Yamaha F70 and F70A

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
grizzly
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Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby grizzly » Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:55 am

[Moderator's note: this article has been separated from another discussion on an entirely different topic. Please do not join a discussion only to change the topic of the discussion.]

What are the changes made to the Yamaha F70 in the F70A model?

jimh
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:26 pm

Yamaha introduced the F70 engine in 2009. In Yamaha model designations "A" suffix indicates the first changed version. Now 13-years later, the current engines being sold in 2022 are usually F70A engines.

More information:

The c.2009 F70 "Hot Sheet"

The 2022 F70A on Yamaha website

My inference: in 13-years of manufacturing the F70 series, Yamaha apparently changed enough elements of the engine to prompt them adding the "A" designator to indicate first changed production. I don't know when the production epoch for the "A" engines began. If buying an engine in 2022, it would seem that a plain "F70" would not be the latest version. Yamaha often uses just the series identifier "F70" for all models, so there can be confusion. Also, I believe Yamaha stopped producing engines with model-year designators, although usually the production data of an engine is indicated somewhere on the engine itself.

If you discover the exact list of all changes, please let readers know. There may be a website somewhere who focus is exclusively on Yamaha engines, and that may be a better resource for your search for this information. Here the focus is mainly on older Boston Whaler boats; much historical data can be found on that topic.

dtmackey
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:55 pm

What about the F70LA since that's the current F70 model?

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:20 am

If you follow the link above to the 2009 documentation, you will find the model identifier scheme is described there. According to the scheme used by Yamaha:

F70LA
F=Four Stroke
70=HP
L=20-inch shaft
A=first change on motor

The L just indicates the shaft length.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:21 pm

Thanks for the feedback on F70, F70A and F70LA, but there is also a F70AET - which I believe is an overseas model. I'm sure there are even more model designators for the F70 out there.

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OldKenT
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby OldKenT » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:10 am

The model code chart on the second page of the Hot Sheet [linked above] identifies the meaning of the model designators.

It appears that Yamaha has designated this engine as the F70A since its introduction in 2009, and that any changes it has made have not resulted in a change in model designator to B. There certainly could have been changes made without a change in model designator. Perhaps Yamaha added the "A" designator to this F70 outboard in 2009 to distinguish it from the 2-stroke F70 available since the 1980s.'

For what it is worth, in March 2018, I had a new F70LA mounted on my 1985 17-foot Newport. "L" indicates a 20" length. It had a manufacture date of 9/17 and was delivered to my dealer here in eastern Massachusetts in March 2018.

According to my dealer, this outboard was identified by Yamaha as a model year 2018 F70LA and the delay between manufacture date and delivery date was due to transportation. At the time I place my order in late January, he had several other F70LAs in stock which had manufacture dates of 6/17 and earler, and serial numbers lower than the one installed on my boat, but I had specifically requested a 2018 model year, so he delayed until March for a new delivery of F70s and installed the one with the latest serial number.

The printed Owner's Manual which came with the outboard has a Yamaha Literature Code which is identical to the version of the Owner's Manual which was then available online. Each page of the online version, which I downloaded, is stamped "© 2018 Yamaha Motor Corporation". This suggests that Yamaha had not made any changes since the prior year.
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dtmackey
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:19 am

OldKenT wrote:The model code chart on the second page of the Hot Sheet identifies the meaning of the model designators. It appears that Yamaha has designated this engine as the F70A since its introduction in 2009, and that any changes it has made have not resulted in a change in model designator to B. There certainly could have been changes made without a change in model designator. Perhaps Yamaha added the "A" designator to this F70 outboard in 2009 to distinguish it from the 2-stroke F70 available since the 1980s.


I added pics of the Hotsheet for those who didn't follow the links:


Image

Image


I hadn't looked at the Hotsheet until now. The Yamaha F70 (as it's known) was a necessary product launch for Yamaha since this is a critical horsepower power rating and a popular motor that Yamaha has enjoyed good sales volumes. Since the 70-HP two-stroke engines were being phased out, due to EPA regulations, Yamaha needed to launch the F70, which was done so as the F70A and has remained the F70A that way since it's launch in 2009. People drop the "A" when discussing and call it an F70. I guess this is similar to the way people refer to an Evinrude 225, where many different iterations of that motor were launched over the years.

OldKenT wrote:Perhaps Yamaha added the "A" designator to this F70 outboard in 2009 to distinguish it from the 2-stroke F70 available since the 1980s.
While a good theory, that is not the case. Yamaha designates between two-stroke and -fourstroke models by putting an "F" in front of the horsepower rating to reference a four-stroke model. Yamaha models without the "F" prefix were two-stroke models. The below table shows the 70hp models over the years.

Image

The Yamaha engine model decoder is shown below.

Image

After 2005 they dropped the model year suffix since it helps dealers keep inventory current and without a change in design, it would not matter if the dealer had a motor made in 2020 or 2022 in stock and could maintain their selling price, rather than buyers negotiating them down for an "older" model like what is done in car buying.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:49 am

If the "F70" has always been identified more precisely as the F70A since 2009, then apparently no significant change has occurred in the production of this engine. The confusion seems to be with regard to the definition of "A" as indicating first "change." Perhaps it is a translation problem from Japanese. A better wording would be "version."

For many years the manufacturers of outboard engines introduced "new" models with every passing year, and it was presumed that there would be year-to-year changes with each new model year. That is a very reasonable assumption. For example, Evinrude E-TEC engines while being produced in model year sequences would typically always get some improvement or change with each model year introduction. I have collected several year of model year change information for those engines.

I have not done that for Yahama engines, but it would not surprise me to learn that there were some small changes made during the production epoch of 13-years in an F70 engine. That an 2009 engine and a 2022 engine are exactly the same down to the smallest part would seem quite amazing. Perhaps Yamaha just would rather not reveal any minor changes made in their model designator, and reserves the F70B for the still to come big change in the engine.

Evinrude was one of the last outboard engine manufacturers to drop model year designators, joining the crowd in c.2012. Afterward they began to distinguish production changes with three alphabetical suffixes. The first two letters identified major variations, with AA being the first, AB the second, AF the third, AG, AH, AI and so one. (AC, AD, AE had to be skipped to avoid ambiguity with previously used schemes) The third letter in the suffix gives the particular production run sequence, with A being the first run, B the second, C the third, and so on. Evinrude makes all this clear in their literature.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:56 am

jimh wrote:If the "F70" has always been identified more precisely as the F70A since 2009, then apparently no significant change has occurred in the production of this engine. The confusion seems to be with regard to the definition of "A" as indicating first "change." Perhaps it is a translation problem from Japanese. A better wording would be "version."


Correct, the F70 = F70A until such time a change to the motor is made that warrents an update of the model designation to F70B.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:57 am

I believe an F70AET would be decoded as follows
F=four-stroke-power-cycle
70=HP
A=first change or perhaps more clearly first version
E=manual tilt with electric start
T=undefined, perhaps means tiller

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:00 am

dtmackey wrote:Correct, the F70 = F70A until such time a change to the motor is made that warrants an update of the model designation to F70B.
But do you really think that absolutely nothing changed in 13-years?

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:04 am

jimh wrote:I believe an F70AET would be decoded as follows
F=four-stroke-power-cycle
70=HP
A=first change or perhaps more clearly first version
E=manual tilt with electric start
T=undefined, perhaps means tiller


Probably, but strange that they would have different ways of identifying across countries. I would think this would add and element of complication to having additional models, parts lists and repair manuals. While it may infact be the same motor, the repair manual would to match the different model designation.

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dtmackey
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:21 am

jimh wrote:
dtmackey wrote:Correct, the F70 = F70A until such time a change to the motor is made that warrants an update of the model designation to F70B.
But do you really think that absolutely nothing changed in 13-years?


After cross checking a number of key parts on both motors, it seems to be the same right down to the decal (I only checked large components (fuel pump, starter motor, bearings, electrical, etc). It would seem that Yamaha may have nailed the design on this model right out of the gate and didn't need to make running changes to improve it.

The key would be to get the Yamaha definition of "Second change on motor" to understand if this is a major change (such as an improvement to the cylinder head which improves economy or the styling of the motor is changed) or minor change - such as a change to the electronics chips in the ECU that doesn't impact the performance charateristics and are both forward and backward compatable across the F70A model designation. In a case like that they could just supercede a part number and leave the model desigination the same.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:44 pm

It may be quite possible that when in 2009 Yamaha introduced the F70A (although always calling it an "F70") that the product was completely mature and there has never been a single change in it. Perhaps Yamaha was not trying to continually react to the price of their common stock on some stock exchange, and gave the engineers plenty of time to properly design, build, and test the engine.

A friend of my who worked with the Japanese electronic firm SONY told me in the Japanese culture it would be considered a disgrace if a manufacturer introduced a product and then soon afterward had to come out with a revision or update to correct a fault in the product. The engineers who failed to properly design the product as originally released would be ashamed.

This is completely different ethos than the modern manufacturing culture in the USA where product revisions can occur on a week to week basis as defects in the prior designs are discovered and remedied. Products are rushed to market and their flaws are allowed to be discovered by the early adopters of the product, often causing discomfort only to the early buyers.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby Phil T » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:24 pm

I find this an interesting discussion to follow.

While in the past I would jump in to learn all the intricacies of the details, I have found that "Joe Owner" does not know or care about the correct model name and often refers to a four-stroke Yamaha without the F in the model name.

Who can forget the end of the outboard model year designation.

Educating owners on the, in this case, accurate model name, is an effort devoid of appreciation and lacks any clear indication of success. That said, keep it up.
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dtmackey
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:32 pm

Phil T wrote:While in the past I would jump in to learn all the intricacies of the details, I have found that "Joe Owner" does not know or care about the correct model name and often refers to a four-stroke Yamaha without the F in the model name.


To be transparent, I have a 2020 Yamaha F70 on my Whaler, but this "Joe Owner" is a little more interested in the mechanicals than the other Joe Owners who may not. j/k

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:21 am

ASIDE:
The typical boater "Joe Owner" probably cares not at all about Boston Whaler boats made in the 1980's. But that should not prevent us from discussing them. The notion that what can be discussed must be reduced in scope to the level of interest of "Joe Owner" is not applicable here.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:24 am

OldKenT wrote:The model code chart on the second page of the Hot Sheet [linked above] identifies the meaning of the model designators.

It appears that Yamaha has designated this engine as the F70A since its introduction in 2009...
I do not see how you make that inference from the information in the 2009 Hot Sheet publication.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:39 am

Another element of the Japanese marketing of products in North America:

As I am located in Detroit, there is a greater than normal focus in our local news to automobile manufacturing. I recall reading accounts of how some Japanese automakers had their dealers perform additional service work on new-model vehicles at no cost and without even notifying the customer, when the vehicle would be brought to the dealer for routine service work. For example, if a vehicle came back to the dealer for a routine oil change, the vehicle might get some other element repaired at that same time at no cost and without being mentioned to the customer. In this way, remedies for minor problems in the vehicle would be provided without the customer being aware of the work. This contributed to the customer's impression that the vehicle was "perfect" and never needed to have anything fixed, and helped to build the brand's reputation.

With regard to outboard engines, a dealer told me that in the initial days of the Yamaha outboard engines being introduced in North America, the wear components in the Yamaha engines were much better than typical American-brand engines. He cited as an example a propeller shaft seal. The American-brand seal was maybe a $20-part while the Yamaha brand seal was more like a $120 part and of much better quality. The same approach was used with a wear part like a water pump impeller. Among two or three friends of mine, two owned Yamaha outboards and one owned a Mercury. The Yamaha guys were changing the water pump impeller about once every five to ten years; the Mercury guy was changing the water pump impeller annually.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby OldKenT » Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:36 pm

To respond to Jim's question earlier today, the Hot Sheet was issued and dated 2009, and the last page provides an estimated weight for an F70LA as 260 pounds. Since the publication date of the Hot Sheet was the year that this outboard was first offered for sale, I think this means that the "A" model designation was in use since 2009.
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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:41 am

OldKenT wrote:To respond to Jim's question earlier today, the Hot Sheet was issued and dated 2009, and the last page provides an estimated weight for an F70LA as 260 pounds. Since the publication date of the Hot Sheet was the year that this outboard was first offered for sale, I think this means that the "A" model designation was in use since 2009.
The problem with that deduction is that there really is nothing in the Hot Sheet that indicates that the F70A model designation was already in use. That knowledge has come later in this discussion.

Again, the misleading element in the Hot Sheet is that the A suffix is supposed to designate a "first change." I think the whole problem stems from that definition. The A suffix apparently was intended to indicate the first production version, not the the first change from the initial version.

But based on what has been discovered, the F70A model has been in production since c.2009 or 2010.

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Re: Yamaha F70 and F70A

Postby dtmackey » Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:24 pm

Highly doubt there was an F70 and it's been the F70A from the time of product launch, as noted by the Yamaha models when looking up parts, no designation for an F70.

I will still refer to my F70A as an F70 since most people wouldn't be aware of the "A" suffix and start asking questions, sparking a long conversation.

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