Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
Byrdeaux
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Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby Byrdeaux » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:05 am

Q1: Does flaming KING StarBoard allow it to be attached [using adhesives] to [thin-wall laminated] fiberglass [surfaces] with a moderate load?

Q2: Will it be necessary to adhere stud bolts into the [thin-wall laminated] fiberglass for mounting KING StarBoard?

Q3: if 3M5200 is used, will encapsulated plywood or particle board easier to mount [to thin-wall laminated fiberglass]?

Give me advice based on first-hand experience with any of the following methods:
  • flamed KING Starboard adhered with 3M5200;
  • KING StarBoard mounted using "glassed studs";
  • KING StarBoard mounted using reinforced material;
  • encapsulated plywood or particle board mounted using 3M5200 adhesive.

BACKSTORY
I want to install a battery charger, an audio amplifier, a Mercury Active-trim, and Smartcraft modules under the console of my 170 Montauk. There is only a small area under the console that is reinforced for mounting items. It’s been suugested to layout and mount the new components to KING StarBoard, but I'm concerned with how to properly attach the KING StarBoard to the existing thin wall fiberglass.

The factory mounted the small [secondary power distribution panel] onto what looks to be a encapsulated piece of rough particleboard and used an adhesive [to attach the rough particle board to the thin laminated fiberglass surface of the console interior].
2018 170 Montauk

jimh
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby jimh » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:03 am

I did not use any of the methods for adhering a sub-base for mounting additional components to the thin laminated surface of the console that you have suggested. Thus I cannot give you any advice about my results with those methods. I used a much simpler method to create a mounting base inside the console of my boat for attaching new devices.

To create a base for mounting components inside the console of my boat, I used plywood. I coated the plywood with WEST System epoxy to create water resistance. To mount the plywood to the thin laminated surfaces of the console, I used stainless steel screw fasteners. I installed the screw fasteners with the screw fastener head visible from the outside of the console. I used oval-head screw fasteners, and I added a dress washer.

The screw fasteners were a combination of machine screws or self-tapping screws. In some cases I used existing holes in the console and increased the length of the screw fasteners to enable it to hold the plywood. I used elastic stop nuts on the machine screws with washers. In other cases I used self-tapping screws.

I chose the thickness of the plywood panels to be sufficient to hold self-tapping screw fasteners that hold the accessory items that would be mounted to the plywood panels.

Here are views of some plywood panels I made and installed inside the console, which appear in a article I wrote that detailed the installation of these devices:

Image
In this view you can see that an existing hole and machine screw fastener was used to retain the plywood at one end. The original screw was increased in length.

Image
Another panel was mounted by using self-tapping screws that threaded into the underside of the plywood from outside the console.

The above illustrations originally appeared in my article on installation of ICON Electronic Shift and Throttle remote controls.

PeterO
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Location: Quadra Island, BC, Canada

Alternative Material and Adhesive for Mounting Bases Where the Joint is in Compression

Postby PeterO » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:51 pm

[This article describes a method that is different from the methods proposed by the thread originator]

I wanted to install a wash-down pump without drilling holes.

I was advised it was problematic finding an adhesive that bonded to [KING StarBoard].

I used a "Jumbo Stern Pad" (https://www.seaworthyinnovations.com/sternpads) that attaches with 3M VHB adhesive. It's rated for loads up to 3-lbs. My pump weighs considerably more, but the pad is mounted as a horizontal base.

There has been [no loss of adhesion between the Jumbo Stern Pad material and whatever other material the Jumbo Stern Pad material was adhered to] since installed over a year ago.

Peter O.

Jloutrage
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Re: Alternative Material and Adhesive for Mounting Bases Where the Joint is in Compression

Postby Jloutrage » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:08 pm

I mounted a washdown pump to KING StarBoard with screws. Then I then secured the King StarBoard to a horizontal fiberglass surface with 3M4200 adhesive-sealant. I heated the KING StarBoard just prior to installing. No [failure of the adhesive joint has occurred] in three years.

dtmackey
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby dtmackey » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:00 am

I've found that trying to use adhesives on KING StarBoard is about the same as trying to glue Teflon. Many complain that the adhesion can be inconsistent. I'd opt for a G10 backer or another material for years of trouble free bonding.

D-

jimh
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby jimh » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:17 am

WEST System G-FLEX 650 might be a useful adhesive with KING StarBoard.

https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-ep ... ned-epoxy/

A prior discussion on this topic offers some hope:

https://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/018684.html

If you MUST use KING Starboard, it would be much simpler mount the KING Starboard base to the thin-wall fiberglass of the console using screw fasteners. On a boat, it is not like you never see the head of a screw fastener in plain sight--they are usually apparent in many places.

EyeDock
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby EyeDock » Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:22 pm

[To adhere KING StarBoard to a thin-wall laminate surface] I used the Weld Mount [Adhesive Fastening System products], stainless steel [adhesive threaded fasteners or] studs, and AT-8040 acrylic adhesive. I obtained excellent adhesion of the studs to the console.

I drilled mounting holes in the KING StarBoard mounting plate. No new holes were made in the console.

A company [perhaps means Weld Mount Adhesive Fastening System] website [perhaps means http://weldmountsystem.com/] directed me to a local supplier who had all those products on hand at a reasonable price. [To purchase the products] could not have been easier.

jimh
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:52 am

EYEDOCK--If I have correctly interpreted your post, I believe you did not use ANY adhesive to bond KING StarBoard to a thin-wall laminate. I THINK what you were trying to describe was the use of the the WELD MOUNT company's unusual "adhesive fasteners" which you refer to as "studs." These are threaded fasteners that are welded onto a thin circular plate forming a base. These are then adhered to the mounting surface, in this case thin-wall fiberglass laminate, using a WELD MOUNT adhesive designed for that purpose, AT-8040 acrylic adhesive.

Apparently the AT-8040 acrylic adhesive obtains a strong bond of metal to fiberglass laminates.

Then you mounted the KING Starboard to the laminate by drilling holes in the Starboard to match the locations for the WELD MOUNT adhesive fasteners you bonded to the thin-wall laminate, and secured the KING StarBoard with nuts to the threaded studs.

As you note, this method avoids having to make any holes in the thin-wall laminate to mechanically retain a machine screw or self-tapping screw that would perform the function of holding the KING StarBoard to the laminate. As I noted earlier, I don't see that there is an enormous loss of aesthetic appeal if, say, four new screw heads were visible on the exterior of the console for four fasteners used to mount a pad of KING Starboard. However, among all Boston Whale boat owners there must be some who have much greater concern about the aesthetics of seeing a fastener head on a boat than I have.

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Phil T
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby Phil T » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:14 pm

The console of a Montauk 170 does not contain particle board as a backing material.

Boston Whaler uses either plywood or several versions of plastic board using the names "whaler board" or "phenolic".

I suggest you review the owners manual and the wood locating diagram for the specific model year Montauk 170.

Personally I would mount a panel with stainless screws and spacers so the panel does not touch the wall. Install fasteners in areas where there is embedded backing boards in the fiberglass. If there is no backing material in the desired location, use stainless bolts with a fender washer on the outside, washer and a nylock nut in the inside.

Bonding Starboard is foolish as it requires a special 3M adhesive and, simply put is a pain in the ass.

Try not to over think this.
1992 Outrage 17
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jimh
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:43 pm

Byrdeaux wrote:Q2: Will it be necessary to adhere stud bolts into the [thin-wall laminated] fiberglass for mounting KING StarBoard?

Only if you have a preternatural aversion to seeing exposed screw heads of mechanical fasteners on your boat on the exterior surface of structures like a helm console.

ASIDE: This question seems to presage the later reply to use a proprietary adhesive fastener system to glue adhesive fasteners with threaded studs onto the thin-wall laminate.

jimh
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:36 pm

Based on what I saw in a demonstration form the manufacturer, I have a few questions regarding the method of using a proprietary adhesive fastener system in which a temporary adhesive "dot" holds the base of the threaded stud fastener on a circular metal base in place while the two-part main adhesive reaches a cure and becomes strong enough to retain the fastener in place.

How accurately can such a glue-on metal stud be positioned?

If the effect of gravity is acting to move the stud's position as the glue sets, is there any position drift?

Also, if a layout of studs, say four studs, is to be positioned to hold the four corners of a rectangular mounting base, I would think that perhaps, before drilling the holes in the mounting base, the studs would have to be glued in place first, then allowed to fully cure. Then the holes in the mounting base would have to be marked by using the actual position of the studs. To do otherwise would seem to risk getting a misalignment between the pre-drilled holes in the mounting base and the location of the studs placed by hand one-at-a-time onto the thin-wall laminate surface. I think landing a stud in a precise location and holding it there while the adhesive sets might be prone to some slight variation in final position. In any case, it sounds a lot more tedious than just laying-out four holes and carefully and accurately drilling them in the thin-wall laminate where a convention screw fastener will pass through to hold the mounting base in place.

Malcolm Goodfellow
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Re: Methods to Adhere KING StarBoard to Thin-wall Laminated Surfaces

Postby Malcolm Goodfellow » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:00 pm

Sudbury elastomeric sealant worked well for me. They often have a sample of various King Starboard shapes glued together, hanging on a chain from the peg the product it stocked on.

I tested it with just a light 100 grit sanding. Could NOT separate. Good adhesion.