1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Electrical and electronic topics for small boats
805Outrage21
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1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby 805Outrage21 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:35 pm

I have a 1994 Outrage 21. The existing navigation lamps need to be replaced, but the existing wires are too short to make an electrical connection. I’ve tried pulling and re-running new wires without success.

I’ve read information online suggesting that for many Boston Whaler boats the wiring for navigation lamps is run through the foam and cannot be replaced through the same route.

Is [the wiring for a navigation lamp on a 1994 OUTRAGE 21 run through the foam and cannot be replaced]?

If so, what is the best alternative repair?

Thank you.

[NOTE: This thread has been moved to SMALL BOAT ELECTICAL--jimh]

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Phil T
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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring

Postby Phil T » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:05 pm

If possible, solder pigtail wires.

If not, this was posted by a fellow owner:
http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1500
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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:31 pm

I am not particularly familiar with the 1994 OUTRAGE 21 boat, but, based on looking at the catalogue photographs, my inference is the sidelight lamps are separate RED-GREEN lamps mounted on the gunwales a few feet aft of the bow.

I suggest you very carefully inspect the existing wiring of the two sidelight lamps. It may be that the path for the wiring already is or can be moved to lay under the rub rail. If not already run that way, you will implement that path as follows:

  1. drill a shallow hole under the sidelight lamps with about 0.5-inch diameter, just deep enough so that another hole can be drilled from the hull side under the rub rail to reach the location of this new hole; inspect carefully before drilling to make sure you won't drill through some structural part of the boat; the new hole should just be into foam;
  2. remove the rubrail temporarily and drill a new hole into the hull from a location under the rub rail so that the hole will meet the new 0.5-inch hole you made under the navigation lamp; or course, you have to drill both these holes with care and skill; this hole has to be only large enough to permit two conductors to be threaded through it;
  3. if the two new holes are successfully made, you then can run wiring into the hull from the under the rub rail, and then pull that wiring out of the new 0.5-inch hole under the lamp
  4. the new wiring is run aft, under the rub rail, until it reaches a location where it can jump into the cockpit.
  5. at this location, you drill a hole into the hull, allowing the new wiring to lead into the cockpit; this may be located at the stern of the boat, or, if more convenient, abeam the helm console, assuming there is some wiring path available there to reach the console;
  6. the exit of this new hole will be covered by a small plastic enclosure, which you will buy for that purpose, or by a clamshell vent (see below); see this thread for a typical plastic box enclosure.

The wiring to the white all-round pole lamp at the stern should be much simpler and much more accessible. You will likely be able to implement a remedy to that wiring without much trouble or need to create a new wiring path.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:44 pm

If circumstances require attempting to use wiring embedded in the hull, which now only projects clear of the hull a short distance, a method to attach new wiring to old wiring that is barely protruding from the hull is illustrated below:

stubWiring1.png
Fig. 1. An illustration showing a method of making good electrical contact to wiring that is barely accessible.
stubWiring1.png (37.54 KiB) Viewed 12753 times


stubWiring2.png
Fig. 2. Use of a clamshell vent to cover the exit of wiring from the hull.
stubWiring2.png (13.13 KiB) Viewed 12753 times


I recommend trying the following:

  • carefully strip the insulation from the end of the wire stub emerging from the hull;
  • it is common that older wires will have the copper contaminated with oxidation and gunk from the vinyl or PVC wire insulation; this must be carefully cleaned and removed before trying to solder. Try using a cleaner that says it will remove oxidation from copper pans;
  • with the bare wire clean, tin the wire with solder;
  • connect to the bare wire with a new marine grade tinned multi-strand copper wire formed into a loop around the stub wire. Solder the two wires together;
  • in all soldering use just enough heat to get the solder melted and flowing; avoid melting the wire insulation;
  • when a good contact has been made, verify continuity in the circuit;
  • coat the connection with liquid vinyl electrical tape;
  • protect the connection with some sort of plastic clamshell vent or other similar fitting; this will hide the connection, and also dress up the wire exit
.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby NLA01 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:07 pm

It is my understanding that the wire runs under the rub rail. Check under your fuel fill access plate and see if there is navigation lamp wiring there.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:04 am

Generally a Boston Whaler made after c.1972 won't have the wiring to the navigation lamps embedded in foam, and they will be found under the rub rail.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby PeterO » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:39 am

NavigationLampWiring1_.jpg
Fig. 3. Navigation lamp wiring typical in post-1972 Boston Whaler boats. One BLACK-GRAY pair enters into a hole; the other pair continues onward, under the rub rail.
NavigationLampWiring1_.jpg (23.65 KiB) Viewed 12594 times


NavigationlamoWiring2_.jpg
Fig. 4. Both BLACK-GRAY pairs enter a hole to reach the cockpit.
NavigationlamoWiring2_.jpg (27.67 KiB) Viewed 12594 times


My understanding is in most modern Whalers the navigation light wiring runs in a conduit from the centre console under the port floor and up the port gunwale, and then forward in a channel under the rub rail.
Peter O.

[Added captions to illustrations--jimh]

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:54 pm

PETER--thanks for the illustrations of navigation lamp wiring in a newer Boston Whaler. I see the paired BLACK-GRAY two conductor flat cable is still used.

I also note in Figure 3 that you can see abrasion on the gray insulation of the paired conductor going into the hole. The hole also looks like it was drilled in a big hurry, with rough edges remaining on the exit.

805Outrage21
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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby 805Outrage21 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:32 am

Thank you very much for the detailed replies. Once I get a spare moment I will investigate the possibility of the wiring running along the rub rail. As for soldering the short wires, unfortunately the port wiring is far too short (due to a break when trying to pull on them) to access with even the narrowest soldering iron.

Will the rub rail be easy to reinstall once removed?

Thanks again.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:28 am

805Outrage21 wrote:Will the rub rail be easy to reinstall once removed?


The black vinyl insert of the rub rail can be returned to the white receiver track of the rub rail without too much trouble. The black vinyl insert becomes more pliable as its temperature increases. Work on this project on a hot day after the boat has been sitting in strong sunlight for a few hours. Or, use a hot-air gun to warm the black vinyl insert of the rub rail to make it more pliable.

Advice about rub rail installation is given in an article in REFERENCE. See

Rub Rail Replacement
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/rubRail.html

The article was written almost 20-years ago.

The FAQ in REFERENCE also contains the same answer. See

Q13: How Are Rub Rails Replaced?
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q13

The FAQ also contains advice on repair or replacement of navigation lamp wiring. See

Q4: How Do I Repair the Wiring for the Combined Sidelights at the Bow?
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:13 am

If you need to remove the rub rail to access the wiring to the navigation sidelight lamps, you should plan to replace ALL of the wiring. The cost of the wire will be modest, and by replacing it you can provide for many years of no-trouble operation. I advise against trying to make a butt-splice repair of the wiring under the rub rail.

Actually, I advise against ANY butt-splice of wiring on a small boat. If the electrical distribution center is at the helm of a small boat, and the helm is roughly amidships, then, for example, on a 25-foot boat the longest conductor is likely to only be slightly longer than half the boat length. It seems very unnecessary to splice conductors together in order to make a run of wire end-to-end that won't be much longer than half the boat length. In some wiring, it will be inevitable that a butt-splice must be used, typically if a pre-wired connector with a pigtail of wires is provided for some purpose. But absent some inevitable necessity for a butt-splice, they should be avoided.

The GRAY-BLACK two-conductor flat cable may be hard to find. Alternative cable may be:

  • using a jacketed 16-AWG marine grade duplex cable; the jacket will increase the size of the cable and may cause problems in fitting it under the rub rail; the wire colors won't be GRAY and BLACK
  • use individual 16-AWG conductors , which can easily be obtained with GRAY and BLACK insulation; these may be harder to wrestle in place under the rub rail
  • use a flat two-pair cable intended for landscaping, but generally not tinned conductors.

Below are links to possible vendors of each type of cable mentioned above.

Marine-grade flat two-conductor jacketed cable, selling for about $39 for 100-feet:
RED/YELLOW or RED/BLACK http://www.genuinedealz.com/16-awg-gaug ... uplex-flat

Individual marine grade 16-AWG conductors, selling for about $18 for 100-feet
GRAY: http://www.genuinedealz.com/16-awg-gaug ... grade-gray
BLACK: http://www.genuinedealz.com/16-awg-gaug ... rade-black

Landscape wire, unfortunately bare copper conductors, not tinned, for about $22 for 75-feet
BLACK/BLACK: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-7 ... /308403420

I have not performed a complete replacement of the navigation lamp wiring under the rub rail on my own boat, but my preference would be to use marine grade wire. I would get a small sample of the jacketed marine-grade flat two-conductor cable, and assess if the cable would be possible to fit under the rub rail without too much difficulty. If the jacketed cable were too big physically for a good fit, I would revert to using individual conductors. Handling four individual conductors and trying to fit them back in place under the rub rail might be tedious, but I am sure it can be done.

A final alternative for wire might be to try to purchase some from Boston Whaler, although I expect their per-foot price would be higher than generic wire on the market.

If you use a generic two-conductor cable the wire insulation color won't be the OEM color scheme. You can re-mark the wire when it comes to the electrical panel by using SCOTCH 35 Color Vinyl Electrical Tape. Of course, black tape is easy to find. Gray tape is available, too, but perhaps harder to find.

Also, I don't see that there is a necessity to run completely separate cables to each sidelight lamp. If there is room, you could make a connection at the first sidelight lamp between the two-pair conductor that supplies the power, the lamp conductors, and an extension two-pair conductor to run to the other lamp. Of course, this depends on how much room is available under the lamp or in the lamp housing.

A final option may be to use conductors of 18-AWG to save space. However, finding marine-grade two-conductor flat cable in 18-AWG is difficult. There is a general recommendation that the smallest conductor size in boat wiring should be 16-AWG, no matter what current is involved.

The vendor GENUINEDEALZ is a good source. I have purchased marine-grade wire from them in the past. Their prices are very good. The wire they sent was often marked with the ANCOR brand name, although they do not advertise or guarantee you will get ANCOR-branded wire. The non-ANCOR brande wire was of similar grade and quality.

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Phil T
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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby Phil T » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:32 am

I recall Tom Clark, a veteran Whaler owner and respected "guru" on all things whaler, recommends using marine speaker wire (tinned) for running wires to the bow navigation lamps given its thinner sheath.
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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:29 am

PHIL--can you point to a vendor that sells the wire that Tom recommends?

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:57 am

The principal element that turns ordinary copper wire into marine-grade wire is the use of tinned conductors. Bare copper wiring is generally not used in marine applications because any exposure to seawater will turn copper wire into copper chloride, the greenish color you often see on any copper that comes in contact with seawater.

Marine-grade wire may also imply insulation material that survives being wetted with seawater and other liquids common on boats. Marine -grade wire and its insulation should also be flexible over a wide temperature rage, as marine wiring often has to pass through bulkheads or make tight bends.

Marine-grade wire also implies stranded wire, in order to not tend to fracture due to vibration. The higher the strand-count, the more flexible the wire.

Quality marine-grade wire from a vendor like ANCOR will have the following characteristics:

  • meet or exceed UL 1426, ABYC and US Coast Guard Charter boat (CFR Title 46) standards;
  • have vinyl insulation rated at 600 volts, 105-deg-C dry and 75-deg C-wet;
  • stay flexible at -40 deg-C;
  • have insulation that can resist saltwater, battery acid, oil, gasoline, heat, abrasion and ultra-violet radiation;
  • have ultra-flexible tinned copper stranding for protection against corrosion, electrolysis, and fatigue due to vibration and flexing.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby Phil T » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:40 pm

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:44 pm

ASIDE: on my 1990 Boston Whaler boat (a REVENGE 22 W-T WD), I always thought the white all-round lamp was not fully illuminated. I inspected the wiring for the lamp. Step one was to replace the original connector; the original connector was still working, but I thought its design was not the best. I bought a new connector, but before installing it, I inspected the wiring for the lamp.

Step two was to trace the wiring to the lamp from the helm. In that process I discovered that the original BLACK/GRAY two-conductor flat cable was spliced and connected by butt-splices--in three places. I cannot imagine how that came about. I removed all of the original BLACK/GRAY flat cable, and replaced it with a new, continuous, unspliced run for 16-AWG GRAY wire to the new lamp connector at the stern from the navigation lamp control switch at the helm.

Step three was to NOT run the negative circuit all the way back to the helm, but instead to install a new 16-AWG BLACK wire from the new connector to the aft negative secondary bus. This removed about 10-feet of wire from the circuit.

When finished, the white all-round lamp illumination was noticeably brighter, as the incandescent lightbulb was now likely getting much higher voltage than with the mishmash wiring that had existed.

For the two-pole connector at the white all-round pole lamp, I used a Deutsch-type connector. I purchased a male and female connector body, silver plated contacts, and a set of male and female weather caps. I don't have the pole lamp installed all the time. In fact, most of the time it is not in place. It only gets used if we are underway in a period of darkness. Since most of boating in north of latitude 45-degrees-N and in Summer, darkness does not occur until about 9 p.m. local time, so the boat is seldom actually showing navigation lighting underway. We do use the pole lamp for an anchor lamp when we are anchored out for the night.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:45 pm



I believe I already linked to GENUINEDEALZ and mentioned ANCOR as a source. Neither of those links are to "speaker wire". Although Tom mentions that ANCOR has unsheathed flat two-conductor cable, I don't see it listed at those vendors.

I searched the ANCOR on-line catalogue, and found a listing on page 16 for "Flat Ribbon Bonded Cable." This cable is premium tinned bonded copper conductors, and is available only in RED/BLACK insulation colors. The wire is only available in 16-AWG. A 100-foot spool is part number 153110.

There is also a listing on page 17 for "Super Flex Audio Cable." This cable has premium tinned copper, is "super flexible" and has a clear jacket. This product is available in 18-AWG and 16-AWG. The corresponding part numbers for a 100-foot spool are 142810 and 142610. But finding a convenient retail source for this remains to be solved.

You can view the catalogue on line at http://www.delzer.com/powerproducts/ANC_CAT_003/11/#zoom=z

I'd use the Flat Ribbon Bonded Cable with the RED/BLACK insulation in preference to the speaker cable. I have my doubts about the insulation quality on the speaker cable, as it is clear vinyl.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby Phil T » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Jim-go to genuinedealz and type "marine speaker wire", the page I linked is the result. If you review the linked page, in the upper left it says: "Category:Speaker Wire Marine Grade.

If you do a google search/walmart.com search for "Ancor Marine Speaker Wire, the linked page is the result.

In my review of the above links and further investigation I have since found Defender.com produces a result that is actually 100% accurate in the results:

The third listing is sold by the foot.

https://www.defender.com/search.html?q=ancor%20+%20Elc055N

Lesson learned : Web search engines substitute replacements when exact match is not found. Subtle bait and switch.
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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:02 pm

Phil--not that it really matters: when I follow the link you posted the word "speaker" is not there. The link points to the same webpage I posted earlier, showing a sheathed two-conductor flat cable.

That last link you just posted to DEFENDER does show ANCOR speaker wire. Thanks for digging up that link.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:07 pm

Since I endorsed the ANCOR two-conductor flat bonded cable, I feel obligated to point to a link where you can easily obtain it. Here is a source:

ANCOR Two-conductor flat bonded 16-AWG cable
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=153110

SOLIDSIGNAL happens to be located near to me. They are selling 100-feet for $39. I think that is going to be a little cheaper than the "speaker" wire at about $49 for 100-feet, although you can buy the speaker wire in smaller lengths.

However, when buying any sort of wire for a project, keep in mind this very well known property of wire:

MURPHY'S LAW FOR WIRE: Any cable cut to length will be too short.

The same goes for wire ordering. I always order about twice as much cable as I think I will need. Anything left over just helps me avoid having to order more the next time I need a bit of wire to hook up something on the boat.

ALSO: another scam to avoid in buying wire from internet vendors is the use of the term "copper-coated." Internet sellers of wire often pass off aluminum wire--the worst possible wire for marine use--as "copper" wire by using the phrase "copper coated."

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:20 pm

Re using sheathed two-conductor flat cable: you do not have to retain the sheath when the cable reaches the holes passing through the rub rail into the lamp. Strip back the sheath at that point, and run just the two conductors into the hole. Of course, leave plenty of length for the conductors so you can easily work with them making connection to the lamp.

Before installing new wiring, check any existing holes for roughness and residue around the hole exit. The holes seen in illustrations above show some rather roughly drilled holes that could use some refinement.

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby NLA01 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:27 pm

Advice on the rub rail: once you pull the end cap and start pulling the insert part out of the rub rail base [receiver track] keep the insert stretched to the end of the boat. If you pull out the insert and do not keep it stretched, it will shrink and you will struggle getting it to reach the end cap on the transom for reinstall.

I recommend to pull out the insert, hang it down the boat, and reattach the end back in the hole with the screw where it started on the end cap. Keep in insert hanging on the side of the boat with bungees. When you reinstall the insert keep it attached on the very end where the finish cap is. This will keep the insert stretched. You you don't do this the insert will be short on the re-installation.
Archie

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Re: 1994 Outrage 21 Navigation Lamp Wiring Repair

Postby jimh » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:47 am

I am not certain the entire rub rail must be completely removed and unattached at each end in order to work on the electrical cable routing that lies beneath. As Figure 4 (above) shows, the aft portion of the black vinyl insert remains in the white receiver track while a segment of the rub rail is removed to access the electrical wiring.

By warming the rub rail with a hot air gun, and it should be possible to pop-out the black vinyl insert from the white receiver track in the area where the cables for the navigation lamps will be routed while the end of the rub rail remains still attached at the stern and still in the receiver track.

For a source of two-conductor flat 16-AWG cable with black and gray insulation see

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5328