Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
170 MONTAUK: Through-Bolting Auxiliary Engine
|Author||Topic: 170 MONTAUK: Through-Bolting Auxiliary Engine|
posted 11-06-2004 08:25 AM ET (US)
I am interested in mounting a aux motor bracket on the transom of a new Montauk 170. I know there is wood in place embedded in the trasom for that purpose. The engine I plan on using will be in the 5-6 hp range and probably not weigh more than 60 lbs.
My question is should I though bolt the bracket or will SS lag bolts do the job. It looks like I could thru bolt the top of the bracket but the bottom bolts are another question.
Anyone out there done this on the new Montauks and could share that info/pics with me that would be very helpful. Thanks.
posted 11-06-2004 11:37 AM ET (US)
I think it prudent to through-bolt if possible. What does Boston Whaler Customer Service say about this? Talk to Chuck Bennett for advice on a new boat installation.
posted 11-06-2004 11:42 AM ET (US)
[Moved from another forum. The POST-CLASSIC forum is intended to help concentrate information on recently designed models.]
posted 11-06-2004 11:40 PM ET (US)
My BW dealer quoted me $2200. Through-bolt bracket, Mercury 6 hp kicker. No console steering control and no console throttle.
I'm going to get it done before next summer. I'm also hoping Mercury comes out with improved kickers in early 2005.
posted 11-07-2004 03:12 AM ET (US)
I was just wondering what you would use the kicker for on the Montauk. Different areas and different fishing styles intrigue me. Enjoy.
posted 11-07-2004 08:27 AM ET (US)
I want to be able to use the Montauk on some fresh water lakes/reservoirs that have 20 hp max engine size. I figure a 5-6 hp will at least move me along at displacement speed.
posted 11-07-2004 09:04 AM ET (US)
I once came all the way home from Santa Barbara Island to Los Angeles Harbor (40 miles) on my kicker when my Yamaha main engine spun a rod bearing. It was a long run at 4.5 knotts but in the wee hours of the morning we arrived safe and sound.
posted 11-07-2004 10:17 AM ET (US)
Through-bolting the bottom part of the bracket for an aux motor/engine on the 170 Montauk is impossible IMO. At least without cutting any holes in the aft steps. Depending on the position of the holes in the bracket you use it may even be difficult to through-bolt the top bolts.
If I remember well, forum member "Aquanut" was working on a solution for through-bolting a bracket on a 170 Montauk at his work. Maybe he could jump in here and tell us how he got around this problem.
posted 11-07-2004 08:17 PM ET (US)
I am also interested in mounting an aux kicker on my '04 Montauk. An adjustable bracket would put it a little too far out of reach for me when I have my trolling board on. If the kicker could be mounted directly on the transom somehow, it would be a nice clean rig job. I had also considered a hydraulic trim/tilt mount and buy a remote Merc. Any ideas about bolting directly to the transom would be appreciated here also. I definately have rigging time now, seeing it is supposed to be in the middle 20's tonight in WI.
posted 11-07-2004 08:56 PM ET (US)
Forget about the knuckle busting adjustable brackets. They are the worst thing anyone could put on their boat in my opinion... (unless there is no other choice)
I suggest a solid mount. something like Tanner Manufacturing.
The solid brackets mount up higher on the transom and may give you enough room to thru bolt all the bolts thru the transom and clear the quarter step on the newer Montauk 170's.
Someone with a newer Montauk 170 should call Tanner and see if they have one specifically for this boat. If not, are they going to make one? If they are'nt, maybe someone could modify a Tanner or come up with something that will work.
posted 11-07-2004 10:01 PM ET (US)
I contacted the Tanner Co. several months ago, and the person I talked to was "pretty sure they had one for the '04 Montauk. They also were pretty sure it was around $480.00 to $500.00". Maybe the Tanner Co. has more "accurate" information available at this time vs. several months ago. Just my experiences.
posted 11-09-2004 08:55 AM ET (US)
Okay, in the past months I installed a Honda 8 horse motor on the transom of a 2004 montauk.....with out a bracket..I will have to dig out the pics...basically, I cut the rub rail, cut fiberglass...installed a piece of solid wood in the void....reglassed...re gelcoated....and it came out quite nice.,,
posted 11-09-2004 02:37 PM ET (US)
Some pics would be helpful. If the engine bracket could have been adjusted open some more would you have just clamped the bracket to the transom with maybe something to protect the transom?
posted 11-09-2004 03:01 PM ET (US)
Haven't heard from you in awhile. Good to hear from you...
In the past, several people have removed the clamping part of the engine mount due to the fact that it would not open up wide enough to go over the transom as you mention.
If the clamps are removed, and then the engine is bolted on, would you still have to cut the fiberglass? I would assume you would still have to cut the rub rail as it is very thick to begin with..
On an Outrage 18, you cannot move the kicker over far enough to the side (some model engines) because the transom gets wider and the clamps do not open up wide enough unless you remove one of the clamps. You still could use one of the clamps and also through bolt the engine on an Outrage 18. (again, with some model engines)... Not sure about the Montauk 170 models.
posted 11-09-2004 03:55 PM ET (US)
What side is the factory kicker plate? On Sunday I saw what I deemed to be an unsatisfactory kicker mount on a 2004/2005 Montauk 170. The gentleman had a dealer installed Garlick (sp?) mounted on the port side of the transom, the top two bolts were through bolted and the bottom bolts/screws were not visible. I haven't seen the wood locating diagram for this year but was assuming that the kicker plate was on the starboard side.
posted 11-18-2004 08:30 PM ET (US)
I talked to Tanner Manufacturing today and the box mount they make is approx. 6 by 14 inches long. This would put my motor almost out of reach for me. Also, the reach would make tilting and shifting the motor harder to accomplish in rough waters. They told me the price is $498.00. I also talked to Marinetech "Panther" marine bracket manufacturing. They told me the following would work on a Montauk. They have a power (electric over hydraulic) and a stationary manual model They also have the "plate" which can be used for making your own bracket like Dick did, which has ben mentioned here previously. The Panther aux power tilt and the manual stationary model have the same dimensions. The plate size is 10.5" wide and 11.0" high.The hole locations are 8.5" on center in all directions. The price on the power tilt model 35 is $575.00 and the price on the 0435 manual lift is $279.00. The mounting plate 55-0405 is $139.00. There is another brand, the CMC power lift goes for $409.00 would be an option too. I also found time today to make a few calls searching locally for the best price on a 6 hp. Mercury 4 stroke long shaft. I found a dealer about 45 minutes away with an '04 with the price of $1325.00. I put it on hold till Saturday when I am probably going to pick it up. It weighs 57 Lbs. Just a follow-up for anyone who was interested in different options for mounts for a Montauk.
posted 11-19-2004 08:20 AM ET (US)
Looking at the pictures of the Kicker motor bracket, I see that the 2 top holes are through-bolted. Are the 2 bottom holes also through-bolted? If so, how were you able to get under the step?
posted 11-19-2004 08:35 AM ET (US)
The bottom is lagged into the hull. The top area is thru bolted but in the bottom you can not clear the step. The power lift and controlls made this set up very nice for the customer.
posted 11-19-2004 08:41 AM ET (US)
Thank you very much, nydealer. The kicker motor setup looks very nice.
posted 11-19-2004 11:04 AM ET (US)
I have a question for you about performance running the 60 Merc Bigfoot. I am interested in this exact setup so I can keep the weight below the 410 max that whaler recommends. Some other folks have said that using the 60 would not be that great for performance but I am not interested in top end speed just wnat to be able to get up on plane easily and then cruise in the 30 mph range. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Also what brand kicker motor bracket is that, it was kind of hard to read on the photo.
posted 11-19-2004 02:33 PM ET (US)
60HP BigFoot w/13" prop cruise speed range is 20 mph at 4200 rpm to 23-24 mph at 4800 rpm. Wide-open throttle speed is about 30 mph right at 6,000 rpm.
posted 11-19-2004 02:40 PM ET (US)
The engine bracket is a Minn Kota Power Up. If you click on the smaller pictures they will enlarge. Thanks MOE for the performance data.
posted 11-19-2004 03:26 PM ET (US)
You're welcome. This is from Boston Whaler's 170 performance data at http://www.whaler.com/Rec/pdfs/170MontaukEng.pdf , as well as my own experience with the same motor and prop on our 150 Sport, loaded with me and Momma (not lightweights), 60 lbs of cooler, ice and beer in the bow, all the gear we usually carry, Porta-Potti in the stern area, and bimini open.
About the same as what Whaler got on the 170 with only 12 gallons of gas, two guys at 375 lbs, no gear, and no kicker on the transom.
At our summer Whaler owner gathering at Orange Beach, Alabama, we all ran from Pirate's Cove to the no-wake zone at the Perdido Key bridge. Everyone else was running about 31 mph. Barney and his wife (lightweights) and their gear in their 170 resulted in his 170's 90HP four-stroke turning 4500 rpm, 75% cruise, just as the performance charts at Whaler report. We were running WOT 6,000 rpm the whole way (not too far) to keep up with the others.
90HP is what it takes to "cruise" a 170 at 30 mph.
posted 11-21-2004 05:03 PM ET (US)
Here is the latest e-mail I recieved from Tanner Manufaturing Co. regarding their transom fixed mount kicker bracket for the 2004 Montauk.
The bracket we manufacture for the Montauk is our brushed stainless box style transom mounted bracket for $495 plus shipping. You can view the box style bracket on our website at www.radararch.com and scroll down to the Boston Whaler brackets. The bracket measures 8" x 8" with a 13" offset to the inside of the transom pad. On full transoms such as yours without the cutout, this allows for the motor to tilt up without the cowling hitting the transom. The bracket weighs approximately 20 lbs. and uses seven 5/16" bolts to mount (not included).
I also recieved an e-mail from Chuck Bennett at B.W. He had the following to say when I asked him about transom mounting a four stroke 6 hp. kicker on a 2004 Montauk. He replied:
There is wood molded into the transom of your boat to reinforce a thru-bolted bracket for an auxiliary motor.
I don't know the exact bolt pattern that Tanner uses on their brackets(you may want to discuss this with them however), there is plenty of room above the step for most thru-bolts.
As far as transom weight....basically Whaler doesn't recommend exceeding
410lbs on the transom of the Montauk.
Exceeding this weight can cause the boat to porpoise at mid-throttle and increase planing time. The 90 hp Merc. two stroke weighs about 305 lbs. If your boat is still in the water, you might experiment with adding weight
to the transom area to see if it effects the way that you use the boat. Just thought I' pass on the information I got from very experienced people in the industry concerning kicker brackets and the manufacturers viewpoint. Now I have to decide what model I want to mount my Merc. 6 hp. four stroke onto. If the bracket is too short, the cowling will not clear the transom. This is not good if the boat sits in mooring, and you want to get the shaft out of the water to prevent growth from forming on it. If the bracket is too long, the weight and leverage to tilt the motor is working against the operator. The 6 hp. isn't that heavy to tilt, although doing this in uneasy seas, will be a different story. Just another .03 worth
posted 11-22-2004 02:10 PM ET (US)
Thanks for sharing the information. I'm interested in adding the same kicker setup (6hp merc. w/stationary mount). When you decide how to mount the motor please share your experience.
posted 05-04-2005 02:11 PM ET (US)
It seems like a long shaft kicker with an adjustable motor bracket mounted fully upright would work well as seen here.
www.morganmarine.net/Customs/180%20ventura/ventura%20003.jpg and www.morganmarine.net/Customs/180%20ventura/ventura%20002.jpg I was thinking of using the short shaft to utilize the adjustable bracket, but after seeing these photos, I can use it as if it were a fixed mount.
Mounted w/ a long shaft, there wouldn't be a need to lift and lower the adjustable bracket to use the kicker, just tilt down. To get on plane, just tilt the kicker up.
The solid s.s. adjustable brackets, for some reason, are about half or 2/3 the cost of a fixed mount.
posted 05-04-2005 04:39 PM ET (US)
This link was from a few days ago on the same topic. It looks to be one of the cleanest and sturdiest installs using an adjustable bracket: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/teedertodder4u/detail?.dir=/ffc8&.dnm=ec41.jpg&.src=ph
posted 05-04-2005 05:30 PM ET (US)
Never use lag bolts in a marine application. No competent boat builder or engine maker would ever use them for engine mounting applications. Like screws into wood backed glass, they can work loose and fail (withdraw). When engines, and the power (force) they apply to a boat hull are involved, always use through bolting! Does E/J still make their engine brackets with that blind hole feature for lag bolting? I hope not.
And if at all possible, always mount your kicker, through-bolted, directly on the transom for maximum security and safety under adverse conditions.
It seems that with a 4-stroke engine or an Optimax on a 170 Montauk, BW is saying not use a kicker since transom weight will be exceeded.
posted 05-04-2005 06:54 PM ET (US)
Your absolutely right about the opti or 4 stroke. I love my 90 optimax (Apparently the thieves do too)but if I had to repower my 170 I would go 90 E-tec (326 Lbs) so I could more easily add a kicker.
posted 05-06-2005 01:25 AM ET (US)
I had my dealer install my kicker. The bottom starboard side bolt is lag bolted, the rest are through bolted.
My Panther bracket is stainless steel and is rated for up to 20 horsepower and 115 pounds. My kicker is 6 horsepower and 55 pounds.
posted 05-07-2005 04:55 PM ET (US)
Here is a link which is easier to open up. Two weeks to go until I get my kicker Yamaha shipped. Can't wait. The link is http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/teedertodder4u/detail?.dir=/ffc8&.dnm=2ea0.jpg&.src=ph
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.