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  18' Outrage 115 yamaha, underpowered?

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Author Topic:   18' Outrage 115 yamaha, underpowered?
bmacauto posted 05-19-2001 06:03 PM ET (US)   Profile for bmacauto   Send Email to bmacauto  
I'm just about to buy a 18' outrage, it comes with a 1984 115 Yamaha, and looks to be in great condition, i was told runs well. I haven't taken it for a sea trial yet, Is 115hp enough to push this boat at a decent speed? What prop would be recomended for this setup? it comes with a almn prop, in good condition. Thanks
Brian Macauto
Dan posted 05-20-2001 08:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
If I were buying this boat I would value the engine at zero because it's 17 years old. Any usage you get out of it is gravy. Price a new engine with installation and make sure not to overpay for boat. Just my 2 cents. As for overpowering -- after 17 years I don't know how powerful it is -- sea trial is the best way to tell.
bmacauto posted 05-20-2001 10:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for bmacauto  Send Email to bmacauto     
What do you think the approximate value of the boat is? I'm paying 12900, I can't find any damage or imperfections anywhere, and the trailer is a beefy Cox super loader with keel rollers and side roller (in place of bunks). Am I overpaying? Thanks
Easy E posted 05-20-2001 11:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Easy E    
Oh no, you mentioned side rollers, whalers worst paying way to much....that outboard is old.
bmacauto posted 05-20-2001 11:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for bmacauto  Send Email to bmacauto     
The rollers are ok as they only ack like bunks, stop the boat from leaning, all the weight is on the keel, on rollers. How much should i offer for this boat? Thanks,
Dan posted 05-21-2001 08:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
Maybe you should consider having the boat surveyed by a qualified mechanic. A new (larger) motor with quages and installation could cost around 10G. My guess on value is $8,800. The 18' Outrage is one of my favorite boats. Good luck.
Peter posted 05-21-2001 09:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I had the same trailer for my former 18 Outrage. If it is set up properly, all the weight rides on the keel rollers, the roller bunks are just there for lateral support. I believe that in its day, this was a top of the line trailer. If the trailer is in good condition it might be worth up to $1k. The galvanizing on Cox trailers is first rate.

That leaves 11.9k for hull and motor. Usually, the "trade-in" value of an outboard is well under $1k, but I agree with one of the previous posts, I would value the 17 year old motor at 0 for the purposes of this transaction. (Also, fyi, the older Yamahas of that generation had shift shaft corrosion problems which require removal of the power head to replace -- it is an expensive repair.)

So that leaves the hull value at $11.9k. Does the hull come with extras, i.e. with canvas cover, flying top set, electronics, stern bench seat, hydrallic steering?

When repowering, I'd go up to a min of 135hp in a six cylinder configuration. In any case, the 18 is a great boat, hard to come by in good condition. If you can get it for a reasonably decent price, buy it or someone else will, and don't worry about whether you overpay a little because it will bring great satisfaction that is not measurable in $$$. FYI, I sold my 87 18 to the first person who looked at it this spring for just a few bucks short of my asking price! It was in good, turnkey condition.

bmacauto posted 05-21-2001 10:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for bmacauto  Send Email to bmacauto     
The boat is spotless with new canvas covers for the console and bench. No rear bench, comes with lorance x-5 depth/fish?, loran, good VHF. Other then the motor, the boat looks new. Traier is in great condition, cox, super loader. If i pay 12000 for the boat, and assume the motor is worthless, am i overpaying? What does just the hull and trailer go for? I'm thinking this isn't such a good deal afterall if i have to spend big bucks to repower. Thanks
Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2001 10:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
I would say the boat is worth around $10k. You say it's in good condition as is the trailer. If your were to repower with a new motor then you would have a super clean and freshly powered boat which would be worth more than the average used 18 Outrage, so the investment would probably be justified. There is also nothing preventing you from repowering with a used motor that's a few years old and a lot less expensive than a new motor.

As to motor size, if you do repower, get yourself a 150. A 115 would be adequate, but the boat performs so well with a 150 that the vast majority of them out there are set up this way.

As an interesting aside, I had an 18 Outrage with Johnson 150 (90 V6) and it performed superbly. I had a friend with a nearly identical 18 Outrage rigged with a Johnson 140 (4 cylinder). Ten horsepower difference, big deal right? Wrong. It wasn't so much top but the 140 had an annoying habit of either going fast or going slow. It didn't want to cruise in the mid range very well. Ironically, we determined that my boat with the larger engine got better gas mileage than the 140. It just seemed like the 140 had to work harder. Remember, a V6 150 is the smallest V6 and even when pushed hard it is only loafing. The 140 on the other hand was to biggest V4 and was working very hard to produce that power.

Peter posted 05-21-2001 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Try plugging the critical info into to see what that program thinks the hull is worth.
Stamp posted 05-21-2001 11:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Stamp  Send Email to Stamp     
I bought my '87 18 ft Outrage a couple years ago with an old Johnson 150 for $10,100. It was in fairly good shape (not as good as what yours sounds like), and motor gave out last Winter. I repowered with a Honda 130 Four-stroke and never looked back. I considered selling the BW a buying a comparable but could not find something to compare to an Outrage with a new engine, even when adding up the costs. 12K may be a little steep - I'd recommend offering 10K and go from there. I agree - be prepared to repower. But "good as knew" Outrage with a new motor is hard to beat. BTW - I highly recommend 4 stroke: quiet, great gas mileage, very little top-speed loss, and outstanding reliability. I've got all the info if/when you need it.
tbirdsey posted 05-21-2001 08:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for tbirdsey  Send Email to tbirdsey     
I paid 12,500 almost three years ago for my 84 Outrage with 84 150 Merc, but no trailer. The boat was loaded - full canvas like new, in fact, side curtains and rear curtain had never been used. The owner had complete annual service records on the Merc. I still have the motor and every once in a while think about replacing it as it is now 17 years old. But then I remember it starts up first time, every time and runs like a top.

If the hull and trailer are as good as you say and you can get it for $12,000, go for it. Have the engine looked at and if you can confidently get some more time out of it, it's just icing on the cake. Good luck

bmacauto posted 05-22-2001 03:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for bmacauto  Send Email to bmacauto     
On Friday I'm going to check out the engine, but I agree that even if it checks out, I shouldn't rely on it. I'll probably offer 11000 or less. How much can I get an engine for? I assume I can get a good deal on a lightly used one, maybe around 3500? I'd hate to let such a perfect hull slip through my fingers, to get something that's beat up... I'll see on Friday I guess. Thanks for all the suggestions.
maverick posted 05-22-2001 05:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Hi, Brian - Did you get my email on <my> 18 that's FS? I agree with the majority of the other posters here - I paid $10.5 for my 85 18.6 about 4 yrs ago, had orig 85 Yammy 150, good engine but salty. Ran great, used it 2 years, sold motor and all and repowered and refitted everything new. New Johnson 150 Ocean Runner set me back ~$8400. BUT a GREAT setup. Put your money where it counts most - in the motor. A good, solid hull will outlast most of us! I'd offer less than $10k for what you described and hope you can get some use out of it until repower time. And yes, the 18 is an awesome boat. Best, Mav
bmacauto posted 05-24-2001 01:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for bmacauto  Send Email to bmacauto     
Yes, thanks for your email, everyone's help on this is great; buying a boat takes a lot of consideration. I'm concerned that they won't accept less then 12900 as they said they were firm, and they had other offers but not what they wanted. I'll show them blue book values (thanks for that link ) and see what happens. Let everyone know what happens on Friday.
Dan posted 05-24-2001 08:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
Don't worry about what the seller will accept. Don't worry about "other" offers. Money talks. Consider this tack: "I've got $10,175 available, today..." As the season progresses the seller should be more motivated. Offering an odd amount like --175 discourages counter offers in 500 or 1000 increments. Statements, like I know it's a great boat and I'd love to offer you more but ... (insert reason). My thoughts - you're spending real money -- it's not like you're dropping 3 grand and could walk away. Everyone agrees you'll have to replace the motor in the near future at a cost of about 10G. Let's say you get the boat for 11G, add motor 10G and you're in it for 21G, plus the aggravation and lay up time of having new motor installed. Would the end product be worth 21G on the open market? What other boat could you get for 21G? What financing options would be available? Just my two-cents. I know the 18 classic Outrage is a fantastic boat. Good luck.
lhg posted 05-24-2001 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
From the perspective of having bought an Outrage 18 new in 1986 (which I still have), seeing all this talk about finding one for 10-15000, in 2001 money, sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

With twin engines, and super rigged with many Whaler extras, instuments, electronics, Mills full canvas, trailer, etc, mine cost $26,000 in 1986 Dollars!

bmacauto posted 05-25-2001 04:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for bmacauto  Send Email to bmacauto     
Well, we bought it, had to pay full price though. We went out for a ride and the engine seemed fine, no excess smoke, or rough idle, moved the boat well. I understand that it could still blow up on me, but we took the chance because the hull was is such good condition. I guess it will allow me to save for a new 150hp... Improving the boat is just as much fun as having it. Thanks for all the help. I'll post some pictures if you like.
tbirdsey posted 05-26-2001 05:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for tbirdsey  Send Email to tbirdsey     
Congratulations! I'm sure you won't regret paying "full price" - I haven't thought about it another minute after buying mine. Some will say I'm living on borrowed time with the 84 Merc and I will admit that I am considering a nice new, shiny, BLACK replacement - quieter, more fuel efficient, etc. However, I've gotten years of enjoyment and no headaches from an engine that most would say was worth nothing. Take care of the engine and it will take care of you. If and when you decide to go for a new engine, you may want to consider a little more power depending on your usage.

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