Tesla Boat Trailer Towing

[jimh]

I happened to be at the boat ramp in Leland, Michigan on a beautiful Fall afternoon on September 23, 2023, when a fellow with a TESLA electric vehicle was loading his 18-foot boat on the ramp.

Fig. 1. A TESLA sedan backed down the ramp to load an 18-foot boat on its trailer.

teslaRampLoading.jpeg (82.37 KiB) Viewed 3190 times

Fig. 2. Close-up view of rear tire showing about one-third of wheel is immersed.

rearTireWet.jpeg (53.66 KiB) Viewed 3189 times

Fig. 3. The TESLA sedan shedding water after hauling out the boat.

teslaRampParking.jpeg (238.08 KiB) Viewed 3190 times

This was my first occasion to see an electric vehicle pulling a boat trailer. The TESLA had no problem yanking the boat out of the water and up the ramp. However, the car was backed in rather deeply on the ramp, and when coming up the ramp a lot of water was draining off the underbody of the car. Since it was pure Lake Michigan freshwater, I don't think there was too much worry about ill-effects on the battery or electric motors, but I would not want to make a habit of getting the rear end of the car in that much water all the time.

I am not enough familiar with the TESLA car line to identify the model. Perhaps a Tesla-fan might recognize which model is shown. The boat is a ROBALO R180. The dry weight with engine is listed at 2,625-lbs. The trailer is aluminum, so perhaps add another 500-lbs, for a total weight around 3,100-lbs. If this is a Model-Y with the towing package, it is rated for 3,500-lbs.

[Masbama]

I’m sure that the vehicle has enough torque to tow that boat but I would worry about having adequate braking power.

[jimh]

introducing the braking power of a vehicle that will be pulling (and trying to stop) a trailer is a very valid consideration. This is generally indicated by the CGWR (Combined Gross Weight Rating) data--when the manufacturer includes that data on the vehicle identification decal.

[frontier]

Full electric vehicles are fine as long as you don't:

• drive in cold weather
• drive in hot weather
• drive up hill
• tow anything
• live on a coastline with salt air
• mind paying twice as much up front
• mind paying high insurance rates
• worry about range anxiety
• mind taxpayers subsidizing your purchase.

[jimh]

My next towing vehicle will be an Electric-Vehicle Truck, possibly a TELSA CYBER TRUCK--if I can get one before I get too old to use it.

A good friend just took delivery of a FORD F-150 LIGHTNING truck, principally for use in managing the rather impressive collection of boats and boat trailers at his place up north.

[Jefecinco]

I suspect a query with Tesla will reveal any salt water towing precautions.

[kladd]

My friend/neighbor recently bought a Rivian truck. Its the fancy pants AWD model with a motor on each wheel resulting in over 800hp. Range is advertised as 300 miles or so. My friend says he loves it and regularly commutes 200 miles between MA and ME.

Then last spring he attempted to tow his ski boat to ME. Total weight increased from 8500lbs to about 12000lbs and rolling resistance, who knows, maybe doubled. Perhaps it should have been no surprise he couldnt make it. He stopped after 100 miles in Kennebunk and charged for two hours. But there was no hurrying it and after another 100 miles he was off the highway desperately searching for another charging station. The station he found was feeble and took another hour of charging just to allow him to limp the last 10 miles home.

[Jefecinco]

EV charging networks require careful advance planing before travel,

[jimh]

My friend/neighbor recently bought a Rivian truck..

Thanks for the comments about the significant decrease in range in the electric RIVIAN truck when it was tasked with towing a boat and trailer with a load of 3,500-lbs. That is certainly a big consideration for using an electric truck for towing on the highway for long distances.

ASIDE: I first became familiar with RIVIAN from the use of their prototype trucks in the very interesting documentary about travel by motorcycle from the tip of South America to Los Angeles, LONG WAY UP. ( https://www.longwayup.com ). RIVIAN's engineering and prototype facility is in Plymouth, Michigan, a short distance from me. In recent weeks I have seen several RIVIAN trucks on the local roads.

[dtmackey]

As car company CEOs now admit that the general population isn't adopting electric cars as predicted and scaling back on the agressive plans they had to build new mfg facilities and launch new models. For me an electric car doesn't work since I tow and drive many places where chargers are not available.

Recently my girlfriend rented a car when her car was being services; they only had an electric to offer. She drove up to my house and arrived with 18-percent charge left in the battery, and she was nervous about having enough battery to get home. It was a Polestar (I believe a Volvo offering), so I located the charger cord and plugged into an outside outlet overnight to find that is charger 2-perent-per-hour. In the morning the range was still unimpressive. Since she is a traveling nurse, we had to plot her first visit and then Google charging stations for her to park at during her several visits which was frustrating and a waste of our time.

When she arrived back at her house, she parked at the municipal light and power company to utilize their charger. Not only were the kW-hours expensive, but after midnight, an hourly "parking fee" kicked in, so the next morning the bill was excessive and the car STILL NOT FULLY CHARGED, not to mention the charger location was a 10 minute walk from her house.

I cannot fathom the thought of owning an electric car and fear that we will be forced in this direction by new mandates and laws.

D-

[jimh]

As car company CEOs now admit that the general population isn't adopting electric cars as predicted and scaling back on the agressive plans they had to build new mfg facilities and launch new models...

The only people saying this are the CEOs of legacy US manufacturers, who have found that they cannot build profitable electric vehicles for mass markets. They are trying to sound good to their stock holders. I don't think they are particularly apostles of change toward electric vehicles.

Also, I just had a demonstration ride in a new Ford F-150 LIGHTNING electric pick-up truck. The F-150 LIGHTNING is an impressive vehicle. I believe that its sales are constrained by supply, not demand. This particular truck was ordered several months ago, and was just delivered.

She drove up to my house and arrived with 18-percent charge left in the battery, and she was nervous about having enough battery to get home.

At this moment, long-distance travel with an electric vehicle requires some pre-planning for re-charging away from home. The Tesla charging network is a great asset for the Tesla owner, and with recent agreements with other brands, electric vehicles from other manufacturers will be able to charge at Tesla Super-Charger location. But as it stands now, charging non-Tesla electric vehicles depends on private charging facilities, which are often not particularly convenient, not in working order, and not regulated regarding prices for electricity consumed.

On the other hand, some large retails stores are installing electric vehicle charging stations in their large parking lots. One local large retailer is even providing a further incentive to customers driving an electric vehicle: one hour of free charging while shopping at their store.

Fast charging requires two important elements: a vehicle that can ACCEPT fast charging, and a DC-Fast Charging facility that can deliver the necessary rapid charging current. A modern fast-charging station can supply 500-kW of power to an individual vehicle. In order to have an installation with multiple DC fast charging stations, there must be a fantastically high-power connection to the power grid. Ten vehicles consuming 500-Kw each is 5-MegaWatts of power. This sort of charging will be highly specialized and required service from the local utility at something like 480-Volts AC at over 2,000-Amperes.

[dtmackey]

The only people saying this are the CEOs of legacy US manufacturers, who have found that they cannot build profitable electric vehicles for mass markets. They are trying to sound good to their stock holders. I don't think they are particularly apostles of change toward electric vehicles.

Also, I just had a demonstration ride in a new Ford F-150 LIGHTNING electric pick-up truck. The F-150 LIGHTNING is an impressive vehicle. I believe that its sales are constrained by supply, not demand. This particular truck was ordered several months ago, and was just delivered.

Let's not forget the European and Japanese car companies also agreemeing with the legacy U.S. builders on electric car demand.

The Ford Lightning is a nice truck when used for commuting in an area with chargers. Hook it to a load and range drops to around 100 miles, my friend was an early adoptor of the Lightning and says it's been a major disappointment and towing his boat to the lake was an eye opening experience. Luckily he has large SUV that his wife drives and that is now the vehicle they use when towing.

As I mentioned when my girlfriend drove up in her rented electric car, we Googled charging stations for a quick charge. The closest [charging facility for her non-Tesla vehicle] was two towns away, about a 25 minute drive. No thank you.

D-

[cruisemeister]

I respect the sentiment but wanted to add another perspective, a perspective as ann owner of both a Tesla Model Y Long Range (MYLR) and a VW Touareg. and I understand the electric vehicle (EV) concerns from first-hand experience.

Full electric vehicles are fine as long as you don't:

• drive in cold weather

My MYLR is a tank in the winter with all wheel drive. I can preheat the car remotely with the app (defrost, seat, steering wheel) - very nice! Range is 2/3 of 300 miles mostly due to heating the battery, still plenty for my everyday needs.

• drive in hot weather

The AC works well in hot weather, I use the app to remotely either vent or cool the interior on hot days. Never felt uncomfortable.

• drive up hill

Plenty of torque available uphill; regenerative braking downhill. On long descents battery percentage actually gains. The Touareg cannot do that.

• tow anything

I have towed a small utility trailer for yard waste, no problem; towing my BW Dauntless 16 presents a range hit of roughly 1/3, needing to charge every 90-100 miles; any heavier load and you will need another vehicle, imo; I can reach all the local lakes in Central New York with the MYLR on one charge.

• live on a coastline with salt air

Not sure how that differs to an ICE (internal combustion engine) car

• mind paying twice as much up front

Depends on the model and whether you compare SUV’s or pickup truck’s. Unfortunately there are currently no inexpensive EV’s, plenty in the 45-65k range and some expensive options. Rivian and Cybertruck are more likely in the 100k-120k range. ICE pickups are not exactly cheap either and gas mileage is on the lower side.

• mind paying high insurance rates

My rates on both SUV’s are almost identical

• worry about range anxiety

Most people have to take a bio break after driving 3hrs. Charge stop vs filling up gas stop is identical to me. Teslas onboard user interface supports the driver to manage charging stops. If you want more control, pre plan with an app such as “a better route planner”

• mind taxpayers subsidizing your purchase

The government subsidy is multifaceted. Among the rational is to lessen dependency on oil and to improve the quality of public life e.g. no emissions in your favorite neighborhood.

All that said, towing with a Tesla MYLR is doable. The cybertruck will be pricey but expands the towing capacity. Expect to see them at the boat ramp in the future. Folks that want to tow large trailers without spending big bucks probably will stick to a ICE pickup truck. In the end it comes down to what driving needs one has and how to best cover those needs. The Tesla brings my family a lot of joy.

[jimh]

The Ford Lightning is a nice truck when used for commuting in an area with chargers. Hook it to a load and range drops to around 100 miles...

There is nothing unique or different about the change in range of an electric vehicle when towing a heavy load than the same situation with an internal combustion vehicle when it tows a heavy load. Both the electric vehicle and the internal combustion vehicle have to produce more energy to tow a heavy load than they needed to produce when NOT towing a heavy load. There should be NO SURPRISE that this occurs IN BOTH SITUATIONS.

For example, my 1995 GMC Suburban with 5.7-liter V8 engine can get about 18-MPG when running by itself. but when towing my boat, its fuel economy drops to about 10-MPH. This is a decrease of the fuel economy by a factor of 0.55 or stated in percent, a decrease of 55-percent. To convert into range, we have to include the fuel tank capacity, which in the case of my truck is 44-gallons. Let's call the useful capacity 40-gallons, and now we compute the range for not-towing and towing:

Conventional Internal Combustion Tow Vehicle; 1995 GMC Suburban
NOT TOWING
40-gallons x 18-MPG = 720-mile range
TOWING
40-gallons x 10-MPH = 400-mile range

A 400-mile range when towing is only 0.55 or 55-percent of the range when NOT towing.

With electric vehicles, the effect of the heavier load on the range of the is about the same, that is, the range when towing is about 55-percent of the range when not towing, and perhaps as low as 50-percent.

In the case of a FORD F-150 LIGHTNING, the typical range figure for not towing is about 350-miles, and the range when towing will then be about 175-miles if we use a figure of a 50-percent drop.

Generally when I am towing a heavy trailer, I am driving about 60-MPH maximum, so my average speed is going to be about 50-MPH. Now we can compute the available driving time before needing to re-fuel.

For the GMC Suburban, 400-miles at 50-MPH is 8-hours.

For the F-150 LIGHTNING< 192-miles at 50-MPH is 3.84-hours.

Now before you say, "Hey you can drive twice as far in the old GMC than with the new F-150 LIGHTNING", I have to point out that I cannot drive more than about three hours towing a trailer before I need to take break. I am going to need to stop, get out of the vehicle, use a rest area bathroom, and take a short walk to refresh myself.

Also, when I am towing a heavy load with the old GMC, I NEVER fill the fuel tank to full. The weight of 40-gallons of gasoline (at 6.25-lbs per gallon) is 250-lbs, and all of that added weight is going onto the rear axle. With the boat trailer hitched up, a full vehicle fuel tank pushes the rear axle weight load close to the maximum allowed. For that reason, I prefer to not tow with a full tank, and this reduces my effective range accordingly.

If using an electric tow vehiclle, and if there were a suitable charging facility available, I would just pull into one of those facilities with the electric vehicle, plug in for charging, and then take my bathroom break, take a walk, and maybe add a 15-minutes to the stop to let the charger add more energy to the battery. buy a coffee, maybe a snack. and take a break.

I have pulled my boat trailer on some long trips. The longest one was a four-day 2,400-mile drive from Detroit to Washington State (and repeated on the way back home). As you can see, to do this in four-days means driving 600-miles each day, and at an average of 50-MPH that means 12-hours of driving. That was the absolute limit for endurance, using two drivers. And there were many stops for bathrooms, food, and fuel. And I was a lot younger when I did that than I am now.

At 10-MPG the 4,800-mile trip consumed 480-gallons of gasoline. But at the time of that trip (2003), highway gasoline was available at $2-per-gallon. I see the cost of gasoline on the west coast is much higher now, maybe $6-per-gallon, and approaching $4-per-gallon in the Midwest. Let us use $5-per-gallon average cost for gasoline today. To make that trip today would mean about $2,400 in gasoline. Ouch.

The argument that the range of an electric vehicle drops when towing a heavy trailer is not a convincing argument, because the same thing happens with an internal combustion engine. The only real difference is that you can pump gasoline into the fuel tank faster than you can push electrical energy into a vehicle storage battery. But that is today's technology. I expect that advances in electric vehicle batteries, advances in charging technology, and expansion of publicly available recharging station will all tend to reduce the amount of time required for electric vehicles to dwell at a charging station to get a significant boost in their stored electrical energy. Can you do all that today in every state on every road, of course not. But do not think the infrastructure for electric vehicle charging is going to remain as it is in 2023 forever.

There will be one very significant difference with recharging with an electric tow vehicle compared to an internal combustion tow vehicle: the ability to re-fuel while maintaining the connection to the trailer. At a typical gasoline station, it will generally be possible to approach the fuel pump with the trailer still attached to the towing vehicle. In some cases, there may be a delay due to waiting for both pumps at a fueling lane to be available, but the wait time typically should not be excessive.

In the case of electric vehicle recharging stations, their current design seems to require that the electic vehicle back into the charging space, and this, of course, would mean the trailer would have to be unhitched. That would be a significant inconvenience when towing a large boat trailer. Exactly where you could easily disconnect from the trailer and park it unattended would have to be a consideration in the design of the charging facility. I have not read any informed discussions of this problem in the electric vehicle community.

At the moment, the use of an electric vehicle to tow a boat seems to imply making a trip end-to-end, without any recharging along the way, unless you are willing to unhitch the trailer, park the trailer somewhere else, and use the charging stations as designed for one slot in a row charging stations.

I anticipate that with an increase of large electric trucks on the highways, there will be charging stations created that permit recharging large trucks while their trailers are still attached.

[kladd]

We need to lower our expectations.

[Moderator's note. I am not sure what expectations are being cited, but perhaps the intention is to suggest boaters should lower their expectations for electric vehicle range when towing heavy trailers].

[RichS]

I agree 100% with jimh and cruisemeister.

I have a 2013 Ford Escape and a 2021 Tesla Model Y Performance. Both are rated to tow 3,500-lbs. Until this year, I used the Escape to tow my 1988 Outrage and trailer that weighs 3,000-lbs.

In Spring 2023 spring I started towing with the Tesla and the difference is amazing. The acceleration and braking is way better than the Escape. I can't imagine a hill that would be a problem. The Tesla weighs about 200-lbs more than the Escape, but the brake calipers and brake rotors are way bigger.

The trailer is single-axle with no brakes which was borderline with the Escape but no problem with the Tesla.

I have to admit that I have no experience yet towing long distances, but from my research, I think jimh's estimate of a 50% loss in range is fairly accurate.

The usable fuel capacity of the Escape is about 12-gallons. At my 23-MPG fuel economy average, the range is 276 miles.\

Tesla optimistically claims 303 miles of range for the Model Y Performance on a full charge. I usually charge to about 80 to 85%, so my range is about 250 miles or about 10-percent less than the Escape. If towed a longer distance I don't think there would be a big difference in the number of stops.

Although it does take longer to charge compared with adding with fuel, that difference is decreasing rapidly with improved batteries and charging. Some newer models of electric vehicles can charge faster [than existing models] and change to 100% capacity with little worry about battery deterioration.

I've put 34,000 miles on the TESLA Model Y in two and half years, and I have made many road trips. The longest was from Eastern Long Island, New York, to Robbinsville in far western North Carolina--about 2000 miles round-trip. We never had a problem finding a Tesla charger, and the inn in Robbinsville had just installed overnight chargers. I wouldn't buy any electric vehicle today that isn't compatible with Tesla chargers as they are way more numerous and reliable than any others.

For charging an electric vehicle towing a trailers, some Tesla Supercharger locationssome have a charger that when backing in would be at the side instead of the rear of vehicle and trailer. Also I think longer charge cords are coming soon. There is room for improvement here.

Comparing electrical power recharging to gasoline refueling, charging the car on my 240-VAC 50-Ampere home charger cost about 70% less per mile than the Escape. When using the Tesla Superchargers the cost averages about 45% less.

So far no one has mentioned the lack of needed maintenance [need with electric vehicles]--no oil changes, no tune ups, no transmission or exhaust repair. And brakes can last over 100,000 miles. The number of moving parts in an electric vehicle is a tiny fraction of those in an internal combustion vehicle.

The price of a Tesla Model Y Long Range All Wheel Drive I think is now in the $40,000 to $50,000 dollar range, minus government credits, or not much different than many mid size SUVs.

I'm a 73 year old drag racer from the 1960's, and 1970's. I've had and worked on many hot cars--Corvettes, Firebirds, etc--and this TESLA Model Y blows them all away. The TESLA corners flat because of the low center of gravity, it will do 0-to-60-MPH in 3.5 seconds, tows my boat, and has a lot of storage room.

Whether you believe in global warming or not, technology is moving beyond internal combustion.

I promise you that I'm not a Tesla employee, and that other than this car, I have no connection with them.

[jimh]

RICHS--thank you for the first-hand report on your experience with towing a boat trailer with your TESLA Model Y.

You did not mention any observation of decrease in range due to the heavier towing load. Do you happen to have any firsts-hand observations you can share on that element of the discussion?

[RichS]

JIMH-- this season my towing distance per trip has been between 5 and 24 miles. I don't think this is far enough to provide any meaningful range loss data. My best estimate would be a 50% loss. With the rapidly increasing popularity of electric vehicles, an on line search for towing with a variety EVs will get you a lot of useful information on range loss and more.

[jimh]

RICHS--I tried your suggested search (using Google and the search term "towing with a variety EVs") but I did not find the results to be particularly informative. Most comments were pure speculation and contained very little information about towing heavier trailer loads as will be needed for towing boats of 18-feet or larger, that is, total trailer weights of around 3,500-lbs or more.

[Tom Hemphill]

A Google search for "towing effect on ev range" returns some decent results, including a Consumer Reports article, How Well Can an Electric Pickup Truck Tow?. Their testing (of trucks towing a heavy trailer) showed a range loss of over 40%.

[jimh]

TOM—thank you for the link to further information about reduced range for battery-operated vehicles when towing heavy loads. The cited article is right on the target of this discussion. A specific article or specific search phrase always works better than suggesting to “search” for more information.

The Consumer Reports test set-up used a very heavy, 10,000-lbs box trailer with a terrible aerodynamic profile. The reduction in range was dramatic, as would be expected, because much greater energy was required to pull the trailer due to its weight and air resistance. The F-150 LIGHTNING truck’s imputed range was 91-miles, a reduction of 71-percent from the manufacturer’s claimed range of 320-miles.

Accepting the test method of imputing the towing range as accurate, the data implies the amount of energy consumed in the towing test was 3.5-times greater than the amount of energy consumed in the manufacturer stated range test.

To convert this to an internal combustion engine, if the specified MPG for a vehicle was 25-MPG and it had a 20-gallon fuel capacity, the range would be 500-miles. If the heavy towing test conditions were the same, 3.5-times more energy would be needed to complete the test, and 70-gallons of fuel would be needed, reducing the fuel economy to 7.1-MPG. The stated range on one tank of fuel (20-gallons) would reduce to 142-miles, a reduction in the range by 71-percent, just as occurred in the F-150 test.

This comparison is based on an assumption that the total weight (truck and trailer) was the same for both internal combustion and electric vehicle tests. If the vehicles were not the same weight, the outcome would be skewed to favor the lighter truck.

The highway speed maintained was rather high, 65-MPH. Drag from air resistance increases significantly with speed at an exponential (not linear) rate, adding to the requirement of greater energy being consumed.

I would characterize the test as almost a worst case. About the only greater difficulty that could have been considered for the test would have been long, steep, uphill towing, but in the local area of the test (Connecticut), there are not many huge elevation changes.

The article also mentioned (somewhat obliquely) the concern for the ability to find a charging station that could permit the truck and trailer to remained hitched together while the charging was taking place, which was noted as “logistics.”

The test would have been more useful if the exact same test and same assumptions were used to test an internal combustion towing vehicle, and that data were provided. If that were done, I would expect the Laws of Physics would have caused the manufacturer claimed vehicle range would decrease in a similarly dramatic change.

ASIDES

I am surprised the Consumer Report article was available to read and was not behind a pay wall.

Manufacturers of all vehicles, electric or internal combustion, always employ the most favorable circumstances to make possible the highest MPG or range figures. Here is an anecdotal example.

I own a particular Ford sedan, and at about 40,000-miles the tires needed replacement. The dealer was promoting a sale on tires, and I asked the service manager for a quote. The OEM Michelin tire was quoted at $320. I then sought a quote from a tire retailer. They did not have the OEM tire in stock, but their price for that tire was the same as the dealer price. The tire retailer suggested an alternative tire, the same size, same Michelin brand, same quality, but with the price much lower, about $200. I bought those tires.

Later I was discussing this with a good friend, a retired Ford automobile engineer. I asked him why Ford used that specific OEM Michelin tire. His response was very interesting: the reason was very likely because the vehicle fuel economy would be improved by that particular tire, and vehicle manufacturers will do almost anything to improve the fuel fuel economy rating to meet government imposed restrictions. Even a 1-MPG improvement in fuel economy is significant when multiplied by several hundred-thousand vehicles. Checking back on the Michelin website found that the OEM tire was noted for better fuel economy, while the alternative tire I bought was noted for better traction.

This approach is particularly true for electric vehicles and their aerodynamic form. TESLA has been promoting the replacement of side view mirrors with electronic cameras in order to eliminate aerodynamic drag from the mirror housings. Displays inside the passenger compartment would show the camera view to the side and rear to the driver. Current laws insist on use of mirrors. Reduced aerodynamic drag is also sought in components like wheel covers.

[Mambo Minnow]

I hedged my bet and bought a Ford F-150 PowerBoost hybrid in 2021 to tow my Whaler.

[jimh]

I hedged my bet and bought a Ford F-150 PowerBoost hybrid in 2021 to tow my Whaler.

Did the hybrid F-150 truck qualify for a federal refund of $7,500 under its program to encourage adoption of electric vehicles?