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Author Topic:   What is normal waterline for 25?
LarrySherman posted 08-31-2001 08:54 AM ET (US)   Profile for LarrySherman   Send Email to LarrySherman  
I reposted this from my newsflash. I'm going to bring my boat down the sound this weekend, and want to be certian that all is right before setting out.

The boat has about 100 gallons of gas in the tanks, a Johnson 235 and a Merc 4 stroke 15 bigfoot kicker, mounted on the wrong side (Unfortunatly, my old Sy-Ten starboard side splashwell steering system was still installled when I mounted the kicker). I of course pulled the plugs (aft only, no nerve to do the forward baitwell), and let her fill. Water got to within about 3 inches of the top of the baitwell with me standing in the boat (I'm somewhere north of 250, not fat mind you, just big).

With 3 adult men in the stern (about 600-625lbs) the boat got deep. Seemed to be about 4 - 5 inches from the top of the transom to the water. That is, with about 1300lbs on or near the transom. Is this normal?

I put the plugs back in, pumped the baitwell out and put the bilge pump on auto. Even with the pump on auto, and with starboard side plug pulled, the pump does not run unless I go stand in the aft starboard corner.

Standing on the dock with all the plugs in and the wells dry, I'd guess there was about 10" from the top of the transom to the water.

Please let me know what is normal. I need a little confidience here!

acseatsri posted 08-31-2001 09:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
As Whaler fans, we should get together and go fishing. I'm in Bristol, CT. If you like, drop me an email-
bigz posted 08-31-2001 09:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Larry, there is no such thing as a "normal" waterline. There is an arbitrary line which was determined by the factory designers based on the normal loading of the boat. That gave them the base line to determine the amount of freeboard the boat has under typical load conditions.

Your test was not "typical"! Heck if I loaded say the 27 ccc with 3 big guys, filled the aft bait tanks and all stood aft (if I filled the bilge we'd have water over the transom and the motor pans would be covered), then measured the transom probably would be just a few inches above the water at the cut out! Where was the bow above the water?

Can't understand either your concern or need here.

If you want to boot stripe her well that's one question.

If you want bottom paint well that's another question.

If you want to know that's she is way to low in the test you did -- I'd say NO.

If your trying to determine if she is safe because of that ProLine tragedy, I'd say she is safe as safe as anything afloat aside from the seagulls ---

Larry don't sweat the petty stuff, if it is your worried about those poor fellows in the Pro-Line don't be, since even with a freeboard of 3-6" at the transom you could still pull a mighty fine bluefin in with out a problem.

You have got her in now go play -- enjoy --- going to be a super weekend once this high pressure pushes down ---

Peter posted 08-31-2001 10:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     

I agree with Bigz that there is no such thing as a normal water line. The waterline of any given boat depends on how the boat is usually loaded at rest. Seemingly identical boats may not have identical waterlines. From your description, it sounds like it floats just fine with the plugs in and out.

FYI, the transom freeboard, measured from the top of a Whaler's notched transom to the waterline, is typically pretty short in the classic 18-25 Outrage. It's designed to be that way. This, plus the low gunwhale freeboard, adds to the Outrage/Revenge's stability when swamped. I would say that I probably have no more than 10" of transom freeboard on my Revenge with a 500lb Yamaha on the transom, two batteries, oil tank and a trim tab hydraullic pump in stern section.

Also, when loaded up with the normal amount of coolers, people and gear, don't be alarmed if you take some water over the transom once in a while, when drifting or backing down in a following sea, even with 10 inches of transom freeboard. Just be mindful of it when it is happening and try to minimize it.

Now that she's in the water, what are you calling home port?

LarrySherman posted 08-31-2001 11:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Thanks guys.

My concern comes from lack of familiarity with big Classic Whalers, and from my worries about the integrity of the foam. I got her as dry as I could, but had no way of knowing what was really going on inside the core. From your posts, it sounds like all is well.

And quite honestly, that is amazing, as this boat sat in the water at fishers Island for 20 years with very little if any maintience. If I had to guess, I would say that the drain tubes corroded through at least 5-6 years ago. These boats can take an amazing amount of abuse!

My only personnel experience with Whalers prior to the 25 was a 13 I had when I worked at Yankee Harbor in Stamford as a teenager. It had an Evinrude 40 and would go like stink.

I wanted a boat to indoctrinate my children into the wonder of the ocean and all things pertaining to it. It had to be safe. I knew I wanted a Whaler. Then I found this site, and saw lhg's 25, and kind of became fixated on a 25. I then found this one in soundings online, and I have always believed in going big, or staying home.

On my birthday, January 20th, I drove up to Noank, looked her over and made the offer. I went big.

I'll be keeping her at Greewnwich Capital's docks in Greenwich CT. Remeber, I have made no cosmetic improvments yet, so don't judge her by her looks.

Thanks again guys, I feel better.

Reliant posted 08-31-2001 02:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Reliant  Send Email to Reliant     

Good luck with your 25. It sounds to me that you are in the same situation with your outrage that I was in with mine; an old boat that you have put a lot of work into. Don’t be discouraged if you have problems at first. I know I did. Last spring and summer, I put nearly five months of effort into mine. On the maiden voyage last August, some bracket came loose on the port engine which held the shift and throttle cables. The engine suddenly would barely shift and would not throttle. Simultaneously, the starboard engine developed a bubble in the oil line and seized. While we were digging out my tools to try and fix the port engine, I found the bag containing my drain plugs, which I could not find earlier.

We limped back to the dock were one of the local fishermen was waiting and after inquiring as to what the problem was, asked me if I was going to scrap the name off of my boat. I looked at the name that I had put on the boat the day before and said to him, “Any boat that can get me back to the dock with one engine blown, the other engine malfunctioning and without most of the drain plugs installed has earned the right to carry the name ‘Reliant’”.

Your boat will be worth all the time, money and trouble you have and will put into her. It will take some time for you to get comfortable with your new boat. But, once you do, she will amaze you, your family and friends with her capabilities in the big water.

Good luck and congratulations,


P.S. I am also dyslexic. That is why I post so infrequently. It takes me a couple of hours per post to try and get things somewhat legible ;-)

LarrySherman posted 08-31-2001 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     

Great post! Just the vote of confidence I needed. I am somewhat nervous about the maiden voyage, as 100 miles for a first trip is somewhat long. And if there is a weak spot in my abilities, it is with Outboards. I'm going to get her up on plane and be gentile.

Don't let the dyslexia stop you from posting please. I think it just make us more unique!

Thanks, Larry

Peter posted 08-31-2001 05:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     

I've done a length of the Sound trip many times starting from or ending in Niantic. It'll be a piece of cake in a 25 Outrage. Make sure you bring a real chart and plot a route on your GPS before leaving Noank. I usually use the bells on the CT side for way points. For a first trip, I'd set a course out towards the middle (between NY and CT) of the Sound. Its generally about a 255 degree compass heading all the way down.

Your 235 is probably the older 2.6 liter cross-flow V6. If so, it will have several cruising sweet spots between 3000 and 4000 RPM. Listen to the engine carefully in that range. You'll know when you hit a sweet spot because the the engine quiets down quite a bit.

dfmcintyre posted 08-31-2001 08:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Larry -

Like the others posted, I'd not worry about it. I had a 25 Revenge Cuddy I/O that sat and rode considerably different from a good friends 25 Revenge Walk Through w/2-150 O/B's. Neither rode "better", just different.

If you want, I can email three recent shots of the waterline from Walt's 23 W/T.

Just take her out and have fun. That's why God created fiberglass....

LarrySherman posted 08-31-2001 10:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Thanks ALL!

I'm so excited, I can hardly wait. I still have so much work to do, but bring her home will be a great feeling!

The last time I made the trip, I was 17. I was working in Yankee Harbor Marine in Stamford (long gone, just condos now), and they asked me if I would deliver a SeaRay 20' something or other from Sag Harbor to Stamford, $100 to me! Wow I thought, I;m big time now! A real delivery skipper!!!

Well, I got tosted in Sag Harbor, and woke up late. Slack water at Plum gut was like 6:20am, and it was now nearly 8:00. So I went and got a pack of smokes and a cup of coffee and headed out. Big mistake. wind was bowing about 15-20 against the tide in the gut, and the waves were steep and short! and I was green and stupid! I decided to try and stay on plane through the gut. That lasted about the ten seconds it took me to land on the face of the next wave at 20 od so knots. I thought I broke my back, much less the boat.

I slogged through it, and the engine started to make funny noises. Then I noticed the temp guage going up, and the oil pressure low. I I was so hung over, I had never checked the boat at the dock. Not much of a deliver skipper!

So I kill the engine in the middle of the gut, and go below looking for a quart of oil. I find a case of it! It does not dawn on me that this is a bad sign. It is some model Merc I/O, and when I open up the cover and pull the dip stick, there does not appear to be any oil at all. But the boat is rocking so bad in the middle of plum gut at full flood, that I'm not sure if the oil is just somewhere else. I pur in two quarts and fire it up, as I'm getting more afraid as my hangover wears off.

I pound out into calmer water, and check the oil again. When I do I relaize that the bilge is not painted black, but is rather black with oil. I pour in another quart, check the stick, pour in another and try to fire her up. She starts hard, but starts.

I determine not shut her down again, and off I go, adding a quart of oil about every half an hour, and leaving a huge slik behind me.

So all I bought was a cup of coffee, which I finished before the gut, and a pack of Winston's.

No Water at all.

It's mid July, 1980. Temp about 100. Clear blue sky. And I'm not going thirty, but about 12, as I don't want to blow the motor. I get somewhere off New Havan, and I miss a bouy. I page back though the chart kit looking for the bouy I just passed. I can't find it. So, I'm a hungover dehydrated 17 year old punk in a broken boat in the middle of LI sound, and I think I'm lost. Obviously time for more cigerettes! I've smoked the whole pack in about an hour, but got myself found, I'm just off Milford.

I now have 1 quart of oil left. Its 40 miles to Stamford, and I don't have any smokes. My throat feels like I just finished the Battaan march. And its 2:30 in the afternoon. Did I mention that I did not bring any sun screen?

I made it home on that quart of oil, going about 7 knots, at 8:00pm.

When asked how it went, I said "Fine."

When aske what took so long, I said "I was enjoying the ride."

When asked about the boat, I said "I think it uses a little oil."

I learned a few life lessons that day, thus my excessive caution.


lhg posted 09-04-2001 07:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Larry, I never realized I was the inspiration for your Whaler project. Thanks for the compliment, and I hope you're not regretting the decision to buy a 25.

Anyway, regarding water line, like mentioned, it depends on power, brackets, etc. On mine, which sits lower in the stern than most others I've seen, because of the full transom, bracket pushing the engine weight back 26", and twin 200's, even when standing in the stern (I'm about 180) with both sump plugs out, twin bats and twin oil tanks in splash well, water stays about 3" below floor in the sumps. I believe the boat hull to be completely dry.

LarrySherman posted 09-04-2001 08:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Don't worry Larry, I don't hold you responsible! I love my 25, but it has been some education thus far, let me tell you.

I just did not realize how much work would be involved in fixing her. I compleatly underestimated the time it would take to complete the project, and the cost of parts and materials. You can nickel and dime (well really more like $5 and $100) yourself into the poor house repairing an old boat.

And having been an IT professional for the last 15 years, I should have know this would happen. I was guided by my heart, not my mind, and that's ok. For me, the work is really about 70% of owning a boat anyway, so I'm happy. I have not totaled my reciepts, and quite honestly, don't think I ever will. I really don't want to know.

Jacqueline has been in the water for about a week, and there is no noticable change in her waterline. That tells me that at least so far, my hull repairs (small stuff, like pluging old clamshell screw holes, etc) and new through hulls are holding up well. Thats good news.

And she looks great at the dock! I've already had people come up to me and tell me what a cool boat she is, and that they wish they had one like her. Wild. If they olny knew...

I still have not figured out which way I am going to refinish her topsides (decks, console, coaming, etc). I must say that splatter paint seems like the easy way out. The gelcoat is in such bad shape, I'm just not sure what to do. Any ideas are of course welcome.


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