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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
repower for '89 27' Center Console Cuddy
|Author||Topic: repower for '89 27' Center Console Cuddy|
posted 05-11-2003 10:14 PM ET (US)
Currently have 2x 300hp Johnsons - can't take the fuel costs and smoke anymore - what's a good alternative?
posted 05-11-2003 10:25 PM ET (US)
Sorry, I managed to click 'submit' right after my first line - I'll try again.
I've got an '89 27' Center Console Cuddy with twin 300hp V8 Johnsons, 600 total hours, about 250 since a rebuild (former owner). I love the power, the smooth ride, etc., but the fuel costs are a killer. I'm also unhappy with the clouds of smoke at startup, especially if it's chilly, or it's been a week or so since my last start. Finally, folks behind me in the canal always complain about my thick exhaust trail.
I'd like your help with a couple of items:
approximate value of the 300's, if I could find a buyer?
Advice on good re-power alternatives - I want what everyone wants - 300HP at 25HP price and 9.9HP fuel consumption. Given that this seems unlikely, I'll probably have to settle for used 225's of some sort. FICHT and Optimax seem to have a solid reputation for trouble. HPDI a little better, but hardly trouble-free. Yamaha EFI's? Honda's?
I'm thinking that a pair of low-hour, three-year old EFI's that someone's taking off to replace with four-strokes or one of the other new-fangled motors makes the most sense. Your thoughts?
posted 05-12-2003 05:11 PM ET (US)
I would suggest you look into the Mercury 250 efi. I have good things about their reliability and raw power. I am not sure how low their emmissions are, but I am sure it is far better than what you have now. My brother used to have a 27 cuddy with OMC 3 liter sea-drives. He had the same problems you complain of and he eventually sold the whaler because of it. The big fichts may also be nice, but used ones would be tough to find.
posted 05-12-2003 05:40 PM ET (US)
Yamaha F225 4 strokers or the 250 HPDI would be the motors of choice.
posted 05-12-2003 06:40 PM ET (US)
If you buy a set of older new motors with low hours like yamaha or merc efi 250, you will have more than what you bargain for. The problem is switching from the omcs to the new controls guages and all the bells and whistles because most likely they will not come with the motors. That stuff new gets very expensive. My advise would be to look around on the internet and get a set of 2001 Johnson 250 v6 carbs brand new. You can get them for around the $20,000 for the set and they will line right up for everything. Also I may be interested in the v8s when you find out what you are going to do.
posted 05-12-2003 07:00 PM ET (US)
First of all, you don't have as much power with those old V-8's as you think. Any good Mercury, Yamaha or OMC V-6 will outrun them, even at the 225HP ratings. That's why they took them off the market, as V-6 designs improved.
I understand BW has a pair of used 2003 Mercury 250 EFI's for sale, originally installed on a 320 Outrage. If you can afford to buy new, the new 250 Optimax's are supposedly real strong engines, faster and more fuel efficient than the 250 EFI's.
Whatever brand you get, if you buy used try to find EFI's, 225 or 250.
posted 05-12-2003 09:02 PM ET (US)
I was in a similiar situation with my motors.(Twin 1989 Johnson vro 150's)I was looking to repower too. My motors smoke also at start up. I don't mind the smell and it usually dissapates in a minute...The new vro pumps have improved the oil dispensed and can eliminate some of the smoke...I decided to keep mine for several reasons. They only had about 650hrs, They weren't worth much in the used market, and the cost of new power, $20,000 was abit high.(I also rebuilt my starboard motor) So, my feeling was to use them for the next 4-5 years while they(suzuki,Yamaha,Honda) improve the 4-stroke technology and repower then...
Can you justify to yourself spending $15-$25k on semi-new motors to save a few bucks at the pump? Just a thought...Good Luck in your decision, Homey.
posted 05-13-2003 12:04 AM ET (US)
As lhg suggests, I'd stick with EFI engines. They'll be thousands cheaper (especially since you're buying two), have proven track records, and are more available on the used market. You may even be able to find a pair of new ones at bargain prices, as the DFI and four-strokes are being promoted heavily for environmental reasons.
I saw the very first Whaler Drive 27 in New Smyrna Beach with the man himself, Bob Dougherty at the wheel in the early 1980's. The boat was the cuddy cabin model with twin 225 Johnson's. After a quick tour, my father and I watched him put the boat through it's paces. His boat-handling skill was impressive, to say the least.
Bob indicated that, lightly loaded, twin 175's were the minimum he'd recommend for the 27. Considering the fact that few boats can fit the industry's definition of "lightly loaded" when they are provisioned, I'd consider twin 225's.
posted 05-14-2003 05:43 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the input, all.
Your thought parallel mine - EFI 225's are the way to go, if I can find a reasonably priced set with all the riggin's.
lhg - do you have info on the BW Merc 250's? Contact info, price, etc?
I've also spent a lot of time on the question of whether $15K+ on new motors really makes sense, no matter how much fuel they suck.
Is there any hope for reducing my smoke trail? It would make life w/ the 300's considerably more palatable.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really seem like there's a great solution - new costs waaaay too much for this boat, used costs a lot for a moderate improvement, and I'm not really happy with just leaving things as they are.
Hrrrmph. Maybe I'll just install a bank of 12v fans on the transom to dissapate the smoke.
posted 05-14-2003 07:09 PM ET (US)
I read the other day (don't remember where though...sorry) that Yamaha is coming out with a 300hp 4-stroke in 2004 (as well as a 150hp 4-stroke)! I imagine that they will be expensive but how cool would it be to have THESE on your boat?!?!?
posted 05-14-2003 07:12 PM ET (US)
I feel like an idiot! It was posted on THIS site!!!(read "Yamaha Motor Announcement" in the Performance forum) The 300 HP are going to be HPDI's, not 4-strokes...bummer!
posted 05-16-2003 10:25 PM ET (US)
Deanster- another choice is to buy the two 250 hp 2003 Yamaha HPDI's that are on ebay right now. Only 12 hrs left! They are now at $8,100 with no reserve. There is a risk here but at least you will be working on new model engines. Good luck.
posted 05-17-2003 07:05 PM ET (US)
Hmmmm... thanks for the suggestion - its actually tempting, given the new cost of those motors. Hard to imagine you wouldn't come out way ahead, even after a total rebuild and replacement of key parts.
However, I think I'll pass on the saltwater-ingested-siezed-HPDI's-from-an-unknown-source.
Final sale was at $14K - someone either got an amazing deal, or not....
Here's the link for anyone interested
posted 05-18-2003 10:06 PM ET (US)
I think you should get more hours out of those v8's.(600 total hours isn't much) Yeah, you'll pay more at the pump and they'll smoke abit. So what, if the people in the canal have a cow because of some smoke. If they don't like it, ask them to start a fundraiser to buy you new power...Run those motors a few more years, then get Yamaha 250 hpdi's. As the 4-strokes become more popular, the hpdi's may come down in price abit...Bombardier may have some really nice 250 Johnny's for that ride...Good luck!
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