Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
routlirh
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Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:53 am

[For a] 1985 Montauk 17 with [an E-TEC] 90 that is now on an oversized single-axle Shorland'r all-roller trailer and will be trailered quite a bit, what is the urgency to change to a bunk trailer?

I have read the trailer reference guide so I know [a trailer with floppy-rollers is] not preferred. The previous owner has experienced no problems.

IMG_0863small.jpg
Fig. 1. MONTAUK 17 seen from port stern quarter.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm

Post a better picture showing the trailer floppy rollers and their position relative to the hull running surfaces.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:45 pm

I'll see what I can do - the boat is not yet local to me.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:05 pm

The ideal trailer for a Boston Whaler classic boat with the sharp hull bottom running edges or runners is not necessarily a bunk trailer. Generally the best trailer will use a combination of keel rollers and bunks. However, for many years all-bunk trailers have been used.

Generally the floppy-roller-style trailer is not a good fit with Boston Whaler hulls because of the hull shape.

A good combination in my experience is to have bunks position to support the aft half of the hull, and keel rollers to support the forward half of the hull. The forward part of the hull has a deep and prominent V-shape, so keel rollers are best for support there; the keel is a very strong element in the hull. Also, when the boat is coming onto the trailer, keel rollers for the forward half of the hull will help lift the bow of the boat upward, onto the trailer, and toward the winch post.

The aft part of the Boston Whaler boat hulls varies, and with a MONTAUK 17 hull the aft hull has a gently rounded bottom. Having longitudinal bunks spaced about two-feet out from keel center line should give good support. A keel roller right at the transom portion of the hull can also be very helpful, however in some cases the height needed for that roller can make it difficult to install.

Usually a boat with the 6-foot 2-inch beam of a MONTAUK 17 may be able to fit entirely between the fenders of the trailer. If that is not the case, then the height of the boat above the trailer frame will be determined by the clearance between the hull and fenders. For an example see the illustration below:

Image
Figure 2. 170 MONTAUK with 6-foot 10-inch beam, on trailer; note clearance between boat and trailer fenders. Also note the PVC poles arranged at the back of the trailer to assist as guides during loading. They are extremely useful.

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Phil T
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:09 pm

All three of my boats (Montauk 17, Outrage 17) have been on bunk trailers. I trailer 100% and visit many different ramps.

I added keel rollers to allow me to launch the boat easily on the varied ramps. I found a keel roller setup requires less depth in the water to launch or retrieve.

In reviewing the current trailer in the photo, it should be modified by simply adding two 12" non-marring keel rollers (one on each side) to the rear crossmember, a single 10" non-marring keel roller on the crossmember forward of the axle.

The existing short adjustable bunks should be replaced with 5' bunks with brackets installed on both cross members.

The boat sits on the keel rollers and the bunks provide lateral stability. When setup correctly one can push the boat off and winch it forward when out of the water.

LoadRiteTrailer.jpg
Fig. 3. Trailer with both bunks and keel rollers.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:20 pm

The amount of trailering as described as "quite a bit" can vary.

I used to haul my boat around on a trailer "quite a bit." For one trip we hauled the boat from SE Michigan about 2,240-miles to La Connor, Washington, then back another 2,240-miles, for a total of 4,480-miles of highway trailering on that trip. We also hauled the boat several times to the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico, maybe 2,500-mile round trips. And we made dozens and dozens of trips of less than 1,000-miles.

For a boat that is going to live on the trailer and will travel perhaps 50,000-miles on the highway, getting the right trailer is important.

The right trailer set-up is also important for launching and loading. Neither should be difficult or a big hassle.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:23 pm

PHIL--that trailer you illustrate in Figure 3 looks great. Mounting the keel rollers in pairs on each side of a trailer cross member is the best method for installation. That trailer just needs white PVC poles at the aft end as guides for the boat during loading and launching.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:48 pm

Here is a view of my trailer with the boat loaded. It shows that the support is from both bunks and keel rollers.

bunkAndRoller.jpg
Fig. 4. Boston Whaler OUTRAGE-style V-hull supported on trailer by both keel rollers and bunks.
bunkAndRoller.jpg (74.73 KiB) Viewed 11691 times


The lighting for the above image was not the best and obscures some details. The keel rollers are 12-inch yellow polyurethane Stoltz rollers. The roller brackets are 12-inch galvanized steel. Note how the lower bolts in the bracket mount are passing through the trailer frame member. This was necessary to get sufficient height of the roller above the trailer frame. The holes in the trailer frame were drilled in the exact center of the vertical height of the frame member; this minimizes loss of strength. The brackets are mounted in pairs, so they more or less clamp the trailer member between them; this restores some strength to the trailer member.

The boat is carried on the trailer as low as possible, that is, as close to the fenders as possible. The chine line of the hull clears the fenders of the trailer by about 1-inch. The lower the boat on the trailer, the less immersion of the trailer into the water will be needed to launch or load.

This trailer is an E-Z-LOADER and has the somewhat unique twin-bunks that pivot; this helps to equalize the weight loading between the two bunks. The bunk seen above is as close to the keel centerline as possible without hitting the keel roller brackets. Weight-bearing bunks should be close to the keel center line.

The (unseen) second bunk paired with the inner bunk is farther outboard from the keel. It is position well inside the hull runner in order to not interfere with the overboard hull drain on starboard side; the drain is protected with a inverted Perko vent and could be damaged if the bunk were improperly positioned during loading--which can happen.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:02 pm

My “quite a bit” is frequency based (weekly unload and load) not distance and NOTHING like Jim's “quite a bit.”

I'm a bit confused by Phil's post. Which photo is referred to re “current trailer in the photo”?

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby porthole » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:35 pm

I have ordered two new trailers from LoadRite, first for my 15' SS and then for a 17 Outrage.
Each time the dealer ordered a "Whaler" specific trialer.

The 15' SS trailer came with bunks and fore/aft keel rollers.
The 17 Outrage trailer came with bunks only.
I did add fore/aft rollers for the keel.
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:37 pm

I made the reference to the photo since I was not sure you were intending to modify it or purchasing a new-to-you trailer.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:46 pm

fig5.jpg
Fig. 5. View of MONTAUK 17 loaded on the trailer under discussion in this thread.
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fig6.jpg
Fig. 6. Another view of MONTAUK 17 loaded on the trailer under discussion in this thread.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:36 pm

Remove all the hardware from the cross members and replace with bunks on long brackets to take into account the dropped rear cross member.


https://www.sturdybuiltonline.com/2-Bunk-Bracket-Swivel-Top-12-inch-All-Aluminum-Kit-for-Bunk-Boards_p_1819.html

I use and recommend Sturdybuiltonline.com for parts. They have low prices and quick service.\

Figure 7 will help you figure out what length bracket riser you need.

bracketWithDimensions.jpg
Fig. 7. Bracket drawing with dimensions
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routlirh
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:03 pm

THX Phil. I'm in Canada so I'll have look at sourcing parts up here. Thx for advice.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Masbama » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:47 pm

I would suggest setting up the trailer with the bunks as high as you can. This way you have no worries about the keel scrapping the trailer. ‘V’ axles and cross members are essential too. The trailer I bought for my 2003 190 Nantucket is shown in Figure 8 below.

trailerSternView.jpg
Fig. 8. Stern view of trailer for 190 NANTUCKET.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:22 am

Here you can choose between two completely opposite opinions:

Masbama wrote:I would suggest setting up the trailer with the bunks as high as you can. This way you have no worries about the keel scrapping the trailer.


jimh wrote:The boat is carried on the trailer as low as possible, that is, as close to the fenders as possible. The chine line of the hull clears the fenders of the trailer by about 1-inch. The lower the boat on the trailer, the less immersion of the trailer into the water will be needed to launch or load.


If the trailer is properly set up with bunks, keel rollers (very important), and guide posts, the keel of the boat will never strike the trailer frame during loading or unloading. The boat hull leaves the trailer, the hull becomes buoyant and is raised off the trailer during launching. During loading, the only way for the boat to hit the trailer is if the trailer is improperly immersed in the water, that is, if the trailer is not sufficiently deep in the water.

On the subject of the boat hull being damaged by striking the trailer frame, in Figure 5 above I see that the boat under discussion on the trailer under discussion has already apparently received a lot of damage to the hull from striking the trailer, probably from the keel roller spindles. That sort of "gel coat rash" is a problem that should be remedied with urgency.

fig9.jpg
Fig. 9. Gel coat rash on inboard face of runner.
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Phil T
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:43 am

On further reflection, I would unbolt the rear drop cross member and bolt on replacement V cross member then attach keel rollers and bunk brackets.

I don't like how the low clearance of the trailer to the ground.

Here is the Shoreland'r part from Eastern Marine.
https://www.easternmarine.com/shoreland-r-painted-rear-trailer-crossbar-sk6683401-1

replacementCrossMemberTrans.png
Fig. 9. Replacement Crossmember for trailer.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby ConB » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:34 pm

That looks like a nice Montauk. If you are going to keep the boat and If the budget will stand it buy a new trailer.

I have seen dimples in the bottom of a Whaler where the rollers ride. Who knows what will happen with your rig.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Limecc » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:15 pm

Roller bunks provide the best of both worlds.

rollerbunks.jpeg
Roller-bunk product
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:41 am

The all-roller assembly pictured above is a variation of the floppy-roller designs of the past.

I have never seen any endorsement for that product from Boston Whaler, nor availability of the product on a trailer supplied by Boston Whaler with their boats, nor read any report of the product being used with a Boston Whaler classic-era 17-foot hull, nor actually ever heard of the product before now. I have not seen the product used by any major OEM trailer manufacturer such as E-Z-LOADER, LOAD-RITE, LOADMASTER, SHORELANDR, EAGLE, or KARAVAN.

As a general rule, the more moving metal parts that must be immersed into water for the purpose of launching or loading a small boat, the more problems are likely to occur. The above generalization also applies to plastic parts that must bear weight.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby porthole » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:03 pm

Somewhere on my many stored files I have blurb from Boston Whaler about bunks versus rollers. Rollers were not recommend because the hull strength is partly due to the bonded foam and the rollers concentrated weight can cause the bond to fail or have divots form on the hull or both.
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:42 pm

The photo above showing the blue rollers is more typical of European or Australian trailers which have rollers situated aft of the transom and slightly below and the welded frame rather than U bolt attachment method.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Limecc » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:31 pm

Roller bunks are not common in the UK, but are gaining popularity. Having double the number of rollers means the weight borne by each is halved and they probably won't deform the hull.

[Roller bunks ] are unlikely to ever come in a [Boston Whaler boat package]. To keep costs as low as possible to increase sales makes business sense. Before one of the major US trailer manufacturers sees the aftermarket opportunity and starts offering their own version is just a matter of time.

There is also another variant using roller banks fastened with U bolts. They can be retrofitted in place of the regular 4 roller carriages. Yes they are more expensive but if it means you don't have to dip the car in salt water, it could be cheaper in the long run.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:50 am

The best and least expensive way to avoid dunking a tow vehicle in water is to have a longer trailer tongue. It is an easy DIY job to attach a longer tongue to a boat trailer. If that is too much of a job inexpensive tongue extenders are available. If trailer storage space is limited a folding tongue can be incorporated into the installation of a longer tongue.

The acquisition and maintenance costs of roller trailers is far more than for bunk trailers. Keep it simple and reap the benefit of saving both money and leisure time.
Butch

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:17 am

Limecc wrote:[Roller bunks ] are unlikely to ever come in a [Boston Whaler boat package]. To keep costs as low as possible to increase sales makes business sense.
I don't think you understand the approach of Boston Whaler to selling their boats. There has NEVER been any trend to make the cost of Boston Whaler boats LOWER than other boats. Boston Whaler boats have always been MORE EXPENSIVE than almost every other boat. Your notion that Boston Whaler has not offered a trailer with floppy-rollers because they are AFRAID that the increase in price of the package will discourage buyers is really humorous. A new 17-foot Boston Whaler boat now costs about $50,000, and the effect of adding another $100 for some rollers will not suppress sales.

Limecc wrote:Before one of the major US trailer manufacturers sees the aftermarket opportunity and starts offering their own version is just a matter of time.
The amount of time your predict be before U.S.A. boat trailer manufacturers adopt the product you endorse is somewhat vague. Will we see this next month? Next year? Next decade?

Limecc wrote:if [buying more expensive roller bunks] means you don't have to dip the car in saltwater, [roller bunks] could be cheaper in the long run.
Your paradigm (that without roller bunks the tow vehicle must be immersed into the sea depends) entirely on the slope of the launch ramp.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Limecc » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:14 am

jimh wrote:Your notion that Boston Whaler has not offered a trailer with floppy-rollers because they are AFRAID that the increase in price of the package will discourage buyers is really humorous.

The amount of time your predict be before U.S.A. boat trailer manufacturers adopt the product you endorse is somewhat vague. Will we see this next month? Next year? Next decade?

Pleased to have provided a little light humour and I don't have a crystal ball. Who cares anyway? People like and buy them already outside of the US.

And Boston Whaler better be concerned about price because there alternatives that buyers prefer over the Boston Whaler brand. That's the reality.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:29 am

Limecc wrote:...Boston Whaler better be concerned about price because there are plenty of alternatives....
I think you have now changed the topic to URGENCY FOR BOSTON WHALER TO DECREASE BOAT PRICES

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:26 pm

I've decided to replace the all-roller trailer with a new LoadRite trailer with adjustable bunks and added keel support with rollers or pads on the cross members.

Is aluminum or galvanized steel preferred?

The LoadRite models I've narrowed to are 5S-17245090VT (steel) and LR-AB17245090T aluminium).

There is an addition cost of $500 for aluminum.

The trailer comes with the PVC side guides, fender steps, and the bunks pivot on swivels.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:12 pm

I have owed two Load Rite Elite trailers, the second purchased 2 yrs ago. They are very good.

The 5S- means it is a 5 Starr model.

If you have tight storage location, go with galvanized. They have a shorter total-legnth-overall.

Trailer prices are inflated due to covid. Expect to pay around $2,200 for the 17245090VT.

Prices vary at the dealer. Shop dealers against each other. Think new car purchase.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:53 am

Buying a trailer from a manufacturer with wide distribution is a good choice. In areas with a lot of trailer boaters, there will usually be a local boat trailer manufacturer, but you can never be certain how long they will be in business. Getting a boat trailer from a manufacturer that is very established in the boat trailer business will more likely insure they'll be still in business in five years.

Choosing galvanized steel, painted steel, or aluminum may depend on your use. If you will be always launching in saltwater, aluminum might have an advantage. If your tow vehicle tow rating is marginal, you might be able to save some weight with an aluminum trailer. Galvanized steel is more durable than painted steel. Painted steel may survive in only-freshwater use.

I don't know why the aluminum trailer would intrinsically need to be longer than a steel trailer, but I often see aluminum trailers that seem to have intentionally been built with very long separation between the hitch and the boat bow stop. (On my trailer the boat bow pulpit sits over the hitch --there is no extra length in the tongue.)

Buying from a manufacturer that is not local will mean a delivery charge. Work with the dealer on that item. Here is why: a few years ago I happened to be at my local dealer when the dealer was taking delivery of some new boat trailers. The trailers were on a long low-profile semi-trailer that had been loaded at the factory with about ten or more boat trailers. The trailers were very compactly stacked up and laid out on the truck. Many had their winch posts removed to minimize overall height. On this truck load, there were only two trailers for my dealer. The load had been set on the trailer with the delivery route in mind. The two trailers for this dealer came off the top of the load, then the truck went off to the next dealer. In this way the cost of delivery was spread out over about ten trailers and several dealers, which should mean that the delivery cost to the ultimate buyer for one of those trailers ought to be quite reasonable if the dealer will pass on the savings from waiting for delivery until the next big load is headed his way.

If your local dealer wants just one trailer--your new order--shipped to him, and he wants it ASAP, it may come with a much higher delivery charge compared to what might be charged if you and he can wait for the next local area delivery from the factory of multiple trailers.

ASIDE: local trailer manufacturing around here seems to have gone entirely to low-profile open utility trailers often intended for lawn-mowing tractors to be hauled around. I guess no one mows their own lawn any more. Or to rather fancy enclosed trailers to haul very expensive motorcycles or snow-machines (SkiDoo) up north and keep them out of sight when not in use. I see far more of these type trailers on the road now than any boat trailers.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:04 am

Regarding refurbishing an older trailer or buying a new trailer:

Refurbishing or perhaps more appropriately would be to say rebuilding a boat trailer by buying the necessary parts at retail and installing them yourself--or in the worst case paying someone to install them--can often incur a cost that begins to approach a fair portion of the cost of buying a new trailer minus the income from selling the current trailer to someone else.

A thread describes in some detail my expenses at keeping my 1992 E-Z-LOADER trailer in good condition over the past ten years or more. I was surprised when I totaled the expenses at how much I had spent. At some point it might have been a better option to just sell the trailer and buy a new one. See

Trailer Refurbishment: 1992 E-Z-LOADER
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3874&p=21336&

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby routlirh » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:39 pm

Phil - what is the model of the [LOAD-RITE] trailer you shared [in Figure 3]?

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby Phil T » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:23 pm

The photo of the Load Rite trailer above is my personal trailer.

It is a Load Rite Elite - Model #18240096VT. It has a capacity of 2,400; Torsen Axle, 14" radial tires, 72" between fenders and an overall legnth of 20'4".

https://www.loadrite.com/trailers/load-rite-galvanized-single-axle-bunk-17/#

I admit it is a bit beefier than necessary for a 17' classic hull. I had the same model under my 1991 Outrage 17 in Maine and it was fault-less, hence the purchase of the same model for my 1992 Outrage 17 I I purchased several years ago.
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:59 am

Regarding a trailer being too beefy: using a boat trailer rated for a much higher weight load that the boat that will be hauled on the trailer can result is a ride that is more harsh due to stiffer spring or torsion-bar suspension of the axle or axles. Trailer suspension will tend to be rather stiff at the recommended weight and even stiffer with lighter loads.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby tlsch377 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:34 pm

I have a Shorelandr galvanized bunk trailer made in 2003. The bunks were bare 2X6 boards when I bought the 2006 180 Dauntless boat.

I first carpeted the bunks, but the boat didn't slide well. Then I placed a teflon-like cover--I don't remember the trade name--over the boards because they advertised the boat would slide on and off very easily. It really didn't make much of a difference.

If what I read in one of the post replies is correct, would installing keel rollers be effective in getting the boat to slide on and off better?

Would 8-inch wide keel rollers be better than the 12-inch wide rollers?

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby ConB » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:49 pm

I have a carpeted bunk trailer. I spray silicone on the carpet. The bunks are slippery enough that I do not unhook the winch until the boat is over water.

Con
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jimh
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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:08 pm

tlsch377 wrote:Would 8-inch wide keel rollers be better than the 12-inch wide rollers?
No.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:09 pm

ConB wrote:I have a carpeted bunk trailer. I spray silicone on the carpet. The bunks are slippery enough that I do not unhook the winch until the boat is over water.


I discovered that same property of silicone spray on carpeted bunks very late one night when launching the boat around 2 a.m.

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Re: Urgency to Change to Bunk Trailer from All-roller Trailer

Postby MarkCz » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:43 am

The addition of keel rollers may help you more easily load and unload the boat from the trailer if you have the rollers and bunks adjusted so that most of the weight is on the keel rollers and the bunks just provide some lateral support to prevent tipping.