Method of Indicating Federal Hull Identification number

[msteinkampf]

[Moderator's note: This topic has been separated from another discussion regarding interpretation of the HIN for a particular boat. This new topic, questioning the time frame when Boston Whaler began to use molded-in HIN numbers is a very interesting topic and deserves its own separate thread.]

Jimh wrote:
A boat made in c.1988 would have been required to have a molded-in federal HIN number on the transom. The requirement to have an etched HIN or a molded-in HIN was created in 1983, so a 1988 boat, to be legal, should have such a molded-in or etched number, not a metal tag.

I beg to differ - a molded-in HIN is not required. Note the sentence in paragraph (c) from the regulation 33 CFR § 181.29 quoted below:

33 CFR § 181.29 - Hull identification number display.

§ 181.29 Hull identification number display.
Two identical hull identification numbers are required to be displayed on each boat hull.

(a) The primary hull identification number must be affixed—

(1) On boats with transoms, to the starboard outboard side of the transom within two inches of the top of the transom, gunwale, or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest...

(b) The duplicate hull identification number must be affixed in an unexposed location on the interior of the boat or beneath a fitting or item of hardware.

(c) Each hull identification number must be carved, burned, stamped, embossed, molded, bonded, or otherwise permanently affixed to the boat so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious. If the number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area. [Emphasis added] A hull identification number must not be attached to parts of the boat that are removable.

(d) The characters of each hull identification number must be no less than one-fourth of an inch high

.
Cf.: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/181.29:

"If the number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area."

My 1990 Montauk 17 has the HIN on an aluminum plate riveted to the stern on the starboard side. Boston Whaler continued to use this identification method until the mid-1990s, when they transitioned to molding the HIN into the hull.

M

[jimh]

My 1990 Montauk 17 has the HIN on an aluminum plate riveted to the stern on the starboard side. Boston Whaler continued to use this identification method until the mid-1990s, when they transitioned to molding the HIN into the hull.

My 1990 Boston Whaler boat has the federal HIN molded into the hull on the transom, as specified in the regulations, so this contradicts your statement. On the other hand, on my 1987 REVENGE 20 W-T the HIN was on a metal tag riveted on the transom.

For a while Boston Whaler operated two factories, their original in Massachusetts and a new plant in Florida. Certain models were made in one plant, and some other models perhaps made in the other plant. Perhaps for certain models, and perhaps for models being made in very high volume, the method of incorporating the federal HIN might favor using the non-molded-in method. Not molding-in the HIN would speed up the process of making a hull, as the metal tag could be created and attached after the hull was out of the mold and mated to its liner and filled with foam.

Also, perhaps the laminate schedule on some lighter hulls might not have been sufficiently thick to create the HIN in relief in the hull.

The plant in Edgewater, Florida, was acquired in 1987. The plant in Rockland, Massachusetts remained in operation until 1994, and then all production was consolidated into the Edgewater plant. For about seven years Boston Whaler was producing boats in two location.

[msteinkampf]

Just before my previous post, I had spent some time looking at Boston Whaler boats for sale on Boat Trader. Of the 1,781 Whalers listed, there were 146 with photographs of the stern for the model years 1967 to 2005. The boat sizes ranged from 11 feet to 32 feet. For the seven boats that were listed as model years 1967-1972, no HINs were visible. There were no 1973 or 1974 boats listed, but all three of the 1975 Whalers listed had metal HIN tags on the port side between the bow/ski eye and the engine. The starboard HIN tag first appeared on two 1977 boats, but there continued to be HIN tags on the port side through 1984.

There were no 1985 boats listed, but all 39 boats of model years 1986 to 1995 had metal HIN tags on the starboard stern. =

Here is a 1990 Revenge 22 with a metal tag.

Fig. 3. A photograph of a a boat said to be a 1990 by an on-line seller with what appears to be a metal tag on transom.

1990BWHINMetalTag.jpg (17.62 KiB) Viewed 2350 times

Beginning with the 1996 and 1997 models, there was either a metal HIN tag, an orange stripe on the starboard stern that I suspect is a molded-in HIN with a different color gelcoat, or what appears to be a molded-in HIN of the same color as the hull (although same-color embedded HINs were difficult to discern on some of the photos).

This orange HIN was found on a 13-foot, a 17-foot, and a 20-foot hull. Here is the best example I encountered of this "orange HIN".

Fig. 4. A photograph of a boat said to be a 1996 DAUNTLESS 13 which seems to show a section of the hull where the HIN would be located is in a contrasting color, perhaps orange and is perhaps a molded-in HIN.

OrangeStripeHIN .jpg (29.97 KiB) Viewed 2347 times

You can also see what looks like an orange HIN on a 13 Alert Dive Boat here:

https://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage28.html.

Although the model year is not mentioned in the description, I suspect that it is a 1996 or 1997. After 1997, an orange HIN was seen on only one of 22 boats examined, but metal HIN tags continued to be used up through the 2000 model year. Here is an example of a metal HIN tag on a model year 2000.

Fig. 5. A boat said to be a 2000 model year with what appears to be a metal HIN tag,

2000 BW w metal HIN tag.jpg (118.09 KiB) Viewed 2371 times

After model year 2000, all HINs were molded in using gelcoat the same color as the hull.

A few additional points:

Obviously, I didn’t get to inspect these boats in person, and I had to rely on the owner descriptions of the model year. Very few boats had the hull stencil number displayed.

Classic Whalers that were listed as “completely restored” or “totally redone” or which had clearly non-factory hull colors seldom had visible HIN tags.

As noted above, for Boston Whalers of model years 1986 and 1995, all the boats I reviewed had metal HIN tags. I was unable to identify any Boston Whaler before model year 1996 that I thought might have a molded-in HIN, but I don’t dispute that they exist. Based on my review, Boston Whaler transitioned to molded-in HINs starting in 1996, and this transition period took about four years.

Since I only had one 1990 boat on my review list (plus one that I own), I did a Google search for “1990 Boston Whaler” images and found 12 additional boats with transoms visible. Two had been repainted or “completely redone” and had no HINs visible. The other ten (1 Revenge, 3 Outrage, 1 Newport 17, and five Montauk 17) all had metal HIN tags on the starboard stern.

M

[jimh]

That Boston Whaler continued to use a metal tag that was riveted to the hulls as the method of complying with regulations that required the HIN to be “bonded” and to be “permanently affixed” to the hull and to exhibit "scarring or...damage...if removed" and did this well past the change in federal regulations that took place in 1983 is said to be demonstrated by the photos seen above. Although none of the photos show the actual HIN or the designated year of production, it seems reasonable to accept the year of production for those hulls to be as claimed by the sellers of those boats in their advertisements.

The inference that can be made from the several photographs is that after 1983 Boston Whaler most likely adopted the required new numbering format for the hull identification number, but they did not immediately abandon the use of metal tags attached with rivets on some hulls they made.

As for the orange gel coat color in use for the molded-in HIN, I would have to see a much more detailed photo-image to be certain of that method.

Perhaps readers who own a Boston Whaler boat with a molded-in federal hull identification number in orange gel coat could provide a closer view of such a HIN. I honestly do not recall hearing of this before.

ASIDE: this discussion has made me begin to doubt my earlier statement that the HIN on my 1990 boat was molded into the gel coat. I can't get to the boat until Spring, as it is locked away in winter storage about 270-miles away. But I will certainly look at the HIN and report my observations. Also, looking at some of my own photographs of boats whose model year I am familiar with, I also see metal tags on boats newer than 1983 used for the HIN.

[msteinkampf]

Here are other examples of the "orange HIN" that I encountered:

Fig. 6. A boat believe to be a 1997 model year boat with what is said to be a molded-in HIN using orange gel coat resin.

OrangeHIN4.jpg (7.76 KiB) Viewed 2313 times

Fig. 7. A boat that is said to be a 1997 model year and to have an orange molded-in HIN number.

OrangeHIN2.jpg (3.24 KiB) Viewed 2312 times

Fig. 8. A boat said to be a 1999 model year with what is claimed to be a molded-in HIN using orange gel coat resin.

OrangeHIN3.jpg (3.3 KiB) Viewed 2311 times

[jimh]

The examples seen in newly added Figures 6, 7, and 8 are very small images and really are not sufficient to even determine what is being seen. To get to the bottom of the claim of use of orange gel coat resin to mold-in a HIN number on a Boston Whaler boat, photographs of higher resolution that clearly show a HIN number that can be decoded to a particular year and identifying a Boston Whaler boat are needed.

The illustrations seems to sorta, kinda, show some part of the transom or an attachment to the transom in a contrasting color from the hull gel coat resin and not with a particularly metallic look, but please let us have a better view of this method used by Boston Whaler.

[msteinkampf]

HIN tags on early "banana hull" Outrage models were mounted vertically on the port side of the transom. Here are some examples.

Fig. 9. This very poor resolution image is said to show a vertically oriented HIN on the port side of a 1977 OUTRAGE 21 boat.

Outrage21_1977HIN.jpg (9.33 KiB) Viewed 2275 times

Fig. 10. This very poor resolution image is said to show a HIN tag mounted on the port side of thetransom pf 1974 OUTRAGE 21.

Outrage21_1974HIN tag.jpg (8.97 KiB) Viewed 2275 times

Fig. 11. This very poor resolution image is said to show the holes in the transom where once a HIN tag was installed on a 197 OUTRAGE 21.

Outrage21_1975NoHIN.jpg (4.8 KiB) Viewed 2275 times

[msteinkampf]

I agree with your sentiments about the suboptimal quality of these photos, but it is a matter of reproducing a thumbnail image at even lower resolution. The best I can provide is a cropped image of the clearest shot I found of the "orange HIN". Hopefully there are some owners of 1996-1997 Whalers who will be able to provide more detailed images.

Fig. 12. Best known photo of a molded-in HIN using orange resin.

Orange HIN zoom.jpg (22.71 KiB) Viewed 2308 times

[jimh]

Regarding the photographs which are said to shown HIN placement on c.1970 OUTRAGE boats, the quality has become even worse. About all that is seen are faint blobs of contrasting colors or empty holes. Photo-evidence of the method of attachment or indication of the federal HIN would be much better achieved with some higher resolution and better focused images.

Regarding where Boston Whaler might have place the hull identification number on the hulls of OUTRAGE 21 boats made in the 1970's, one must view them with regard to the federal regulations in effect at that time. In order to do that one, would have to research the exact language of the regulations that were in place then. The introduction of federal hull identifications numbers came about with the passage of the Federal Safe Boating Act of 1971. I invite readers to conduct this research into the initial provisions of the federal regulations. The use of a vertical orientation to the metal tag is interesting, but whether or not the regulations stipulated a certain orientation is unknown to me. Again, some research will need to be done. (I am not particularly interested or inclined to pursue this further myself.) I do note that there is no explicit requirement that the tag must be oriented horizontally, even in the current regulation language.

In the case of the OUTRAGE 21 hulls, the concept of the "transom" is quite interesting. The transom can be considered to be the area where the outboard engine is mounted, and on the OUTRAGE 21 the transom is recessed into the hull by a foot or so.

That a HIN tag was attached to Port of centerline on the transom is also well known, and not limited to just a few c.1970's OUTRAGE 21. The metal HIN tag on Port side of transom has been reported by many owners of Boston Whaler boats.

[jimh]

A further problem with the compliance to the federal regulations (as excerpted above) regarding criteria that the method of identification of the hull must possess is the notion that the identification can be "stamped" in place. I suspect that this might be the basis for Boston Whaler using some pre-printed characters on their metal tags to compose portions of the HIN identification.

As has been often discussed, those inked or printed (or "stamped") characters are very far from permanent markings, and there are many cases of a metal tag on a Boston Whaler boat transom having none of those inked or printed or stamped characters still visible after a passage of several decades. The absence of some characters in the HIN has created much ambiguity in the interpretation of the HIN.

Perhaps the federal government administrative authority which oversees the HIN regulations may have informed boat builders of the need to make more refinements in their attachment of the HIN in a permanent manner, which has now resulted in the mostly universal use of molded-in HIN numbers on the transom on the starboard side in a horizontal manner and about two-inches below the top of the transom.

Exactly when Boston Whaler came into better compliance by using the molded-in method for display for the HIN is still to be precisely determined. What has been reasonably shown is that by 1983 Boston Whaler were not done using metal tags.

[msteinkampf]

I agree with Jim that relying on the claim of an owner to determine the model year of a boat is a dubious proposition, especially if that boat is for sale, so I respectfully suggest that anyone who wants to post information about a particular style or location for their HIN tag in this discussion include a photo of the tag that has sufficient clarity to show the model/production year and the location of the tag. A photo of the stencil serial number of the hull would also be appreciated. I’ll start with my own boat, a Montauk 17 that I purchased new from Pellegrin Marine in Houma, Louisiana, on November 5, 1990. The bill of sale specifies that this is a 1990 model. Here are photos of the HIN tag, which is located on the starboard transom, and the stencil serial number of the hull. The HIN tag confirms that this boat is a 1990 model that was produced in May of 1990.

Fig. 13. HIN tag on the starboard transom of my 1990 Montauk 17.

MPS HIN.jpg (90.22 KiB) Viewed 2127 times

Fig. 14. Stencil number 1990 MONTAUK 17

stencilNumber 1990MONTAUK17.jpg (17.7 KiB) Viewed 2104 times

Additional photos showing the location of the HIN tag on my boat can be found here: https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewto ... cro#p45599

[ALAN G]

I owned a 1990 Revenge 22 for about 10 years but sold it in 2019. The hull number, BWC5H823G990, was on a metal tag riveted to the upper starboard transom. Here is a pic:

Fig. 15. Metal HIN tag on 1990 REVENGE 22

1990REVENGE22_.jpeg (22.65 KiB) Viewed 2101 times

[ALAN G]

I currently own a 1973 Outrage 19. The hull number is engraved on the transom in the upper port side. The number BWCA81730373 is shown in this pic:

Fig. 16. Federal HIN number molded into hull for 1972 OUTRAGE 19.

moldedHIN.JPG (10.16 KiB) Viewed 2106 times

The hull stencil is shown:

Fig. 17. Hull stencil number

stencilNumber.JPG (14.06 KiB) Viewed 2107 times

[msteinkampf]

Thanks for posting those HINs Alan. I thought that HIN application had progressed from metal tags (up through about 1995), transitioning to molded-in numbers in 1996, but you have disproven that. I just found a 1973 Sport 13 with a molded-in HIN on the starboard side.

Fig. 18. Molded-in HIN on starboard transom of a 1973 Sport 13.

HIN 1973Sport13.jpg (33.3 KiB) Viewed 2108 times

(Original photo here: https://www.culversportsidemarina.com/i ... -12146695i)

But here is a 1978 Montauk 17 with a metal tag on the port side.

(Original photo here: https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1978-bo ... k-8975899/)

M

Fig. 19. 1978 Montauk 17 with corroded metal HIN tag on port transom.

corrodedHIN.jpeg (28.87 KiB) Viewed 2108 times

[jimh]

The molded-in HIN number seen in Figure 16 for c.1973 hull looks like it was done with a Dymo Tape Label printer. But I am trying to figure out how the process was accomplished. The hull is molded in a female contact mold, so the plastic tape must have been stuck inside the mold for the number to appear on the boat hull take out of the mold. However, the adhesive on the tape would have been on the wrong side, as to get the numbers to read out corrected the plastic tape with the raised letter side would have to have been affixed to the mold surface.

The metal tag HIN seen in Figure 15 has me wondering if my recollection of the HIN on my 1990 REVENGE 22 was actually molded in or if it was a tag.

Here is a metal tag HIN from a 1976 SPORT 15 that was for sale about a half-mile from me this summer. The tag was on the Port side of the hull transom.

Fig. 20. A metal tag hin on the transom of a 1976 SPORT 15.

c1976MetalTagHIN.jpeg (101.15 KiB) Viewed 2093 times

As seen above, the words BOSTON WHALER, INC. were pre-printed onto the federal HIN tag attached to the transom of a 1976 SPORT 15. The manufacturer identity code (MIC) "BWC was pre-printed on the tag, as were the letters "AM" that are part of the production sequence number. The pre-printed elements are still visible, but not particularly clearly legible. This particular boat was a freshwater Great Lakes or inland boat, so the condition of the metal tag is quite good for a 47-year-old boat.

ASIDE: that 1976 SPORT 15 was sitting on the side of the road on a neighbor's front yard, and as I drive by there almost everyday, I think I saw it on the first day it was put there. The boat was gone two days later, and I assume it was sold. It shows how fast you can sell a classic Boston Whaler boat that is a popular model, is in good condition, and is reasonably priced.

[ALAN G]

We are original owners of a 1975 Revenge 19, [with federal HIN] BWCA8801M75A.

Fig. 22.

R19 Serial Number Plate.JPG (60 KiB) Viewed 2078 times

Age has removed the "BWCA" and "M" from view. Plate is mounted on port side upper transom exterior. FYI stencil number is 000681.

Al

[msteinkampf]

JimH wrote:
The molded-in HIN number seen in Figure 16 for c.1973 hull looks like it was done with a Dymo Tape Label printer. But I am trying to figure out how the process was accomplished. The hull is molded in a female contact mold, so the plastic tape must have been stuck inside the mold for the number to appear on the boat hull take out of the mold. However, the adhesive on the tape would have been on the wrong side, as to get the numbers to read out corrected the plastic tape with the raised letter side would have to have been affixed to the mold surface.

Perhaps boat manufacturers are using a tool that can emboss “reverse image” letters into a flexible tape using a character wheel designed for that purpose. Embossing the HIN backwards with reverse image characters, affixing the tape to the hull mold, and then spraying the tape with gel coat after applying the hull-release agent would yield an embedded HIN of the correct orientation. For example, the DYMO M1011 label maker kit includes a reverse image wheel. The M1101 user guide (available here: https://download.dymo.com/dymo/user-guides/Rhino/rhino-m1011-embosser-kit-user-guide.pdf) includes the following statement:

You can also use a Reverse Image Wheel with the DYMO M1011 label maker. This wheel allows you to print mirror script labels that meet special requirements in the industry. Mirror labels are used on moulds or casts for metal or rubber injection, silicon casting, fiber glass applications, and so on.

However, I suspect that hull manufacturers are not using a DYMO M1101 to create their HIN tapes, as that tool employs 1/2-inch-wide tapes with letters that appear to be only about 3/16-inches high, which is smaller than the federally-mandated ¼-inch letter height. For example, the embedded HIN on my 1995 Aquasport Explorer was made with a ¾-inch wide tape, and the letters are 5/16-inches high.

Fig. 23. HIN on a 1995 Aquasport 245 Explorer

HIN on 1995 Aquasport Explorer 245.jpg (123.34 KiB) Viewed 1924 times

DYMO doesn’t list a tool/tape combination that meets those specifications, and I have not been able to find a product online that does. Perhaps someone who knows a fiberglass boat builder can supply this information.
M

[jimh]

msteinkampf--I had speculated that perhaps the DYNO company had made a label die that would imprint the reversed letters as a method of casting an imprint into a mold, but I had not pursed any inquiry with DYNO about that. To hear from your research that there was such a label-making die available is most interesting. Good work.

[Kovar]

I tried to determine the build date of my 1988 SPORT 13. Using the stenciled serial number Boston Whaler was able to provide the correct HIN. On the bill of sale I received when buying the boat the listed HIN was different, perhaps a typographical error. The actual metal HIN tag on the exterior starboard side of the transom was corroded and unreadable.

While recently removing all the wood for refinishing I found another tag attached to the interior of the anchor locker.

Fig. 24. Concealed federal hull identification number. Refer to narrative above for details on location.

IMG_2334.jpeg (23.04 KiB) Viewed 1332 times

As it was on the [aft] portion of the locker, it was not in my line of view when accessing the hold. The tag is riveted and is apparently a duplicate of the one on the stern. The serial number is exactly as indicated by Boston Whaler.

I don't know if this is a common location or if it is usual to have more than one tag.

Sam

[msteinkampf]

The duplicate HIN tag on my 1990 Montauk 17 is in the same location. See here for some discussion of duplicate or "hidden" HINs: https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7600&p=44288&#p44288

M

[Kovar]

I guess [my 1988 SPORT 13 boat has the concealed second federal hull identification located] in the usual spot.

[jimh]

I don't know if…it is usual to have more than one tag.

Federal regulations—which are quoted in the first article that begain this thread—compel boat builders to install a second HIN tag in a concealed location, which is typically not publicly revealed.

[msteinkampf]

Out of curiosity, I emailed Boston Whaler Customer Service to inquire what tool was used to generate the HIN tag for their hulls. I received the following reply:

Unfortunately, as with other aspects of our tooling and techniques, this is proprietary production information which we are unable to release.