Inner Hull Foam Repair

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
mestubbe1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:15 am

I have a 1993 15' Dauntless that after a recent trip from Texas to Canada (I've done the trip 15 times now) and back, I noticed that when running out on the water, "The Other Woman" as she is named, was sounding a bit deeper in the voice.

After doing a good deal of inspecting the outer hull, which is in great shape, I removed the dri-dek that I have over the floor and found that I didn't have a couple soft spots, it seemed like the whole floor was de-laminated. Remembering that up in Canada we hit a couple bad bumps on the road, I suspect that it was the death of the foam, and maybe the boat after 25 years.

I had a marine surveyor here near Dallas come over and confirm my suspicions.

Now we all know that the strength of a Whaler is that inner foam structure, and the very last thing we want to do is cut out the tub and re-foam the whole hull and glass it all back together.

I'll give you a heads up on a product (and normally I wouldn't provide a testimonial, but I came across a two-part injectable called "Injectadeck". http://injectadeck.com", and does this stuff work!

I was loath to drill (almost 40) ¼" holes in the floor, but I did. And I'm glad I did.

Last night I drilled all the holes, taped all around them (if you think you put enough tape around the hole, double or triple it, this foam really expands.

This morning just after sunrise while it was still in the mid-seventies (it gets awful hot here in Texas) I started injecting. This stuff really did the trick. In one or two spots (Aft of the Seat and forward of the transom) this foam found some serious pockets of rot and moisture (and the foam just eats it up) and boiled a couple huge (10" round by 8" high) piles of nasty stuff right out the ¼" hole and deposited it in a clump.

Its now been an hour, and I'm already walking on the floor, and using a rubber mallet to check for any more void pockets, and I haven't found any.

So at the end of the day, when you suspect your Whaler has seen its last voyage, don't despair there is a decent product (not widely known yet) but it works.

This weekend I'm going to clean up the floor, re-coat it (I use Durabak 18) and I should be back on the water by Tuesday.

jimh
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby jimh » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:33 am

Do you have any digital images of your repair that could be viewed?

mestubbe1
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 pm

I will post them shortly I’ll have to resize them so I can upload. The stuff is pretty amazing.

mestubbe1
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:10 pm

So having just finished six weeks of cleanup, gelcoat, repainting the motor, and refinishing the tub floor, and then running it on the water to make sure everything was fine. then taking it to Canada (which started us on the path of the inner hull). Here's some PIX of what she looked like four weeks ago,
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mestubbe1
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:12 pm

And Here's the state she's in right now.
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mestubbe1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:13 pm

And the goal is to get her back to looking like this!
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mestubbe1
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:37 pm

I count 47 drill holes on average 8-inches apart. I used four tubes of the INJECTADECK which is supposed to fill a 30-foot-square area 1-inch-deep per tube.By the calculations I used 10-cubic-feet of foam, with maybe 0.5-cubic-feet of waste that came out.

If I guess that the hull below the deck is 10-feet x 5-feet x 0.5-feet deep as an average--it changes withe the length of the hull--that would mean 25-cubic feet. I replaced roughly 40-percent (or more) of the inner hull foam in 30 minutes, after prep time.

WOW.

If you are going to do this, get the "Franchise Kit" which has six tubes. More updates tomorrow.

KARLOW
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby KARLOW » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:52 pm

I have recently done a similar repair on my Qutrage. My OUTRAGE boat was in poor shape when I got it, and [its soft deck] was a major concern. I had not read of anyone doing this repair [other] than with epoxy. Here is how [my repair was] done:
    --purchase two part polyurethane kit (4lb foam).
    --purchase one or two large syringe
    --locate all of the soft spots
    --cover the whole area with blue painters tape; avoid having the foam touching anything
    --drill holes large enough for the syringe in the soft locations about 6 or 8-inches apart.
Then the fun starts:
    --have some acetone handy to clean up
    --have a disposable measuring cup
    --have and some stirring device for the drill
    --add a few [ounces] of part A and part B [into]the measuring cup
    --stir for about 30 seconds
    --pour into the syringe; use a finger to prevent it from leaking out
    --rapidly add the mix to the holes, attempting to split it evenly
    --refill the syringe with the rest of the mix
    --repeat.

At this point, [a elapsed time of about two minutes] the foam is expanding [and will be curing in seconds]:
    --clean the measuring device with paper towel
    --add a few ounces of acetone to syringe for cleaning.
Now you are ready to repair another section. [After the foam has expanded there] should be snowballs on top of all of the holes in the repaired section. After letting [the foam] cure for an hour or more:
    --remove the tape
    --remove the foam domes.

The next day:
    --counter sink the holes
    --use blue tape around the repair spots
    --fill with thickened epoxy
    --carefully clean up the area with acetone after adding the epoxy.

ASIDE: I'm a member of the hole-in-the floor-gang. There is a section [on my OUTRAGE on] port side near the helm [where] the [deck] had been flexed so much it had cracked. I cut out a 7-inch x 4-inch section. You could see the foam had been compacted about 1/8-inch. That section was my first repair. I let it dry for a few months while I did [other repairs]. The plan was to attach a 1/4-inch-tube and reach very deep under the floor to inject the foam. [This method] failed. I could not get the foam to inject through the 10-inch-log tube. Remember--[the curing time of the foam is] seconds. I discarded the tube and shoved the syringe under floor instead.
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fillman
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby fillman » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:24 pm

Does this method [of repairing the soft deck with introduction of a liquid that cures into foam] push out water that is present?

mestubbe1
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby mestubbe1 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Yes [this process] does [push out water that was present]. [This process] uses the moisture as part of the catalytic foaming process.

I’m working on the last couple things but [the deck is] looking good.

fillman
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:18 pm

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby fillman » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:41 pm

[What is the purpose of the extra holes]?

fillman
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby fillman » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:29 pm

[Are] moisture and water in the plywood [removed by this process]?

jimh
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby jimh » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:20 am

Generally the chemical reaction that produces the foam also creates water. I don't think it consumes water. If water is a catalyst, it would not necessarily be consumed in the reaction.

A simple way to test the theory that the foam's chemical reaction will consume water would be to introduce the liquid two-part mix into a bowl of water. See if the amount of water in the bowl decreased as the foam cured and expanded. You would need a large bowl to permit the expansion of the foam without spilling water from the bowl.

My interpretation of the foam curing process is that there must be a vent, and moisture or water vapor created in the process will be vented outward by the expanding foam. I cannot see how the process of the new foam curing would magically cause water that was saturated into surrounding old foam or old wood to disappear.

jimh
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby jimh » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:22 am

fillman wrote:[What is the purpose of the extra holes]?


What are the "extra holes" you refer to? I don't see any extra holes. It appears that at each hole some liquid was injected and then expanded.

fillman
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:18 pm

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby fillman » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:35 am

[I] was thinking: just drill two [holes], one at the head of the problem and one at the end.

[W]hen [the expanding foam that was introduced in some unexplained method] comes out the end [hole you drilled] the void is full—is that correct?


I want to explore options and ideas. I have 1974 Montauk 17 project boat I'm picking up [on a particular day of the week].

MathewCox
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:01 am

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby MathewCox » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:10 am

I think this foam technique is perfect because it adsorbs the remaining water under the soft deck, the liquid expands at works well for cracks and leaks

jimh
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby jimh » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:15 pm

MathewCox wrote:I think this foam technique is perfect because it adsorbs the remaining water under the soft deck...


I am very confused by your remark.

Do you mean to say that any water in liquid form under the deck is immediately absorbed into the empty air spaces of the foam in the way that a sponge absorbs water?

I don’t see an advantage to the new foam immediately becoming full of water. The general goal with regard to foam is to get water out of the foam. To intentionally put water into the new foam seems like a step backwards.

jimh
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:39 am

Regarding the chemistry of the two-part liquid reagents that combine in a chemical reaction to produce a new compound, a foam or air-entrapping cellular material: there has been an assertion that this chemical reaction consumes water in the transformation of the two reagents into the new compound that is created. I have difficulty understanding this claim. The water molecule is a very stable molecule, consisting of only two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. In order for water to be consumed in a chemical reaction, the reaction would have to break apart the atomic forces holding the hydrogen and oxygen atoms, separating them into free atoms, which could then bond to other atoms and make new compounds.

Water seems like a very stable arrangement of atoms. I don’t see water just being consumed or burned in a chemical reaction. In many chemical reactions water is a product produced by the reaction.

If the two-part foam reagents were poured into a big vat of water, and water was turned into foam, where would all the energy come from to drive water, very stable molecules, to break apart and become this entirely new substance we call foam that cures into a solid?

RichS
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:33 pm

Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby RichS » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:04 pm

Hi all,
I seldom post here, but being a previous part owner of a industrial coatings manufacturing company I thought I could shed some light on the subject.
Check out this site for a good basic description of polyurethane reactions. http://www.wernerblank.com/polyur/learn ... enter1.htm
As you can see, water can definitely take part in these reactions. In fact, there are a whole class of coatings known as single component moisture cure polyurethanes.
My only concern is that in the case of these two part urethane foams, the polyols and/or diols in one component are meant to react with most if not all of the urethane groups in the other component (at the recommended mix ratio). If water enters the picture, it may upset this mix ratio by reacting with some of the urethane thus leaving some unreacted polyol and/or diol. Also, the urethane plus water reaction generates carbon dioxide as a byproduct. This may affect the degree and density of the foam. As a side note, I doubt there would be much draw of water out of semi-saturated plywood, existing foam, etc. I hope this adds some clarity.

dtmackey
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Re: Inner Hull Foam Repair

Postby dtmackey » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:11 pm

I've used the US Composites brand 2 part polyurethane foam on many projects over the years. Selection on density is an important consideration as it comes in 2#, 4#, 8# and 16# depending on the strength needed. I've never heard about the addition of water to assist in a 2 part chemical reaction.

D-