When spraying new gel coat onto an existing hull, the surface that results may not be as uniform, run-free, smooth, or glossy as the original construction, and considerable additional labor may be needed to smooth flaws, runs, or other imperfections in the surface finish. The gel coat will be applied over a somewhat non-uniform surface of the original gel coat and any repairs made. The gel coat resin can only make a secondary bond to the already cured surface onto which it is sprayed. This means the adhesion of the gel coat to the underlying layers will not be as strong as the primary bond that occurred when the gel coat was spraying in the original hull layup. Also the gel coat resin must have an additive, usually some sort of wax, that will tend to rise to the surface and exclude air from the gel coat resin, allowing it to cure to a hard finish.

I don't know if you were aware of all these conditions. I thought their mention might be useful for you.

There is a distinct advantage to using gel coat resin: it can be applied to about a 0.020 thickness. Having a top coat layer this thick permits rubbing out small blemishes that occured in the application or might occur later in use of the boat. Paints cannot be applied to this same thickness, and flaws in the paint surface will be much more difficult to remove or polish out.

Pictures below the OUTRAGE 24 bow locker covers after restoring and sealing. Figures 4 and 5 illustrate the size discrepancy between the port and starboard locker covers.


Fig. 1.


Fig. 2.


Fig. 3.


Fig. 4.


Fig. 5.

jimh wrote:You did not respond with the total volume of new gel coat resin needed. If you need a gallon, that suggests you are going to spray the whole cockpit or hull, and at that point, getting an exact match to blend in with the existing gel coat really is not crucial, as the existing gel coat is going to covered by the new gel coat.........

When I get the removeable covers restored I would like to get as close a possible match to the structural decking as they will be side by side when laid. I will also be removing the console to repair the old nav equipment holes and will be gelcoating the whole console so no exact match required. The work will be carried out by a GRP professional. As far as the hull is concerned, I may just vinyl it so I can go with a another colour and not impact on the original paintwork.

Okay--the light went on. I now see your plan to match the new laminated covers you will make to the existing hull color.

The problem with just buying some vendor's notion of the correct color is the actual color your hull now has. A boat molded in 1986 is now 34-years-old, and the effect of weather and sunlight on the gel coat may have changed its color from whatever hue it was when new. If you employ a pre-mixed color from a vendor, you might find it won't match your hull color. Your hull may need some considerable work to get back to its original color. Removing a surface layer of oxidation, using "restorative" blends of compounding material, lots of buffing, and then waxing should bring back most of the original color. That should--emphasis on should--give a good color match, assuming you and the the vendor can figure out the exact color the boat was molded with.

herbster wrote:...The work will be carried out by a GRP professional. As far as the hull is concerned, I may just vinyl it so I can go with a another colour and not impact on the original paintwork.

This project sounds very ambitious. I think you will have quite a nice boat when finished. The OUTRAGE 25 hull is a great design. It is worthy of careful restoration and improvements.

I have tried both Mozilla & chrome and I still can not see the pics he posted. Any tips?

biggiefl wrote:...I still can not see the pics he posted. Any tips?

Maybe your browser setting is confused and thinks the images are pop-up advertisements.

The images are in jpeg format. They are hosted elsewhere. Try to right-click on the link and open in a separate window.

Looked at them on my phone. I like them and the look is probably stunning when cleaned and oiled. Many people would pay a lot of money for that look. I would keep them if sturdy or see if anyone wants to swap for their OEM hatches.

biggiefl wrote:Looked at them on my phone. I like them and the look is probably stunning when cleaned and oiled. Many people would pay a lot of money for that look. I would keep them if sturdy or see if anyone wants to swap for their OEM hatches.

Can't see a swap happening soon as I'm in the UK!!

NICK is on to something: the look of nice teak is often a prized attribute of a classic Boston Whaler.

The only problem with oiled teak is keeping it in good condition. I just have three hatch covers of oiled teak, and one companionway door to keep in decent condition. A boatload--pun intended--of teak locker hatch covers might a maintenance chore. But they would look quite nice.

jimh wrote:NICK is on to something: the look of nice teak is often a prized attribute of a classic Boston Whaler.

The only problem with oiled teak is keeping it in good condition. I just have three hatch covers of oiled teak, and one companionway door to keep in decent condition. A boatload--pun intended--of teak locker hatch covers might a maintenance chore. But they would look quite nice.

I got them looking like this using a three-stage process; Teak Restorer, Teak Cleaner, and Teak Sealer. They have a very natural colour as there is no oil involved. Although I removed the covers this time, the process is pretty straightforward and no reason it couldn't be done in situ for convenience, and would also reduce the wear on the screw holes.

The link below shows the process:
https://www.marineteak.co.uk/wessex-2-part-teak-cleaner---concentrated-648

I have done the same process but you should, but don't have to, put oil on them as well. I have also come to the conclusion that the 3 step process is tough on the wood and raises the grain considerably. I only do that when it is totally grey and nasty. If you keep it oiled and clean you should not have to do that.