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Author Topic:   Reference Article: Central Hull Cavity and Deck
jimh posted 01-25-2004 01:00 PM ET (US)   Profile for jimh   Send Email to jimh  
Please use this message thread exclusively for questions related to the material in the Reference Section article

Cockpit Deck and Central Hull Cavity Overhaul

Hyperlink:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/centerDeckRepair.html

This article shows the overhaul of a 1988 Boston Whaler GUARDIAN 20's center deck covering and the central hull cavity beneath it.

It is anticipated that Jason Richer, the boat's owner and renovator, will be monitoring this thread and can reply to questions. Jason also plans to contribute additional material related to this portion of the boat's restoration as he has time (and good weather) to accomplish the work.

Many thanks to Jason for contributing the fine photographs and for sharing this project with other Boston Whaler boat owners.


WHALER27CC posted 01-25-2004 06:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for WHALER27CC  Send Email to WHALER27CC     
Great article/Pics!I give Jason ALOT of credit for taking on the job, hes a braver man than I am.I gotta say though, every time I read an article that relates to the foam,gas tanks,or rot in the decking, it makes me very,very, nervous about these things I cant see!!
Peter
I think Im starting to break out in hives again!!!
Tom W Clark posted 01-25-2004 09:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Jason,

I now appreciate how much effort you put into stripping that fuel tank cover. You've done a superb job of it.

I have a few questions:

You say the original plywood backing was two layers of 3/8" thus creating a net thickness of 3/4". Was that true of the whole cover? There was no 3/4" plywood used there?

You replaced that plywood with Medium Density Overlay (MDO) plywood which is commonly used for road signs. That wasn't what Whaler had used, was it? Was there any indication of what grade of plywood had been used? No grade stamps visible?

How was the sheeting of the original plywood laid out? was it in 2' x 4' pieces? or 4' x 8' or combinations of different sizes?

Was the fuel tank cover difficult to handle without the plywood backing? Was it limp or was it stiff? Did you need to worry about maintaining its flatness while epoxying the new plywood on?

jimh posted 01-26-2004 12:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
What was the intended purpose of the t-shaped channel that is molded into the hull adjacent to the PORT side of the central cavity? Was it intended to provide a wiring path for possible cables that may need to come under the deck and up to a center console?

Also, the small white tube that traverses between the central cavity and this PORT side channel might be intended as a cable conduit, too, for example, to route an electric fuel level sensor to the meter on the console. Or is it just a drain?

Speculation or informed opinion invited.

Tom W Clark posted 01-26-2004 01:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Jim,

The T-shaped channel that is molded into the hull adjacent to the Port side of the central cavity is obviously for rigging purposes. Remember that the mold that produced this hull also produced hull that were used for many different models of the 22 foot Whaler. It was part of the 22's mold at least as far back as 1980 as evidenced by David Junker's V-22 seen here in the Cetacea section:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage70.html#70-06

I am sure it was provided for any number of uses involving the running of wires or cables from the helm area to other parts of the boat.

The small white "drain between this T channel and the main fuel compartment is plainly visible on the exploded parts diagrams for the 22 foot models that were published in he mid 1980's so we know this is a factory construction. My guess is that it is a drain for the otherwise undrainable T-shaped channel. This would be yet another indication that the fuel tank cavity was designed and intended to get wet. Maybe not a great deign, but I do not think there was ever any illusion this cavity would remain dry.

What is different on this Guardian in contrast to the earlier 22s is the lack of the Port "trough" that ran to the stern parallel to the fuel tank cavity. Again, my 1986 Outrage 22 parts diagram clearly shows the hull being molded with this unused Port side trough.

kingfish posted 01-26-2004 08:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
JimH-

Jason's photos don't clearly show it but there is a small removable deck panel over the base of the "T" that extends underneath the port gunwale and the removable side panel, just like the one on the starboard side that is shown uncovered opposite. The side panels normally have to be removed before the deck panels can be removed.

So what you've got is access to a rigging channel where cables, etc. that need to get from behind the port gunwale side panel to the console can be run. I didn't pay attention closely enough to Jasons removed floor deck, but I presume that like the deck of my Outrage 22, there are two collared openings in his deck under the console, one over the rigging channel on each side. I run cables, lines, etc. under both my gunwales from the stern area and in the legs of my arch, all of which utilize these channels on both port and starboard sides to get from behind the gunwale side panels, under the deck, and into the console.

JayR posted 01-26-2004 01:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
The floor as it came out was very flimsy. It took two people to remove it and a third would have been better. It would not have taken much to crack or even break it in two.

The floor consisted of a total of 3/4" of plywood in 8' by 2+' pieces. The seams were not allowed to overlap. The floor was sprayed with a chop gun mix and the plywood set in place. Any gaps (there were many) were filled with resin. Several air gaps were found as well. The wood was cut so that placement did not have to be too exact. Very sloppy. The first layer was 1/4" or 3/8" thick. Once it was in place, the chop gun was utilized again to seal and provide adhesion for the second layer. The second layer 3/8" or 1/2" (difficult to be certain as it was wet and swollen) was place upon the first without allowing the seams to overlap and then the whole thing was once again sprayed with a chop gun mixture. This was not done in a careful manner and due to this failure, plywood was left exposed in areas.

Water is no doubt expected to enter the tank cavity and exit into the bilge. Although the foam surrounding the tank maintained its' seal to the hull and tank, the foam managed to absorb water. I will suggest that the foam around the tank is not closed cell or it has broken down over the years. Unlike the foam test block Tom Clark is monitoring, this stuff allowed for evaporation. I determined through several test holes into it that it was completely saturated. Several days protected by a tarp with the floor removed, was all that was needed to dry it out COMPLETELY. I drilled several more 2" holes into the foam in several more spots to verify this. Go figure...

The tank suffered no ill effects from this water logged foam as the aluminum is still shiny and new looking. It still needs to be pressure tested.... just to be certain.

It is my belief that the repeated exposure to the water passing through the cavity would not have been an issue had the underside of the floor been sealed with care.

Considering the poor condition of the fuel hoses and the possible danger it represents, it would behoove you all pull the floor and expect the cavity. In particular, inspect the underside of the floor for exposed plywood and seal it now. What was the old saying about a "stitch in time"?


JayR posted 01-26-2004 01:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Sorry, I forgot to answer this one....
Type of plywood?

Looked to be an exterior grade plywood of minimal quality.

I say this due to the fact I found many large gaps withing the substrates of wood. One in particular was as large a a small dinner plate. 8" in diameter.

lhg posted 01-26-2004 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
The drawing I have of the 18 Outrage tank cover clearly indicates two thicknesses of plywood. First, the 1/4" layer, then a second 1/2" layer. I would assume the other size boats have the same detail for the tank cover.

I would also agree that some of the tank covers may not have had excellent quality control in the manufacturing process. On my 18 Outrage, the cover is still perfect after 16 years. On my 25, I know there is delamination and warping under the cover, in the vicinity of the starboard side access panel. It is raised up about 1/2". But so far, I am unable to deal with the job of removing/repairing! Seeing this article didn't help! For what it's worth, my 18 was made in Massachusetts, my 25 in Edgewater.

Considering this Guardian spent it's life in sub tropical Flamingo FL (I assume), and that the gas tank itself, at least FROM THE EXTERIOR, in in good shape considering the way the rest of the cavity looks, indicates that the leak problems in tanks come from WITHIN. This has been discussed many times here, with phase separation resulting from alcohol & condensation being the corrosion culprit causing tanks to leak. This also tends to be a colder climate situation, where condensation is produced easily, with longer (2 mo minimum) periods of motionless storage. Unless your boat is stored in a building heated to 65 degree temps or better during the winter, keep the tank filled to the brim, with MDR waterzorb added.

I was also happy to hear that the tank cavity foam dried out quickly once the cover was lifted. This tends to confirm that opening the floor access covers during storage, or while under a cover in sunlight, keeps things dried out.

WHALER27CC posted 01-26-2004 06:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for WHALER27CC  Send Email to WHALER27CC     
Let me chime in here again, with a serious question . If anbody from this thread can answer this for me...Why not replace the old plywood with a composite board of some type, one that wont rot or deteriorate?? I know that some materials such as King Starboard cant be epoxyed, but isnt there something other than plywood that can be used to make it problem free for good????
Peter
JayR posted 01-26-2004 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
It was discussed but nothing could be identified that was conducive to the application.
John W posted 01-26-2004 09:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for John W  Send Email to John W     
Jason,

Great job! It looks like you've done a first class job for sure, thanks for sharing these pic's. (And, as a side, thanks for the e-mail pic's of your 21 Outrage as well).

Peter, I wouldn't be worried about using plywood in a reconstruction like this if it is sealed with glass & epoxy resin instead of polyester resin. Epoxy adheres so much better to wood & is a much better water barrier...I'll bet Jason's job will last far longer than BW's original deck did.

Jason, I would be VERY CAREFUL about checking that tank. In restoring an old Aquasport we pulled a tank that after cleaning looked almost new, but careful examination showed small pitting wherever this tank was touching foam. On this boat's tank installation, most of the tank's bottom was exposed to air & was fine, but the sides were foamed. The pitting on the sides had badly weakenned the tank, to the point that a professional pressure test caused a leak in one spot. I would be VERY suspicious of a 16 year old tank left in contact with all that waterlogged foam.

lhg, I've got to disagree with you on tanks not corroding from the outside. Counting the one above I've replaced 2 corroded aluminum tanks & seen several others, and each one I've seen has been corroded from the outside as a direct result of contact with foam. In the case of the tank I mentioned above the foam wasn't waterlogged, but contraction & expansion of the tank caused a very small (really almost undetectible) space between the foam & the tank. Condensation then corroded the tank. I'm sure water in the fuel could do the same thing & is something else to guard against, but my experience makes me very uncomfortable with foamed in aluminum tanks. I'm a big believer in David Pascoe's method of tank installation www.yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm

I've gotten on this rant before, so before I beat a dead horse a second time, I'll shut up now...

Anyway, great job on the deck rebuild!

John

Knockerjoe posted 01-27-2004 09:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Knockerjoe  Send Email to Knockerjoe     
Thanks Jason for taking time to make the pics. I am also wodering if anyone has fabricated a new cover. I am thinking a 3/4" sheet of non-skid king staboard might do the job or maybe some other type of composite sheeting?
JayR posted 01-27-2004 12:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
John, thanks for that info.

In this particular instance, I am not too concerned as the tank is very clean. The photos might lead one to believe it is corroded due to the filth upon it. However, the tank is shiny new on the sides where the foam was present.

Also, this is a Guardian hull and the tank is of a much more substantial design than other tanks I have seen. I have stood upon it many times and it supports my weight without even flexing. And, I weigh in excess of 225 pounds. I suspect the gage used on the commercial hulled boats tanks to be significantly thicker.

It actually looks almost new, now that the exterior has been cleaned. So nice in fact, I am tempted to put the floor back on without testing it. I would be remiss to do so.... The thought of identifying a leak after re-assembly knowing I had a chance would kill me.

JayR posted 01-27-2004 04:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
For those of you who wondered what the underside looked like when 1st removed... http://members.cox.net/jasonricher/whatamess.JPG

This was before it was touched at all.

Nasty huh?

What's your look like? :-)

bradenton_whaler posted 01-27-2004 06:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for bradenton_whaler  Send Email to bradenton_whaler     
Jason,

I feel your pain. I've been there done that. I have a 1981 25 OR that I am in the midst of. I had to recore the two deck plates. I used exterior plywood. I also had tons of air pockets where BW did not do a good job in building them in the first place. My decks are done, and I'm in the process of having my two new 70 gal alumn tanks built.

My question.....

I have decided not to foam the new tanks in. Rather, my tank builder uses cypress planks to wedge them in and hold them. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to place a pump or something that will keep the water away from these new $1K tanks! I do not want to have to do this repair anytime soon. Please respond soon, my tanks will be ready next week for install.

Bradenton Whaler

bradenton_whaler posted 01-27-2004 06:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for bradenton_whaler  Send Email to bradenton_whaler     
I think I see my answer on another posting... nobody knows! This makes me nervous with this type of reinvestment.

Is the new foams really that much better than the foams used in the 1980s? What is different?

JayR posted 01-27-2004 07:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
I have a great answer for you. Just can't recall who it was that sent the info and pics to me was.

In any case, I will dig up the photos for you and email them.

In short, it is a hand pump that makes use of the hatches and is quite ingenious.

I can not adequately describe it for you. As they say, a picture says a 1000 words.

Email will be sent shortly...

JayR posted 01-27-2004 07:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Credit goes to Greg.... can't recall his sign on here but he definitely deserves a pat on the back for his pump out idea...
jimh posted 01-27-2004 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Rather than keep everyone in the dark, just send me the information on the pump and the pictures; it can be appended to the article.

--jimh

JayR posted 01-27-2004 10:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
I forwarded it to you Jim.
Chap posted 01-28-2004 12:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chap  Send Email to Chap     
Hello,

JayR, well done, thank you.
Quick question or two.
Do I see right angle metal on the underside of the panel where the console would attach?
It appears it might be in a recessed or raised area?
Were the downward tabs connected to the hull in some way?
Maybe a Guardian reinforcement that could be duplicated on a Recreational hull.

Thanks again.
Chap

Sammy posted 01-28-2004 08:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sammy  Send Email to Sammy     
To answer Whaler27CC's question - 3M makes an adhesive specifically for use with Starboard. It's sold under the name of Scotch-Weld DP 8005 - an "acrylic structural plastic adheasive", that's further described as a "polyolefin bonder with a three minute worklife".

The company that sold me the Starboard said it was what Starboard's manufacturer recommended for bonding.

I remeber thinking it was very pricey stuff when I bought it, but I can't recall the exact cost. All things considered, it seems that Jason's approach would be much more cost effective - and probably as application effective given the quality of work that Jason is doing on this project.

Tom W Clark posted 01-28-2004 10:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Peter,

I suppose there are several reasons why a composite is not used in lieu of plywood. Chief among them is cost, weight and strength.

Plywood (and wood) is amazing stuff. Strong, lightweight, versatile and relatively inexpensive.

There are different types of composites. Starboard would be a very poor choice. It is expensive and not at all strong for this purpose. It presents an adhesion problem as well as being very expensive.

A phenolic resin composite like Rainier Richlite's Whaleboard or Whalelite are much better candidates for this application. They are stiff as hell and hard enough to accept a tap-cut machine thread. They are also an OEM component of newer Boston Whalers. But it still is inferior to good old plywood in terms of weight and cost.

A 3/4" thick sheet of Richlite (the version used for kitchen countertops) is remarkably heavy, weighing over 150 pounds for a 3/4" thick 4' x 8' sheet. It is also quite expensive. How expensive you ask? At the time they stopped selling it by the sheet, it cost almost $1000 for 4' x 8' sheet! In contrast, my lumber yard price for 3/4" Marine AB plywood (probably better than what Whaler used) is about $63 per sheet.

As an aside: Richlite is now only sold as a fabricated and installed package for kitchen countertops. They stopped selling the sheet goods in July. I was going to use it for my kitchen. Seemed appropriate that I should effectively have Whaleboard in my home. Oh well, back to concrete.

http://www.richlite.com/

WHALER27CC posted 01-30-2004 09:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for WHALER27CC  Send Email to WHALER27CC     
Tom/Sammy-
Thanks for addressing the composite issue. I guess I was thinking it would be less expensive AND lighter, but after reading your posts, it would appear I was wrong. I am wondering though, Tom, you referred to Richlite as Whaler oem product, is that what they are currently using in decks, gunnels, etc?? If so , would that explain the increased weight in the newer Whalers??
Peter
Knockerjoe posted 02-01-2004 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Knockerjoe  Send Email to Knockerjoe     
Tom, I disagree with your comment on Starboard being a poor choice for the tank cover. Here are the specs http://www.kingstarboard.com/starboardxl.pdf
You mention weight:
Starboard 3/4" sheet 4x8' : 109lbs a sheet.
Plywood 3/4" 4x8': 56lbs (without resin and fiberglass)
You mention price as above:
Plywood: $63 plus fiberglass and manpower?
Starboard: Approx $300 for a sheet.
You mention stength:
I could beat a piece of 3/4" Starboard all day long with a baseball bat and you would not know the difference.
The only negative I see is color match and keeping the cover original.
I have worked alot with Starboard and think it is superior over fiberglass in many applications.
I have a question for Jay? What did you do with the wood under the cover where the cover screws go into on the rim? Many of my screws have striped and was wondering what you did?
Tom W Clark posted 02-01-2004 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Peter,

Whaler uses Whaleboard and Whalelite in the boats they build now as backing for hardware. On the wood locating diagrams you will see reference to "PHENOLIC" or "PHENOL.". This is Whaleboard.

In the big picture the Whaleboard backing does not amount to a significant percentage of the hull's weight, so no, I do not think Whaleboard is part of why newer Whalers are heavier.

Joe,

Plywood vs. Starboard?! No contest; plywood wins hands down in this application.

Half the weight.
One fifth the price.
Vastly superior bonding to fiberglass.
Far greater availability.

JayR posted 02-01-2004 09:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
For the stripped screw holes, I am filling them with resin and will re-drill them after the floor is in place.
JayR posted 02-08-2004 07:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
For those of you that had questions about the foams ability to dry out, I'm going to have another chance to document it.

After taking every precaution to protect the boat from the weather, I am sorry to report that the boat was left open to the weather and it is full of water/ice.... grrrrrr!!!!

Having just put my property on the market, my best friend suggested that I move out the motorhome and 3 Whalers in the back yard in an effort to make my 1/3 acre lot not look so cramped. So, we did just that. The motorhome went to my sisters house. (Shift cable seized on the way) The Madetauk to his cottage on the lake. the 1971 Outrage to my neighbors and the "in process" Guardian to his X's house.

It rained/snowed that same night and he failed to re-cover her. To make matters worse, the tarp that was protecting her was left in the back of the boat to block most of the rain water from exit. We now have a foot of water in the boat and it is covered with 2" of ice. His comment.... " ah, no big deal"!!!!!

So, I have no doubt the foam will once again be saturated. This time, I'll photograph everything and document the drying out process.

No fun for sure!!!!

On a better note, my house sold the first day on the market for $5K over the asking price. There is a bright side to everything.

kamie posted 02-08-2004 10:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for kamie  Send Email to kamie     
jay,

Sounds like my new 18. On the way down to the marina there was 6"+ of water in the stern. So much that the teak cover for the hoses was floating around. The drains were filled with ice and since the temp hasn't topped 40, my guess is they still are. Skating anyone :-)

congrats on the house sale.

whaler22 posted 02-12-2004 12:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for whaler22  Send Email to whaler22     
Way to go Jason!! I admire your bravery and ability to weather the cold. I redid my fuel tank on the Revenge(cetacea 70) in the winter also. I had plenty of ice in the center section and the troughs when I first removed the tank cover. AHH the momories, frustrations, pains, and the LOVE. Keep'em afloat forever.

David

JayR posted 03-14-2004 03:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Unfortunately, I have had a set-back with my disc injuries and it looks like this floor will be sitting for a while longer. The weather is warming but I cannot even think of touching it in the pain I am currently in. The Vicodins only work to a point.

Everything is cut and awaiting installation. Kills me seeing it sit there like that.... All I need to do, is set the last few pieces of plywood in place and coat the whole thing with epoxy.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that another lamenectomy is not necessary and that I can return to working on it. It was good therapy while it lasted.... A few minutes work here and there kept me moving and in good spirits.

A question was asked above regarding the s/s angle on the underside. It was attached to the sides of the forward fish locker, directly under the console. It would appear the extra support was not necessary as most of the screws were missing and no ill effects were noted. The floor did not flex in this area in the absence of the screws.

I'll keep you posted of any further developments.

jimh posted 07-27-2004 10:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Please use this message thread exclusively for questions related to the material in the Reference Section article. I have deleted some recent additions that began an entirely new line of discussion.
treybacon posted 11-25-2005 11:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for treybacon  Send Email to treybacon     
To all who have reported rot on the underside plywood decks...Does Whaler offer a replacement deck already complete? If so could someone provide the Guardian or Whaler line part number. I have an 88' Outrage 18 that appears to be flawless. However, the two articles about this cavity have peaked my interest about my boats inner deck lid, tank foam and fuel lines as I do get splash back during fuel up.
I believe one area not discussed in depth was the amount of time the boat spent in water vs on trailer vs indoor/outdoor storage and whether the sump drain is plugged during use or left open. Also as some commented the owners manual does suggest leaving the inspection covers open during storage to allow evaporation. Looking forward to comments to prolong the life of my Whaler for my children in the future.
Buckda posted 11-28-2005 10:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
There is no replacement part readily available from Whaler.

You can go to Brunswick Commercial and Government Products and get a similar deck (same sizes, not sure about cutouts) for the 18' Outrage from them. Cost in 2003 was 1,300 dollars, and the gelcoat will not match (haze grey instead of desert tan).

It may be possible to "get in line" for when/if they do a run/order for desert tan hulls and get a deck made in that lot. This could take several months or perhaps even a year or more to wait....and you may not need it at all.

The single most important thing you can do to preserve your deck is to back out all of your deck fittings/screws and add caulk/sealant and reinstall.

You should also pull your deck plates, and be sure to caulk around the underside of the deckplate edge where it meets the deck. Replace your deckplates as necessary to ensure they're sealing properly.

If you are already going to pull the deck to inspect/replace your fuel filler line and vent hose, that is a good time to also inspect under the deck for cracks and seal any you find with some kind of sealant/caulk.

Be prepared, the deck is very heavy!

Inspect your deck for improperly sealed holes. Many boats came standard with the twin captains chair seating and later switched to a leaning post or the RPS. There will be a tell-tale ring of holes from the pedestal mounts for the captains chairs if this is the case. Inspect those holes carefully and reseal as necessary.

The problem is that once there is water in the deck core, there is very little opportunity for it to escape, so it rots the core.

As for the water in the fuel tank cavity foam, on the 18' Outrage, there is very little room/foam around the tank as compared to the 22' Outrage.

Personally, I would not worry so much about this on the 18' model. The 18' Outrage has no "tunnel to nowhere" on the port side, and the fuel tank cavity has a gelcoated notch in the aft that allows any water that does get into the tank area to run off.

treybacon posted 12-21-2005 10:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for treybacon  Send Email to treybacon     
Thanks for the insight on my 18 Outrage. The very week after writing this I was forced to inspect my floor condition due to a strong fuel smell during an inshore fishing trip with a fellow Whaler friend. I found a solid floor under all inspection plates(great access to all hose fittings!!) but suspect the culprit to be the filler hose due to the condition & sludge built up beneath it in the trough. I plan to clean out all areas I can access and wash out the fuel cavity with degreaser and hot water. Any suggestions on what to use to clean out this cavity that will do the job but not penetrate the foam. I plan to replace all hoses: (filler, vent, and fuel lines) Is this equipment standard grade from a local marine store or are you aware of a good online resource for these parts? Final comment: I plan to drain the cavity via the molded hole at rear by elevating the bow with an overhead lift and plan to leave the inspection plates off while garaged until dry. Thanks again for your help.
Trey
Bulldog posted 12-21-2005 01:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Trey, I pulled my floor out of my Revenge, not as much work as on an Outrage. I scrubbed the foam and tank area with dishwashing liquid and it all came out pretty good. If you have the time and you really want to be sure of what is going on with your boat , pull the floor clean everything up , install new hoses, and recaulk it well when putting it down! Sue at Twin Cities Marine can set you up with caulk that matches the desert tan perfectly. There is a link in my profile to my boat , with pictures of the open floor area, my floor was in great shape and even had a packing slip on it yet, and the weight wasn't too bad, I pulled the floor out and put it next to the boat in about 45 minutes by myself, if the floor is heavy, it's wet!......Jack
Buckda posted 12-21-2005 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
I used a solution of simple green and water, and then used a scrub brush and a spoon (for the really tough grime in the rigging tunnel). I'm not done, but Old Man Winter came and locked us down with 21 straight days of below freezing temperatures here, so I'm not going to get to finish it until we get a thaw.

You can buy the hoses at West Marine or your local boat supply place. The fuel filler hose is available from any NAPA or similar auto parts store, and is probably less expensive there. Do a search, there is a Goodyear part No. for this hose floating around somewhere that I used when I bought mine this fall.

I recommend you also buy new SS clamps for the hoses "just because". Since you're redoing the hoses, it's a good time to just replace any potential problem areas.

Also - consider how to keep water out of your rigging tunnels in the future while still keeping the holes open for air circulation and for the actual rigging. I'm considering gluing into place a cut down splash guard on the side tunnel entrances, that would be behind the kick panel, but would provide about 2-4 inches of deck protection before water and grime fot down into the tunnel. I think that will help during washdown to ensure that all dirt/grime goes into the sump in the stern, allowing it to more easily be mopped out with a sponge. This will keep the rigging tunnels completely dry. Overkill? Yeah - as far as protecting the deck is concerned, but I think it is an easy and nice "upgrade" for keeping the whole boat clean....

Dave

JayR posted 12-21-2005 08:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Update on the repair job...
I am ashamed to report, the hull is still sitting with the repaired floor awaiting re-installation.

Other matters in life took precedence and I have been unable to complete it up to this point.

On a better note, my new garage and woodworking shop will have a new heating system up an running in a few days and this 20' Guardian will be coming inside to be completed.

I'll update you all on its progress as soon as there is something to report.

Thanks for your patience.

Jason

Diver Dan posted 12-23-2005 09:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Diver Dan  Send Email to Diver Dan     
Has anyone thought of the possibility of using Nidacore in lieu of plywood? I replaced the cockpit sole on my 32' Hatteras FBSF ending up with two 1/2" layers. Once epoxied/resined in place, extremely strong and light. My son could not damage an inspection plate cut-out with the claw end of a hammer. Since the cockpit must support 3500-5000# of divers and gear, an extremely strong and rigid sole was required. Nidacore in this application fit the bill perfectly. Thicknesses range from I believe 1/4" to over 6". Since it is a polyvinyl honeycomb structure scrimmed on both sides, it take West Expoxy or resin very well without the inherent weight of plywood and or any chance of absorbing water. Just a thought.
jross036 posted 01-21-2006 05:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for jross036  Send Email to jross036     
Just peeled [chisled,grinded,etc,] the under deck off a military 19 footer and found 1/4" reddish color 3 ply looks to be marinegrade then the chopped layer then 1/2" lighter color also a good quality[no footballs or voids.] Total of about 13/16". Too bad it had some , not much tho, rot. Also it looks like the sheets were one length 10'. Possibly the under 1/4" one was spliced but the 1/2" piece was 9' for sure.
JayR posted 01-21-2006 06:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Fun huh?
crusty crab posted 02-22-2006 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for crusty crab  Send Email to crusty crab     
Any word on the outcome of this project?

I have a 25' Outrage that will need similar treatment.

Thanks!

jeffs22outrage posted 02-22-2006 05:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
I think Jay is still trying to finish this project up.

I went through the same process and it was not really that bad. It was time consuming more than anything but, it was well worth the effort and time. Some people are heading the route of Buckda and Mike Pape and doing teak floors.

Good luck

My Article
page 1
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html
page2
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore2.html
Finished
http://photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ First%20finished%20outing/


Buckda's and Mike Papes teak floors
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/008511.html
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/009272.html

JayR posted 02-22-2006 06:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Sorry to report, no progress in some time. It has taken a back seat to other more pressing matters. Most of which have been taken care of.

As soon as the Ribbed Outrage I am refurbishing is completed and on it's way to the marina for a new motor installation, I'll get back to it.

I should have some progress to report soon.

JayR posted 02-10-2008 10:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
I don't recall if i sent Jimh the pictures of the boat with the job complete.
The floor is back in place as is the console.
I have yet to fasten the t-top in and plan on doing so when the weather gets warmer.
I believe the hull will be ready for new power as soon as the console is re-wired.

Bumping this one back up to aid another poster with questions regarding the removal of the cover.

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