Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Electrical and electronic topics for small boats
porthole
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:09 pm

Now the frustrating part. Shortly after making the above connections to illustrate here, I lost the connection.
I tried multiple ways and two different GoFree apps to no avail.
At times I had 4 devices show up, two each with the same IP address.

Image

Then sometimes only one would show up.

Image

Then sometimes the app would just go into a continuous search and not display any device.

Image

Even though my HDS devices were connected on the network, the app refused to make another connection.
1st shot is my network map ( I had turned off the HDS9 by this time)
2nd shot is the file access across the network for the HDS7, showing that it is in fact available.

Image

Image

I haven't even bothered with Lowrance tech on this, they are so frustrating to deal with.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

porthole
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:26 pm

An update. Apparently my constant emails to Lowrance Tech got someone's attention.
I now have a specific person that will be working with me to try and resolve my problems.

As requested I ran a diagnostic report for each MFD and emailed them to Lowrance.
The report shows 12 errors. Not sure what they all are, but one thing that was odd is one of my sensors on the report displayed an old software version, but on the HDS when checking for software updates i get a message that all software is up to date.

Tech support (TS) emailed me updated software to install.
TS also shipped to me (still waiting) two new 4-ways N2K Tees. There seems to be a problem with at least one of the 4-ways and data communications.

My Point 1 AP also displayed in red on the report. Don't know what that means, but after installing the new 9" HDS I had a lot of problems with trying to get the devices to recognize the Point 1. Eventually I moved the point 1 on the network and got it to work, so I'm guessing at least one of my 4-ways is bad.

Been having problems all summer and today I officially gave up for this season. Washed the boat inside and out, tomorrow I'll fog the engine and put the cover on.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

porthole
Posts: 532
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Mon May 01, 2017 11:17 am

More Lowrance problems! This is really getting to be a drag.

I installed my Simrad GO5. My main goal with the GO5 was to have an independent control for the Lowrance Outboard Autopilot The pilot control using the HDS takes up too much screen real estate.

I turned everything on and once again something does not work. The Point-1AP [GNSS receiver and heading sensor] is not working with any of the devices. The Point-1AP shows up on all three MFD's but never locks onto the satellites.

This picture is after the MFD's have been on for several hours.

The HDS 9 (left) has the Point 1 selected for the source.
The HDS 7 (right) has 'auto-selected' the GO5 for the source.

([The digits] 1237 [seen in the upper center of the image below] is actually a Blue Sea Systems Voltmeter; [the value] is 12.37 volts)

Image
Last edited by porthole on Fri May 05, 2017 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

jimh
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby jimh » Mon May 01, 2017 10:23 pm

Based on the SATELLITES IN VIEW screens shown above, the GPS receiver in the POINT-1 AP is only receiving three satellites. It has managed to establish a pseudorange solution with only two of the signals, which is insufficient to solve for a position fix.

It is unlikely that there is some conflict with networking or firmware. The most reasonable deduction for the cause of the GNSS receiver in the POINT-1 AP device to fail to receive satellites is as follows:

--there is some obstruction blocking reception of a portion of the sky; note how the three satellites that are being received are all in the same quadrant;

--there is some local interference causing the POINT-1 AP GNSS receiver to have reduced sensitivity;

--there is an ERROR in the CONFIGURATION of the POINT-1 AP GNSS; it appears to only be receiving satellites that are part of the GLONASS constellation; check that you have enabled reception of the USA Air Force GPS NAVSTAR constellation; note how all the satellites have NMEA identities in the 70's. GPS satellites would be identified with NMEA (PRN) numbers in the range of 0 to 32.

For help in deducing the meaning of NMEA numbers shown in the satellite in view presentations, see my article on Satellite Identification Numbers.

porthole
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Thu May 04, 2017 12:01 pm

Lowrance email series:

--first email was for information.

--second email was stating they pre authorized a Point 1 to be sent out and were in the process of shipping.

--third email was requesting the serial number (which is under the mounted Point-1AP antenna)

--forth email was "the Point-1AP is not a position device and won't work for what you are trying and perhaps you do not have a clear view of the sky" (The Point-1AP is mounted on the top of a T-Top).

Of course that goes against how I have been using the Point-1AP since I installed it last summer.

I did find the following info on what the difference is between the Point-1 and Point-1AP.

Page 11 of this PDF file from Lowrance:

Point-1 vs Point-1AP
• Point-1
– Has filters built into its software that allows it to output stable data for the HDS to use for heading and data overlays
• Use for Chart in heading up
• Radar/Chart overlay
• Data overlays (COG/SOG)
– While this data is not usable for the NAC-1 outboard pilot it is the preferable source for HDS displays
• Point-1 AP
– Was designed specifically to feed live/unfiltered navigation data directly to the NAC-1 Outboard Autopilot
– Since data such as COG (Course Over Ground) and SOG (Speed Over Ground) are not filtered in the Point-1AP use for features such as heading up, or speed overlay may result unstable chart orientation or rapidly changing speed overlays

I have never noticed any unstable chart orientations or rapidly changing speed overlays.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

jimh
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby jimh » Thu May 04, 2017 12:13 pm

PORT--you are in Lowrance support Hell. I don't know how they could suggest that the POINT-1 AP cannot receive GPS satellites. That makes no sense. It is receiving GLONASS satellites, which is much harder for most of their devices to do.

porthole
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Thu May 04, 2017 12:25 pm

I know. I sent tech support screen shots showing my installation from last spring showing accurate position data and a full sky of satellites.

Their quote:
"Sorry for the confusion, but the Point-1AP is only for heading data it wouldn't act like a Point-1 non-AP. Does your unit have view of the sky? If not you may need to add a Point-1."
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

porthole
Posts: 532
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Fri May 05, 2017 12:00 pm

Screen shot form last spring showing data.

Both screen shots, almost 14 months apart are from the same physical location.

Image
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

jimh
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby jimh » Fri May 05, 2017 1:27 pm

The year-old screen shot shows the POINT-1 AP getting only GPS satellites. Maybe Lowrance gave it an update to include GLONASS satellites, and that put the kibosh on GPS. Have you applied any updater patches to the POINT-1 AP in the last year?

ASIDE: satellite ID 58 is a NMEA number for an SBAS satellite; it converts to PRN 138, a WAAS geostationary satellite in the FAA constellation.

porthole
Posts: 532
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Fri May 05, 2017 1:49 pm

As far as I know, no updates are available for the Point-1AP. Doing a search on lowrance's website with Point-1AP in the search box yields zero results, go figure.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

Acseatsri
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby Acseatsri » Sat May 06, 2017 8:16 am

Just curious, do you find the autopilot tracking is adequate with the Point1-AP? On my boat, it would wander sometimes 20-30 degrees before making a hairpin turn to make an over-correction, totally useless for running offshore. I ended up having to spend $600 on their Precision-9 sensor, a HUGE improvement over the point 1. I would think that the point1 on top of the T-top would make it behave even worse than it did on my dash-mounted point 1.

On the subject of Precision-9, I downloaded an update on the Lowrance website which is no longer on the software update page. Haven't tested the new update yet, but I assume I'll be in the same Lowrance update hell, seeing how the claimed enhancements didn't show up, even though it shows the updated software version.

porthole
Posts: 532
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Sat May 06, 2017 9:13 am

Acseatsri wrote:Just curious, do you find the autopilot tracking is adequate with the Point1-AP? On my boat, it would wander sometimes 20-30 degrees before making a hairpin turn to make an over-correction, totally useless for running offshore. I ended up having to spend $600 on their Precision-9 sensor, a HUGE improvement over the point 1. I would think that the point1 on top of the T-top would make it behave even worse than it did on my dash-mounted point 1.

On the subject of Precision-9, I downloaded an update on the Lowrance website which is no longer on the software update page. Haven't tested the new update yet, but I assume I'll be in the same Lowrance update hell, seeing how the claimed enhancements didn't show up, even though it shows the updated software version.



For the most part I find tracking adequate. Although compared to a Raytheon Autopilot, fed data from a Northstar 952 that I installed back in the mid 90's, it is sub par.

I have on occasions had the boat go into a hard over turn when starting a new course, either a waypoint or heading setting. At times the track line is arrow straight and at other times it is a lazy S. But, as you found and documented in the previous forum software, once you go auto you can't go back.
I'm hesitant to add the Precision 9 for $600 for the same reason I am hesitant to add RADAR. Lowrance, the products and tech support is really leaving me with a bad feeling after the money I have spent.

FWIW, Lowrance tech confirmed to me that the Point-1AP on the T-top would be just fine. Of course this is also the same tech support that just told me I can't use the Point-1AP for position data on my HDS devices, contrary to what I have been doing since last spring.

Did you see my thread on the Simrad GO5 XSE?
I got one for a really good price and did the install for the GO5 to take over the autopilot control and get back the HDS screen real estate.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

porthole
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Tue May 16, 2017 11:26 am

After six days this is the reply I get from Lowrance customer service:
You need to buy a standard Point-1 for general GPS positioning information and send your Point-1AP in for testing. And once he gets that one back DON’T use it for anything other than the Autopilot.
Last edited by porthole on Thu May 25, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

jimh
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Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby jimh » Wed May 17, 2017 5:47 pm

That is the sort of technical support that scares me, too.

If the POINT-1 AP is no longer a GNSS receiver, maybe they should change the product name to HEADING SENSOR FOR AUTOPILOT.

porthole
Posts: 532
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Thu May 25, 2017 1:16 pm

Over a week ago I talked to Level-2 technical support at Lowrance. The technician agreed with me that the previous info was ridiculous and promised to help.

I got an incident number for follow-through and a promise from Lowrance to search for all the emails regarding the problems I have had and currently have.

The tech also had me run support files on the individual MFD's, which you do by going through the menus

SETTINGS --> ABOUT --> SUPPORT

By this path you can generate a .NIF file. You can then add pertinent information, like an incident number, email address and phone number. This information should be embedded in the file. Curiously, the incident number came back as invalid, like it has done every time I have done this in the past.

If you are connected to the internet by WIFI, the reports should automatically be sent. After four hours I still had two of the three reports waiting to go through.

Nothing but crickets since May 17th (today is the 25th)
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

porthole
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: Lowrance HDS Gen3: Installation, Interfacing Tips, and Use

Postby porthole » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:43 am

As of today (07/16/2017) I am going on well over a year with my fuel flow problem and over seven months trying to get my Point-1AP antenna working correctly. Lowrance has to have the poorest customer service in the industry. They really live up to the 'low' portion of their name. Phone calls and emails typically take a week or more to get a response.

And, although I shouldn't be surprised, it turns out the information I got from tech support with interfacing a Simrad GO5 XSE into the system for autopilot control was incorrect. Although the Simrad works quite nicely on its own for AP control, it does so without interfacing as you might anticipate with the HDS units.

The Simrad has GoFree WiFi wireless connectivity and NMEA 2000 network connections. No ethernet. The device is supposed to have waypoint sharing but as of yet I cannot get the waypoints to share.

For autopilot control with waypoints or routes, this means bringing up a waypoint and start autopilot navigating with one of the HDS MFD's.
This in turns activates the AP control on both HDS's as well as the Simrad. The AP control boxes can then be canceled and just use the SImrad for control. Until you want to either suspend or restart the AP navigating with the Simrad.

If you try to restart AP control with the Simrad an error message pops up saying no navigation information is available.

And with all this fancy software, a 'dodge' button still has not been implemented.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200